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Skirmish: jrod V NephraTari: Right to Die

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posted on Jan, 8 2004 @ 12:34 AM
The topic for this debate is "The right to die is the ultimate personal Freedom."

jrod will be arguing for this proposition and will open the debate.
Nephratari will argue against this proposition.

Each debator will have one opening statement each. This will be followed by 3 alternating replies each. There will then be one closing statement each and no rebuttal.

No post will be longer than 800 words and in the case of the closing statement no longer than 500 words. In the event of a debator posting more than the stated word limit then the excess words will be deleted by me from the bottom. Credits or references at the bottom count as part of the post.

Editing is Strictly forbidden.

Excluding both the opening and closing statements only one image or link may be included in any post. Opening and Closing statement must not carry either images or links.

As a guide responses should be made within 18 hours. However if the debate is moving forward then I have a relaxed attitude to this.

The winner will receive 1000 ATS points the loser (on condition of completion) will receive 500 ATS points. This on top of generous points allocation for Debate forum posts.

The debate will be judged by an anonymous and independant judging panel after the closing statements. Results and comments will be posted when the decision has been made.

This debate is now open, good luck.

posted on Jan, 9 2004 @ 04:25 PM
In the free world we have control over our destiny. Food is availible, health care and medicine are availible for those in need, our life is not a stuggle with our health and where are we going to find our next meal. We need not to worry about how we are going to survive and we try to find our niche in society. In third world countries the above is not availible for the masses, the average person does not know where their next meal is going to come from, disease and malnutrition is an epidemic. Instead of finding their niche they struggle to live everyday of their life. We are born with the freedom of being able to choose our lifestyle which ultimatly chooses our death style.

Why then do people blessed with this freedom find themselves suicial? No one can stop the individual from taking his or her life, but no sane person wants a person to take matters in their own hands. Suicide is the ultimate selfish act, one who does will hurt many others after it is done. The ultimate personal freedom has consequences.

We in the USA have capitol punishment for those who brutually end anothers life. Being setenced to death in our free society is the losing the ultimate personal freedom of life.

posted on Jan, 10 2004 @ 11:20 AM
Thank you Kano for this opportunity, I look forward to an intense debate here.
Nicely done opening statement jrod.

Is the right to die the ultimate personal freedom?
In a word no. Life is the ultimate personal freedom, but of course we all have the right to life, or so it seems.
Is death the ultimate personal freedom for the fetus that gets aborted before it breathes its first breathe?
Just who's personal freedom are we defending here?
People who think death is the ultimate personal freedom are not looking at the bigger picture.
Personal freedoms apply to each of us. Does the child who's mother commits suicide because she is suffering from post partum depression that has gone unnoticed consider her act an ultimate personal freedom?
Are the people that take their own lives really thinking of it as a personal freedom?
What about the people who make those choices due to mental disorders or a chemical imbalance? Are they really expressing their sincere desire and free will, or does that decision come not from their personal desire but rather from the feeling of despair they are experiencing for a moment in time that may be fleeting at best?
To say that the right to die is a greater personal freedom than the right to live, is to take the right to live for granted, simply because it has not been infringed upon for us.
For the victims of abortion and other forms of murder, the right to life is most certainly the ultimate personal freedom, however they are not able to protest or argue in favor of that right any longer.

posted on Jan, 10 2004 @ 08:04 PM
We are free to die always.

Those who take the power into their own hands and kill themselves or another is playing God and no human has the right to do that. When someone takes their life or someone elses there is alwas a root cause.

As a child including unborns your parents are in control of your fate. It is not until you grow out of their control that you are truly a free being. Unfortunatly in our society like genetics a child often inherits their parents bad traits, such as social/mental disorders that may keep them from truly being free and realizing their gift. We are destined for freedom if those more powerful let it be.

We are responsible for our own fate and the fate of our offspring. At the end we die and if we used our freedom well the death will not be a tragic ending, but a reminder of the gift of life. How we die is the reflection of how we lived. A free soul's death is a celebration of life. The gift of creation is life and the gift of freedom is death.

posted on Jan, 11 2004 @ 12:12 AM
Some interesting points jrod.

Indeed those who take the power in their own hands ARE playing god.
For some people having control over when and how they die is a freedom that
they do not want. For those who are of certain religious beliefs it is detrimental
to their very soul to choose death. It is a sin equal to murder.
So I think it is very clear that in that case death would most certainly NOT be
the ultimate personal freedom, as it is not even desired as a matter of choice.

Genetic and mental disorders as you said are very often inherted or passed on to
the next generation. Those people with mental disorders through heredity or otherwise
may well be destined for the freedom of death if those in power let it be.
but again.. is that the ultimate personal freedom for them? Are they fully
expressing the truest desires of their soul when they may choose death, or is the
effects of the mental disorder making that choice for them? Since these disorders
often cause depression which in turn causes a person to feel worthless and hopeless
without cause, how can their choice of death under those circumstances be considered
the ultimate personal freedom?

We are not responsible for our own fate in all regards. Every persons life effects
every other persons. When we choose to die we are not only affecting our own fate,
but also that of those around us. Like it or not our choices all have consequences.

So if death is not the ULTIMATE personal freedom... what is the greatest personal freedom? I am not certain that
anyone can answer that, but for me LIFE is the ultimate personal freedom.

To choose to live is the greatest freedom we have. Life is a beautiful thing,
and without life there is no death. Without life there is no other freedoms to experience at all.

How can anything be of greater importance than that?

posted on Jan, 12 2004 @ 04:44 PM
I concede, this topic and my side of the debate is a difficult if not impossible for me to defend.

NephraTari, well done! Good luck in future debates.

posted on Jan, 12 2004 @ 05:58 PM

Originally posted by jrod
I concede, this topic and my side of the debate is a difficult if not impossible for me to defend.

NephraTari, well done! Good luck in future debates.

Thank You jrod well fought.
I too had a hard time on this debate as I found myself fighting for the side opposite of my convictions.. through this process however I have forced myself to look at this topic from another angle..
I look forward to meeting you in future debates jrod.
I also want to thank Kano and the judges once again for allowing me to participate, this was a wonderful experience.

posted on Jan, 13 2004 @ 12:54 PM
You are most welcome NephraTari, although the lazy judges didn't have to do anything in this case

Congratulations to NephraTari, and commiserations to jrod. Better luck next time.

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