Why do people believe in the illuminati when there is no evidence that it exists?

If criminals organize in mafia, what makes you think even bigger criminals are not organized? That would be really weird and first time in our history.

sb2012, you are right. Big crimes are being organised all the time. But by other entities. Not illuminati.

Britain instigated Hitler to attack the Soviet Union for example. Did illuminati
instigate the German-Soviet war? No, it was Britain.


In this event of March 1936, by which Hitler remilitarized the Rhineland, was the most crucial event in the whole history of appeasement.

So long as the territory west of the Rhine and a strip fifty kilometers wide on the east bank of the river were demilitarized, as provided in the Treaty of Versailles and the Locarno Pacts, Hitler would never have dared to move against Austria, Czechoslovakia, and Poland.

He would not have dared because, with western Germany unfortified and denuded of German soldiers, France could have easily driven into the Ruhr industrial area and crippled Germany so that it would be impossible to go eastward.

And by this date, certain members of the Milner Group and of the British Conservative government had reached the fantastic idea that they could kill two birds with one stone by setting Germany and Russia against one another in Eastern Europe.

In this way they felt that the two enemies would stalemate one another, or that Germany would become satisfied with the oil of Rumania and the wheat of the Ukraine. It never occurred to anyone in a responsible position that Germany and Russia might make common cause, even temporarily, against the West. Even less did it occur to them that Russia might beat Germany and thus open all Central Europe to Bolshevism.

yamaguchy.netfirms.com...
www.yamaguchy.netfirms.com...


British policy was to direct Germany against Soviet Russia.

Chamberlain was trying to canalise German aggression away from the Western Powers. Hitler had once again been given the green light for aggression in the East. This was how Hitler himself understood the matter: when Britain and Germany did find themselves at war a few weeks later, no-one was more surprised than the 'strategic genius' in Berlin, unless it was Neville Chamberlain.

British policy had only one aim: to cajole, wheedle, guide and direct Germany against Soviet Russia.

www.columbia.edu...


Falsifiers Of History
www.agitprop.org.au...


sb2012's opinion is correct according to Carroll Quigley:

This organization has been able to conceal its existence quite successfully, and many of its most influential members, satisfied to possess the reality rather than the appearance of power, are unknown even to close students of British history.

This is the more surprising when we learn that one of the chief methods by which this Group works has been through propaganda.

It plotted the Jameson Raid of 1895; it caused the Boer War of 1899-1902; it set up and controls the Rhodes Trust; it created the Union of South Africa in 1906-1910; it established the South African periodical The State in 1908; it founded the British Empire periodical The Round Table in 1910, and this remains the mouthpiece of the Group...

www.yamaguchy.netfirms.com...





[edit on 24-6-2007 by Ickey]

One not so secret example - North American Union is being formed without even asking public about it. Not saying Illuminati did it, but it shows how even president and few people from corporations conspire against interests of people. If they can do it, how come some organization dedicated to conspiring is not able to do it also?

If you need proofs about NAU: videos, stopthenau.org ... Google for more.


[edit on 24-6-2007 by sb2012]

There are conspiracies.

Like USA's conspiracy to launch an attack on Iraq for hidden agendas.

Or how USA pushed the Soviet Union into Afghanistan.


Question: The former director of the CIA, Robert Gates, stated in his memoirs ["From the Shadows"], that American intelligence services began to aid the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan 6 months before the Soviet intervention. In this period you were the national security adviser to President Carter. You therefore played a role in this affair. Is that correct?

Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979.

But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely otherwise Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.

www.globalresearch.ca...


But it is governments that have the resources to launch big plots.

Lobby groups that have great influence over government policies can also push their agendas.

Not fictional groups like illuminati.

You are right, but the conspiracies are mostly plotted by governments or lobby groups, not "illuminati".

thats funny. I thought they were the illuminati

[edit on 25-6-2007 by ThaDewd]

You are right, i think most of them are now under CFR and even Jesuits maybe.

Originally posted by Ickey
Skulls and Bones is a "secret" society and there is evidence that it exists.

Bavarian Illuminati group existed once in the 18th century, but it was disbanded.

The so-called "Illuminati" that is propagated mostly on the internet; there is no evidence that it exists.

How about the Bilderbergers, Trilateral Commission, Council on Foreign Relations, Bohemian Grove etc. I would say the list goes on but I am unsure of other front groups, but you get my point.

From what I have gathered about the groups listed about, they are all run by "bluebloods" and or global elite, which are what the "illuminati" are said to be made up of. These are the fronts for the Illuminati. Now if there were a group called the illuminati, do you think that they would just come out into the thick of things and say "Hey here we are the infamous Illuminati"? That is an absurd notion.

If you were trying to control the populous for nefarious purposes, would you really just lay everything out on the tabel at once? No. You would place high ranking members of your organization in roles of power throughout the world.

You may not find concrete evidence that they DO exist, but there are plenty of places which will elude to their existence. this is definitely an uphill battle to prove

Any other points?

Sorry about the edits, adding a link for reference to something remotely concerning the topis at hand..

www.threeworldwars.com...





[edit on 6/25/07 by Don Wahn]

[edit on 6/25/07 by Don Wahn]

I think the main reason people believe The Illuminati don't exist is because they don't actually know what it is.
Adam Weishaupt's school of "Improved" or "Illuminated" Freemasonry espouses a doctrine that we now commonly refer to as "Communism", the group was never totally abolished because they were absorbed into "regular" Freemasonry (by their own admission.)
Brother Weishaupt even had the gall to write his "Appologies for The Illuminati" from relative safety after fleeing from the horrendous mess he created, worse still he and everyone else who slimed away (many to the USA and Russia) failed to see what they had done was truly evil and it seems have managed to create one big cock-up after another every so often down through the next 200 years trying on the same old trick.
The issue is really, that it is so hard to get hold of the various published works in relation to this original germ of World Communism that you get ridiculous "Tomb Raider" style visions of what this belief system is about in the general public.
I've never been able to get hold of Weishaupt's actual works and I've made a significant effort.



[edit on 25-6-2007 by MrNECROS]

How about the Bilderbergers, Trilateral Commission, Council on Foreign Relations, Bohemian Grove etc. I would say the list goes on but I am unsure of other front groups, but you get my point.

Hey how come CFR and Bilderbergers is interpreted as illuminati, Carroll Quigley and William Engdahl does not agree. Wrong info already.


Chatham House had close institutional relations with a number of other similar organizations, especially in the Dominions. It also has a parallel organization, which was regarded as a branch, in New York. This latter, the Council on Foreign Relations, was not founded by the American group that attended the meeting at the Hotel Majestic in 1919, but was taken over almost entirely by that group immediately after its founding in 1919. This group was made up of...

www.yamaguchy.netfirms.com...
www.yamaguchy.netfirms.com...


The Bilderberg annual meetings first began, in utmost secrecy, in May, 1954, by an Anglophile group which included George Ball, David Rockefeller, Dr. Joseph Retinger, Holland's Prince Bernhard, George C. McGhee (then of the US State Department and later a senior executive of Mobil Oil). Named for the place of their first gathering, the hotel de Bilderberg near Arnheim, the annual Bilderberg meetings gathered top elites from Europe and America for secret deliberations and policy discussion. Consensus was then "shaped" in subsequent press comments and media coverage, but never with reference to the secret Bilderberg talks themselves. This Bilderberg process became one of the most effective vehicles of postwar Anglo-American policy-shaping.

earth.prohosting.com...


Wrong information about CFR and Bilderbergers, they are not illuminati.

Must get correct info, wrong info leads to nonsense and fictional groups like illuminati.

www.threeworldwars.com

Another site filled with confused theories and political rantings.

No evidence to back up anything at all.

Don't visit confused websites.

You will get confused.

Don't fall prey easily to propagandists on the internet.

They want to propagate their propaganda to confuse people.

[edit on 26-6-2007 by Ickey]

Surely there are no court verified documents about making Semites kill other Semites but still i see in the news they want to exterminate each other for some stupid reasons, usually it involves piece of crap land and some form of holy book.

In reality it's caused by years or smart manipulation. How come all the events match that letter? Well, maybe some evil dude predicted it, maybe it's real, but we won't just run away, if there is no hard evidence. How many crimes inspectors would resolve if they based criminal investigation on hard evidence only?

That surely would be limited, so that is my final answer to both threads of yours asking for Illuminati evidence: with that thinking we just limit ourselves and prohibit ourselves to learn something new which could help us investigate crimes some people did against humanity. That for sure would be something they would like, that is, to have people who don't ask questions, obedient consumers with no brain.

My advice - question authority! Never let them pass any law without your involvement. Ah well, what i am thinking, i am in 21st century not 19th. Constitution went down the toilet for the reasons i mentioned above. People are too busy and too simple to question anything except TV Guide.

[edit on 26-6-2007 by sb2012]

Ickey,
Are you trying to say that there is an organization called the Illuminati? It seems like every time somebody shows you proof they exists, you say thats not the Illuminati, thats these other guys. I really doubt there is any group called the 'Illuminati'. Better chance that a lot of rich people decided they wanted to keep and increase there power. And to do this the created some organizations and infiltrated others in order to help them achieve their goals. If these powerfull elites working for this use the term illuminati, they are probly making fun of people talk about it like theirs a group called that.

In my mind, "Illuminati" is just a borrowed term to refer to the inter-webbing of various powerful banking families, those in control, large corporations, et al.

New World Order, The Illuminati, etc. All different names for the same thing.

Originally posted by ModernDystopia
In my mind, "Illuminati" is just a borrowed term to refer to the inter-webbing of various powerful banking families, those in control, large corporations, et al.

I guess this is what I find confusing. Why do you guys refer to such people as "Illuminati"? I mean, what's so illuminated about them?

I'll have to some-what agree with Masonic Light on this one.


However, the top Zionist-bankers, war-financers, etc. are actually awakened, but in evil.

In other words: They are Black Magicians.

So they are "Illuminated" in a sense, but have their Essence still trapped in the ego.

So these personalities are of the Black Lodge.


The True Illuminati, Magi, or White Magicians are also Awakened, however they eliminate the egos along with their Awakening, as to do the Will of their Father who is in secret.

They Awaken Consciousness outside of the ego by destroying the latter.

Cagliostro is an Illuminati of the White Lodge.

Consciousness is Light.

A Buddha is an Awakened One.

But the "Buddhist" Dugpas of Tibet are awakened in evil, or in the ego.



Much of this is explained in the following thread:


Other Side of the Illuminati



I highly recommend Manly P. Hall's "Masonic Orders of Fraternity" for those interested in the actual Bavarian Illuminati.

See Samael Aun Weor's "Aquarian Message" and also the "Most Holy Trinosophia" by Comte De Saint-Germain and Manly P. Hall, for related teachings.


Goethe, on his death-bed, said: "More Light!"

He must have known that the Bardo of Clear Light dawns, immediately after the Five Elements dissolve at the beginning of the physical-death process.




[edit on 27-6-2007 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by Tamahu
I'll have to some-what agree with Masonic Light on this one.

Wow. Hell just froze over, and the devil is now wearing ice skates.

However, the top Zionist-bankers, war-financers, etc. are actually awakened, but in evil.

But being "awakened to evil", whatever that may mean, is being awake at all: it's being deceived.

In other words: They are Black Magicians.

From a technical point of view, I would argue that there is no such thing as "black magicians". I say this because the very word "Magick" denoted the Science of the Magi, and obviously, a Magian Priest cannot follow the path of evil and still remain a Magian Priest.

So they are "Illuminated" in a sense, but have their Essence still trapped in the ego.

If one is stuck in the egocentric, how can he be illuminated? Isn't that a contradiction?

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Wow. Hell just froze over, and the devil is now wearing ice skates.

Well, we've agreed a couple times before, at the very least.

But being "awakened to evil", whatever that may mean, is being awake at all: it's being deceived.

Even though it is quite rare(although becoming more common each day), some people actually do intentionally perform harmful deeds while being fully aware of it.

Most people do harmful deeds with their Consciousness asleep.

But the Adept Black Magician does harm with the Consciousness awake, but still trapped in the ego.

From a technical point of view, I would argue that there is no such thing as "black magicians". I say this because the very word "Magick" denoted the Science of the Magi, and obviously, a Magian Priest cannot follow the path of evil and still remain a Magian Priest.

I see where you're coming from.

However, a Black Magician is still a "Magi", but a Magi-inverted.


"Demon est deus inversus"

If one is stuck in the egocentric, how can he be illuminated? Isn't that a contradiction?

Again, their Consciousness is "Illuminated", but within the ego.

The White Magician attains her or his Powers of Theurgy from God, by awakening the Kundalini.

The Black Magician gains his or her powers from Satan, by strengthening or further awakening, the Kundabuffer mentioned by Gurdjieff; also known as the Kundartiguador.





[edit on 27-6-2007 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by Ickey
Illuminati is not to blame, because it does not exist.

[edit on 24-6-2007 by Ickey]

The point here was, and still is, that they DID exist at one time. Add into that human nature, and you get a naturally suspicious group of people. They'd have to be to keep up their shady dealings. To keep themselves anonymous, they'd orchestrate a change of name every so often, almost like a "false flag operation", to make themselves into something completely different.

Anyway, this group of very elite people were not stupid. They would have planned in advance the propagation of their order through whatever means they deemed necessary. They would have designed a way such that they could continue to hold all of their power without giving it to too many people, thereby assuring themselves a seat at the top levels of world power.

Now, do I believe that all of what I've said is true? To a large degree, yes. My evidence is the logic behind human nature, and the desire to keep power. As the old saying goes, "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

TheBorg

Originally posted by sb2012
Can you provide me some evidence there is no evidence

Man oh man have we really gotten that bad? lol This whole 'prove it' thing is totally out of control, it's a discussion forum for crying out loud. Nothing against you sb2012, its an alarming trend and your post is just an example of what I think is a really serious problem developing in the Conspiracy Theory genre.
As to the OP's assertion that no proof that the Illuminatti exsists, it's not really arguable. Yes they were real, the real debate is if they continue to exsist today and what power they hold if they do. You really should brush up on some history before you try to claim there is no evidence of something.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
If one is stuck in the egocentric, how can he be illuminated? Isn't that a contradiction?

Why don't You tell us the answer to that question, temple builder.