Convert Me!!!!! ( Christain or Atheist)

Just remember this. Life teaches that God is out there. Look around you. The bible alone is predicting history. Just because you cannot see it or prove it does not mean a thing. God wanted free will. To have free will. You cannot have proof. Think of it this way disprove God with out a dout. You cant. Nor will you or anyone ever prove that there is no God. Cuz you cant.

Originally posted by slymattb
Just remember this. Life teaches that God is out there.

No it doesn't, religion teaches gods are out there.

Look around you. The bible alone is predicting history. Just because you cannot see it or prove it does not mean a thing.

Try listening to yourself.

God wanted free will. To have free will. You cannot have proof. Think of it this way disprove God with out a dout. You cant. Nor will you or anyone ever prove that there is no God. Cuz you cant.

Whether I can or cannot prove the existence of gods is immaterial because I still don't believe that they exist and no matter how much drivel religionites give up as confirmation of their religion is going to change my mind.

Assumption is the problem (for everyone).


G

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
Good point well taken maybe I am, but it is the atheist that try to use science to disprove God so I can only assume you get disprove something with something that is not in the same category

No-one can disprove god, no-one can prove god. That's why he is posited to live in some quantum realm on an invisible cloud outside of reality by 'clever' theologians.

What we can do is take various claims and empirically test them.

If you say that the earth was created by an invisible omnipotent magic elf 6000 years ago, we can test this in various ways and show it to be wrong.

If you say that an invisible omnipotent magic elf will answer your needs, we can set up experiments to test this hypothesis, and show it to be wrong.

etc etc.

Just like we can't prove or disprove other things that reside beyond reality and empirical testing, but we can examine testable claims. I see Popper was raised earlier, yeah, we can only falsify theories and hypotheses, that's why we can't prove invisible interdimensional elves, but we can test particular claims made.

However, the atheist position is that, therefore, it is not rational to hold a belief in an invisible magic elf who resides beyond reality without some real evidence.

We can suggest that it is very unlikely that interdimensional elves exist as (i) we have absolutely no evidence for them, (ii) the world would be rather different if these elves were interacting with our universe, (iii) testable claims about the actions of the elves do not hold up to empirical scrutiny.

Although, if it makes you happy and life more meaningful to believe in invisible omnipotent interdimensional elves, I'm all for people being happy


[edit on 16-7-2007 by melatonin]

OK, I believe in God. In fact, I know He exists.

Having said that, I understand the Atheist point of view. I would rebel if I had the freakin' Christians shoving their, "it's my way or the Hell highway", views down everyones throats. They read passages like

"Heed these words. All about you, evil men and prostitutes are entering the kingdom of heaven ahead of you. These have heard the call to life and have turned to God, while the pious and religious have heard the call and have deliberately turned away."

Yet they still believe they are getting Raptured while all the others stay on Earth. I tell them that I believe I will get left behind, and they ask me not to post anymore.

I have had thread after thread shut down in these Christian Forums because my beliefs are different. I never said they had to believe what I say, I just tell them that I feel I have found the truth. But they keep shutting me down. Yet they love to put down everyone else, Catholics, Atheists, anyone who does not believe EXACTLY the way they do.

I say, believe in what you feel is right.

Let's say, you are on your way to a job interview. You pass a guy who is waving you down, because his car is broke down. You get to the interview on time, to find that the person interviewing you is late. A half hour later, the interviewer shows up. He is the person you passed up on the side of the road.
Think you'll get the job?

Acts of kindness come back around, as well as acts of unkindness. This affects us in this life. Treat others well, and life will reward you, whether you think the reward is from God or not.

This is the Golden Rule in the bible. I don't see why it's so hard to believe that it is the truth. You don't have to believe the bible, to see the Golden Rule is the truth. What you do with the truth, is up to you.

Is it a crime, my atheist friends, to chalk on up for God every once in a while. This is to me, a personal belief. I would rather be in error in believing in God, than be in error in not believing. I'm not asking anyone to believe in what I say, or in God. I am asking, treat each other well. Together, we can hand our children a better place. This, is my purpose.

[edit on 16-7-2007 by stompk]

[edit on 16-7-2007 by stompk]

Originally posted by stompk
OK, I believe in God. In fact, I know He exists.

Define know.

Know as in, you've convinced your self that he exist or know in the sense of that you know 1 + 1 = 2? If you're claiming the latter, I'm going to have to call you a liar.

When I was about 20 or so, I was caught up to Heaven. You know, like the near death experience, except I wasn't dying. I was perfectly healthy. I saw my decease Father, and Great Grandmother. I saw a throne, and felt the presence of God. Many other experiences. This, to me is proof.

To you, it will probably be explained away as some scientific theory, but I know what happened to me. Again, whether you believe in God or not is up to you. I'm not asking you to believe me. I'm just posting my beliefs, because the OP asked.

Originally posted by stompk
When I was about 20 or so, I was caught up to Heaven. You know, like the near death experience, except I wasn't dying. I was perfectly healthy. I saw my decease Father, and Great Grandmother. I saw a throne, and felt the presence of God. Many other experiences. This, to me is proof.

To you, it will probably be explained away as some scientific theory, but I know what happened to me. Again, whether you believe in God or not is up to you. I'm not asking you to believe me. I'm just posting my beliefs, because the OP asked.

Well, I’m obviously not going to believe you. The likelihood of this being true is amazingly small. Thousands have made such claims.

I’d like to know more about your visit in Heaven, however. For instance, why did ‘God’ call you up there, what makes you so special that you deserve this first hand experience? Why can’t I have one? Did you have this experience before or after you came to believe in God? Which God is it you believe in and how did you know it was this God you met in heaven?

Lurker, you've already said you don't believe me, effectively calling me a liar, as well as the thousands that have made this claim. Actually, very few if any have been caught up while healthy, so my experience is even more rare.
I could tell you why I was caught up to Heaven, but you won't believe that either.
Does it not mean anything to an Atheist, to hurt peoples feelings?

[edit on 16-7-2007 by stompk]

[edit on 16-7-2007 by stompk]

You're probably a liar in this regard. You could of course have had some sort of hallucination or a very vivid dream which has convinced you it was true.

Let me ask you another question, how do you know this experience was not a hallucination or a vivid dream?

I’ve had dreams, seemingly real, that thinking back at them a month past I’ve had difficulty discerning whether or not it was a real memory or just a dream.

Originally posted by stompk
Does it not mean anything to an Atheist, to hurt peoples feelings?

I can’t speak for other Atheists, but no, it means nothing to me if your feelings are hurt by my words. I’m not trying to hurt your feelings and I don’t understand why you would let the words of someone you don’t even know hurt you. I’m just being realistic here, I have no reason to believe your claims (nor anyone else’s) without proper explanation or evidence.

It’s like Buddah said:
Blieve nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. "

Well, stompk, I won't call you a liar, but I will go so far as to say that on this subject you're deluded. You've made several posts I've read where you see things that aren't really there, just because you want to see them. You don't appear to look at things objectively, you make them fit your worldview, one in which you believe so heavily in Jesus you see him in the clouds, and you see a schizophrenic or psychotic homeless man as god's messenger.

With all due respect, I believe you have fooled yourself, as so many have, because you want to believe. Belief is not truth. NDEs are not empiric evidence of life after death.

If you believe in something, it is truth to you.

Like I said Atheists, I am on your side whether you like it or not. Most of my friends are Atheist. We don't talk about God very often, because I enjoy being with my friends, without controversy.

I just got banned from the Rapture Ready forum, for getting angry with them for bashing some lady for a NDE experience. I come here, and I get bashed by the Atheist.

God said, those who are right with God, will be by themselves.

I'm proud to get banned for standing up for someone else.

That is how I got stabbed in the Navy. I stood up for someone else. I've always stood up for what I thought was right, even if it meant great tribulation to myself.

I stood up for the homeless man Bill, because I took him into my house. He had been rejected by the local churches.

How did the Catholic Church get $600,000,000 to "buy off" the accusers? When they take in money, aren't the supposed to redistribute it? No, they buy up assets, and sit on them, in the name of God. Poor souls.

For this reason, I am comfortable being alone in my beliefs.



[edit on 16-7-2007 by stompk]

Originally posted by stompk
If you believe in something, it is truth to you.

Really? No.. Belief to me does not equal truth. I try to stay away as much as I can from belief in any regard. I have little desire to believe, I’d much rather know. I’ll stick to knowledge based on empirical evidence. I must be reasonably certain (this very definition could be looked at further, and it would probably take me several pages to write it down) something is true before I categorize it as something I know. Lets do a few examples.

I know that 1 + 1 = 2. This is rather easy to know, as a quick experiment can demonstrate to us that 1 + 1 in fact is 2. I hold this to be truth.

I know that I am male. All physical evidence (me) and other aspects of society all points to the conclusion that I am, in fact, a male. Therefore I am reasonably certain (to a point where doubt is futile) that I am a male. I hold this to be truth.

Now to belief:

I believe that 9/11 was an inside job. All the evidence I have observed leads me to the conclusion that 9/11 was not carried out by Muslim extremists in the manner the official story narrates. I do not know this to be truth. I could be mislead and fooled by the available evidence, but at this stage I believe it is reasonable to believe that 9/11 was an inside job (by exactly whom or what I cannot answer). This is not the same as keeping the notion that 9/11 was an inside job as absolute truth.

I believe that no God, envisioned by man, exists. I am reasonably certain that no God created in the image of man is true. Whether or not a God actually exists, I do not know, however my reason leads me to believe that no such entity exists. However, should such entity exist, it is certainly irrelevant to us humans as it does not appear to interact with our reality at all. I am not too concerned with the existence or non-existence of God, I am more concerned with proving that the current religions created by man are false (a lot easier to do than proving that God in general does not exist, which is currently impossible (can’t disprove a negative)). You can, however, debunk Christianity by applying a bit of critical thinking and common sense.

Originally posted by stompk
Like I said Atheists, I am on your side whether you like it or not. Most of my friends are Atheist. We don't talk about God very often, because I enjoy being with my friends, without controversy.

I just got banned from the Rapture Ready forum, for getting angry with them for bashing some lady for a NDE experience. I come here, and I get bashed by the Atheist.

God said, those who are right with God, will be by themselves.

I'm proud to get banned for standing up for someone else.

That is how I got stabbed in the Navy. I stood up for someone else. I've always stood up for what I thought was right, even if it meant great tribulation to myself.

I stood up for the homeless man Bill, because I took him into my house. He had been rejected by the local churches.

Well, keep standing up for others, as long as they welcome it. However, I find it odd that you feel you’re being bashed. How are you being bashed [by me], exactly?

Originally posted by stompk
How did the Catholic Church get $600,000,000 to "buy off" the accusers? When they take in money, aren't the supposed to redistribute it? No, they buy up assets, and sit on them, in the name of God. Poor souls.

For this reason, I am comfortable being alone in my beliefs.

Money is power, why redistribute power? All Churches that I know of are corrupt.

LurkerBeast

I know that 1 + 1 = 2. This is rather easy to know, as a quick experiment can demonstrate to us that 1 + 1 in fact is 2. I hold this to be truth.

If you put two gallons of water in a bucket, do you have two gallons of water, or a bucket of water? If math can explain everything, how many gallons of water are in the Atlantic Ocean? A scientist made be able to estimate, but I seriously doubt an exact measurement, because one would have to account for the displacement of water the fish cause, and evaporation. If we put 1 and 1 together, aren't we after a greater whole?

I know that I am male. All physical evidence (me) and other aspects of society all points to the conclusion that I am, in fact, a male. Therefore I am reasonably certain (to a point where doubt is futile) that I am a male. I hold this to be truth.

You know you are male, but I don't. But I believe you. I would say, it's true, that you are male, simply because I believe you, even though you have shown me no proof.

Now to belief:

I believe that 9/11 was an inside job. All the evidence I have observed leads me to the conclusion that 9/11 was not carried out by Muslim extremists in the manner the official story narrates. I do not know this to be truth. I could be mislead and fooled by the available evidence, but at this stage I believe it is reasonable to believe that 9/11 was an inside job (by exactly whom or what I cannot answer). This is not the same as keeping the notion that 9/11 was an inside job as absolute truth.

I too, believe that our Government is not telling us the truth.

However, should such entity exist, it is certainly irrelevant to us humans as it does not appear to interact with our reality at all.

This, you believe to be true. I don't

I am not too concerned with the existence or non-existence of God, I am more concerned with proving that the current religions created by man are false

How is this not bashing ones beliefs. Is it right for you to try to discredit someones religion, when you don't like them forcing it on you?

All Churches that I know of are corrupt.

Unfortunately, I agree.

Stomp.

[edit on 17-7-2007 by stompk]

Originally posted by stompk

I know that 1 + 1 = 2. This is rather easy to know, as a quick experiment can demonstrate to us that 1 + 1 in fact is 2. I hold this to be truth.

If you put two gallons of water in a bucket, do you have two gallons of water, or a bucket of water? If math can explain everything, how many gallons of water are in the Atlantic Ocean? A scientist made be able to estimate, but I seriously doubt an exact measurement, because one would have to account for the displacement of water the fish cause, and evaporation. If we put 1 and 1 together, aren't we after a greater whole?

You’d have a bucket with 2 gallons of water. My simplistic mind does not understand where you are going with this.

Originally posted by stompk

I know that I am male. All physical evidence (me) and other aspects of society all points to the conclusion that I am, in fact, a male. Therefore I am reasonably certain (to a point where doubt is futile) that I am a male. I hold this to be truth.

You know you are male, but I don't. But I believe you. I would say, it's true, that you are male, simply because I believe you, even though you have shown me no proof.

Well, in this case, it would be reasonable to believe that I am telling the truth. However, you should not base any actions you take in your life upon the assertion that I am male without further proof.

Originally posted by stompk

However, should such entity exist, it is certainly irrelevant to us humans as it does not appear to interact with our reality at all.

This, you believe to be true. I don't

Then I have to ask you, why do you not? On what evidence do you base your belief?

Originally posted by stompk

I am not too concerned with the existence or non-existence of God, I am more concerned with proving that the current religions created by man are false

How is this not bashing ones beliefs. Is it right for you to try to discredit someones religion, when you don't like them forcing it on you?

If it is right for me? Yes. Why should it not be right for me to discredit someone’s religion? It sounds to me that you’re saying that dissent should not be allowed nor tolerated?

I’m not forcing anything on anyone; I’m merely stating my opinions and views on the subject. You can leave this discussion at anytime and shroud your self in your deluded beliefs should you so wish. I also happen to believe you have the right to do so, provided it does not have a negative impact on anyone else. Unfortunately when it comes to baseless religious faith, this is rarely the case.

Again, you attack me, claiming my beliefs are deluded.

I dust off my feet.....

Originally posted by stompk
Again, you attack me, claiming my beliefs are deluded.

I dust off my feet.....

Attack or just stating the obvious?

But maybe you're right; maybe it serves no real purpose in calling a spade a spade when it hurts your feelings. Perhaps I should rethink my strategy.

Adios!

People attact others all the time for there beliefs that does'nt make them right. There lac of faith in what real is sad. But you cannot stop one that wont believe. What you can do is keep your faith strong, and fight the good fight. Just because one does'nt believe should not destroy your own belief. Take your works to those who will belive and dont waist your words for nothing. For some wont believe. Go with God.