Convert Me!!!!! ( Christain or Atheist)

Originally posted by dbates

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
Why should Christians have to prove there being a god and atheist don't have to prove anything.

Relax. Christians don't have to prove anything either. That's a common misunderstanding. As a Christian all you're required to do is relay what you know. Christianity (except for the apostles) is a faith-based religion. That means you read what's written in the Bible, and you believe. If you share your faith with others they are not required to believe. Without free-will there could be no love. Sadly that allows room for denial but don't worry about it if others disapprove of your religion. Christians aren't told to convert, just to share their knowledge. The conversion part is left up to the individual and God.

(At the risk of venturing into theology)
Atheist have all the evidence they need to point towards there being a Creator (Aside from the fact that you can't prove a negative). Quite simply, there is a creation so there must be a creator. Something from nothing is not possible. This morning I was helping my daughter put a saddle on a horse and I couldn't help but think how fantastic these animals were. Imagine finding something like this on another planet. Scientist would scream with delight. People would faint in shock. Yet, since they're here on our planet, they're just lumped in with everything else as part of a cosmic accident. There's no way they could be designed because.....because....they are on our planet. That's pretty much all the atheist has to do. Simply ignore all life on this planet and pretend it's all an accident.

In 2001 a Space Odyssey, what was the great discovery on the moon that had everyone in a tizzy? A monolith. That's right. Just a simple rectangle without any moving parts. Simply the fact that it was shaped proved there was in intelligence behind it.

The following two pictures and comments sums up the atheist and scientific community who discount intelligent design. That deny the existence of a god.

Wow! Proof of intelligent life out there. No doubt something designed this.

Boring! Ho-hum. Show me the evidence there's an intelligent designer behind this "thing". It's a cosmic accident for sure.

[edit on 22-6-2007 by dbates]

I like your post makes alot of scence but if I am a child and children ask alot of questions I would ask you if God did create everything then why does he not show himself like we talk about he showed himself to people in the bible. Pillar of fire and so forth

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
Then who created the creator? by your logic, something can't come from nothing, so where did the creator come from? Then who created that creator? It becomes an infinite regression.

It's simpler and proper to see that the universe has always been and will always be. No creator necessary.

Well do you believe that the universe is infinte? I also would like to know what is it that they say the simplist answer is usually the right one? Which answer is more simple That something created everything or that Billions of years ago all these things just were and all of a sudden came together to create what we call life. Also lets say that sceintist are right and that everything was already here could it be God that put everything together. I think in the bible is says something about before god made the earth into what it was there was chaos.

[edit on 22-6-2007 by Mrknighttime32]

*cringes* Please don't quote so much of the previous post. Thanks.

If God showed himself to us then it would be game over. We would be denied the chance to accept him by faith alone. This decision is vital to Christianity since God wants people to love him for other reasons than because he could snuff them out in an instant. The one thing God can't manufacture is love. If you force it then it would be nothing more than a robotic response. "Yes master....I hear and obey."

This will happen in the near future (Don't ask for a specific year) but until then God leaves us with an exact balance of faith and doubt. There are good reasons to believe (As I explained) and there are good reasons not to believe. (MajorMalfunction's examples) If you think about it though, it's odd how things are balanced like that. Why isn't there more proof of God like a giant face in the sky? Why not more proof of evolution such as a complete fossil record? The odds are stacked in no ones favor and that to me seems a little fixed.

In the end it's an individual decision. I enjoy talking about it but of course I don't have the slightest expectation that I'll persuade anyone so "Convert Me" really isn't a realistic idea. It is a good topical discussion though.

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
I also would like to know what is it that they say the simplist answer is usually the right one?

Actually that's "All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the best one." You're speaking of Occam's razor. While probably true this is more philosophy than science and is an often over-used quote.


[edit on 22-6-2007 by dbates]

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32

Originally posted by Cuhail


I DON'T think there is a Hell. I honestly think Earth is the closest thing to Hell we will ever experience. And the forever in Hell is only if you can't learn that lesson you need to get into heaven.
So, in my case, I live my life just like you. I get up and start a day of making constant decisions. However, my decisions are always based on how it could effect those around me. I liken it to the carpenter's adage of "Measure twice, cut once" or "Look before you leap". I have to forgive myself at the end of my life, my decisions today effect my forever, so, I conduct myself in a manner that makes that easier.
I'm not worried about God being proud, I worry about me being proud. I want to be a good guy. Christian or Athiest? Whatever. I don't think it matters. Call yourself anything. It's in your mindset and your actions how you live your life. Not in any dogma.

Class is where it's at, my brotha!
Cuhail

You make some good points there I was wondering though you said that it is up to us to choose whether or not we or spit back into the cycle or not I want you to tell me who in there right mind would choose to you to Earth-Hell as you call it. If it is up to me I would do whatever I wanted to here on earth because when I die I know I can choose if I think to my standards I lead a decent life. SOUNDS GREAT TO ME.

Let's see...How can I put this?
If you are told to read a book and you are told you will be quizzed upon finishing that book and then you read the book and then (Too many and thens, I know) upon being quizzed, you realize you didn't quite absorb all that you needed to pass the quiz. You go back, and re-study what you missed...just to take the quiz again. Life is indeed a big quiz, am I right? So, to learn the answers in full, I think we are re-incarnated back to a human form.
Easy peasy.
Cuhail

Ok so who is to say that we have passed the quiz or not. If it is your choice would you really choice to come back to this.

I understand what you are saying bates. But I ask you this if God did not want us to love him through what he can do then why did he show himself to the jews and to moses in such a magnifisent way. I mean moses actually got to see God the only person ever to be able to do that. I mean I think he saw his back but still seeing Gods back would change people a whole lot. Also people in the world are so stubborn that if God does show himself then people would still reject him dont you think. I think it says that in the bible too.

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction

Science books are full of tested, proven facts about the laws of nature, that change when new knowledge is obtained.

I don't believe this.

I agree with Friedrich Nietzsche that humans AUTOMATICALLY place their own psychology on everything they do, expecting a certain outcome or answer. Hence, there is really no such thing as "science" because you already have your own preconceived notions about everything.

yea thats what i was saying humb science is not really science because the facts that we use are facts that we have figured out ourselves and what is that saying because how many times our we right.

Originally posted by thehumbleone


I don't believe this.

I agree with Friedrich Nietzsche that humans AUTOMATICALLY place their own psychology on everything they do, expecting a certain outcome or answer. Hence, there is really no such thing as "science" because you already have your own preconceived notions about everything.

Agreed. Was it Karl Popper who claimed that all scientific hypotheses are value laden? A so-called objective hypothesis is usually highly subjective because you are looking for a positive outcome to your researches. If the phenomenon you want is not found in HeLa (human cell lines), you are liable to look at Chuinese Hamster Ovary (CHO) cell lines or other recondite cell lines to get a positive recorable result.

Originally posted by Heronumber0

Agreed. Was it Karl Popper who claimed that all scientific hypotheses are value laden?

Ah yes, old Karl popper. he had some good ideas, I agree with his views on science.

Popper's philosophy

Philosophy of Science

Popper coined the term critical rationalism to describe his philosophy. The term indicates his rejection of classical empiricism, and of the observationalist-inductivist account of science that had grown out of it. Popper argued strongly against the latter, holding that scientific theories are universal in nature, and can be tested only indirectly, by reference to their implications. He also held that scientific theory, and human knowledge generally, is irreducibly conjectural or hypothetical, and is generated by the creative imagination in order to solve problems that have arisen in specific historico-cultural settings. Logically, no number of positive outcomes at the level of experimental testing can confirm a scientific theory, but a single counterexample is logically decisive:

Source

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
Ok so who is to say that we have passed the quiz or not. If it is your choice would you really choice to come back to this.

If you pay $20,000.00 for a semester at a University to learn what you need to know, then fail the test to see what you know. No diploma. As a student of whatever (In this case, life) you need to know certain things to move along intelligently.
You would send you back.
Not the silly human you are right now, but, the being we all really are. I don't want to say "Light" being, but you get the gist.

I realize this is all speculation too. I could be completely ass-backward about it. But, I'm sticking to it because it makes sense to me.

Cuhail

Originally posted by Cuhail

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
Ok so who is to say that we have passed the quiz or not. If it is your choice would you really choice to come back to this.

If you pay $20,000.00 for a semester at a University to learn what you need to know, then fail the test to see what you know. No diploma. As a student of whatever (In this case, life) you need to know certain things to move along intelligently.
You would send you back.
Not the silly human you are right now, but, the being we all really are. I don't want to say "Light" being, but you get the gist.

I realize this is all speculation too. I could be completely ass-backward about it. But, I'm sticking to it because it makes sense to me.

Cuhail

Ok so are you saying that it will not be my choice at the end or it will be

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32

Originally posted by Cuhail

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
Ok so who is to say that we have passed the quiz or not. If it is your choice would you really choice to come back to this.

If you pay $20,000.00 for a semester at a University to learn what you need to know, then fail the test to see what you know. No diploma. As a student of whatever (In this case, life) you need to know certain things to move along intelligently.
You would send you back.
Not the silly human you are right now, but, the being we all really are. I don't want to say "Light" being, but you get the gist.

I realize this is all speculation too. I could be completely ass-backward about it. But, I'm sticking to it because it makes sense to me.

Cuhail

Ok so are you saying that it will not be my choice at the end or it will be

It will be YOUR choice. I can assume right now, that you will return....But I can only assume.

C

Let me tell you now if you are right im not coming back

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
IS HE OR ISNT HE?


I want someone to show me how everything works and why they believe it works that way.

First off, to be a christian the starting point comes from God Himself. The Holy Spirit's role is to convict the unbeliever of their sin. So that is a personal thing. If the Holy Spirit convicts me of my sin, you are not going to feel that conviction. If the Holy Spirit convicts you of your sin I'm not going to feel it.

So if you sense something in your life about what you are doing or saying is not right you need to pay attention because God is trying to get your attention. He will also work through circumstances in a person's life to get their attention, an example of this is cancer.

After He has your attention about sin and eternity, then listen to sound christians and attend a Bible believing church.

How do you know if you have found a sound christian or a sound church? By knowing what the Bible says.

How do you know what the Bible says? By reading it.

Then once you have accepted Jesus' completed work on the cross(which can be done at any point of the process). The fact that He took your punishment so you wouldn't have too. The exchange has been made, your sins are transferred to Christ so that He absorbs the wrath of God and you receive His righteousness and are no longer under condemnation.

Then the Holy Spirit, who now dwells inside you, lives with you to show you a new way to live. A way that enhances who you were meant to be and removes the bad and instills the good.


You are a new creation and day after day God lives in you and you are destined for an endless eternity with The God of The Universe and all that that contains and means.

And you never have to wonder if God is going to leave you because He promises(and He cannot lie) to never leave you nor forsake you.

There is so much more that could be written, because Jesus is an infinite God and He has made an infinite eternity for believers to inhabit.

[edit on 22-6-2007 by dbrandt]

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
Wrong.

A bible is a book of fiction and morality plays supported only by itself and other people's beliefs. The bible is not to be questioned and does not ever change, no matter how outdated or ridiculous it is compared to modern knowledge.

:shk:




Creating this thread was a mistake. Knowing how people feel about their beliefs you went ahead and did it anyway. You or I can't force our own beliefs down peoples throats. Thats why its called free will. Thats our choice and our right. This is like adding gasoline to the fire all it gonna do is blow up in your face.

Originally posted by Leyla

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
Wrong.

A bible is a book of fiction and morality plays supported only by itself and other people's beliefs. The bible is not to be questioned and does not ever change, no matter how outdated or ridiculous it is compared to modern knowledge.

:shk:




Creating this thread was a mistake. Knowing how people feel about their beliefs you went ahead and did it anyway. You or I can't force our own beliefs down peoples throats. Thats why its called free will. Thats our choice and our right. This is like adding gasoline to the fire all it gonna do is blow up in your face.

So free will is perfectly aceptable when you say so, but if someones opinion isn't the "right" opinion then free will and the choice of having any opinion goes right out of the nearest window.

you are right that everything comes down to free will but i also feel if u do believe in something you should be able to explain why you do. is jesus god i thought there is only one god

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
you are right that everything comes down to free will but i also feel if u do believe in something you should be able to explain why you do.

Is it possible you do not have free will, but just think you do? What I mean is, you make a decision based on your thoughts, but where exactly do they come from? Are they yours, or suggestions of how to think that are so close to you that you think they are yours.

Is it possible you do not have free will, but just think you do? What I mean is, you make a decision based on your thoughts, but where exactly do they come from? Are they yours, or suggestions of how to think that are so close to you that you think they are yours.

Whose else would they be? Charles Manson's?

All we can be certain of is, if there is a thought in YOUR head, YOU have thought it, nobody else.

Any other "explanation" is madness. Hearing voices or attributing thoughts to something outside your own brain is insane.

[edit on 23-6-2007 by MajorMalfunction]