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Anyone Not Believe There's a NWO/Illuminati Conspiracy?

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posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 06:43 AM
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Wow, interesting thread. Will have to read it in more detail and many finer points I want to go over but I'm not worried about any 'illuminists' or NWO shill. Why? because I'm a die hard Christian and I believe what the Bible says and it is clear, these 'folks' pushing their globalist agenda are nothing but pawns of judgment in God's great plan. Are we near the point where the NWO will come to power for short time? Who knows for sure but everything is unfolding exactly as it should. This may not make any sense to you but if it is God's timing then there is not much we can do to stop what's happening.. the 'system' is already in place but just take comfort, these people are under a strong delusion and don't really know their end. They will find out soon enough.




posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 07:07 AM
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Very nice thread. Not bad posting, but some of the posts could have a bit more thought to them. The N.W.O. Were the old world order. The order we have today are a different order than what was before and will keep changing or evolving to get what they set out to get what they want.

To say or dismiss them is just plain iggnorant, (I thought ats and the rest of us on here was to deny iggnorance not embrace it!) Dont get me wrong I am very sceptical about them actual being able to get what they want, but on the other hand Im quite open minded to them actually getting what they desire.

Just to prove a point: Jesus Christ was a one man operation with his twelve diciples (just like Budda and Mohammed) and they are all stronger today than they have ever been. I do admit the that one is about religion and the other golbal domination, but if one was operated by one man and is very successful today then why not a group of men that could be just as strong??

Also It would be a lot easir today than ever before to achive what they want.

Of course 500/230 years back then the N.W.O/O.W.O. would not have known about technology, but today they do.

Again just my 2 cents but Satans greatest trick was to make mankind beleive that he didnt exist. What Im saying there, keep a open mind to both arguments rather than a closed one.



posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 07:20 AM
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Yes, interesting view. About age of conspiracy, well some say it goes all the way back to Atlantis and even then people are divided on issue, some say it's an ancient fight between two groups and some say it's just continuation of the Great Work of Ages.

But what Adam Weishaupt did, when he founded the Illuminati on May 1, 1776, is like a plan inside the Plan. His society makes sure all things are speeded up and also prevents others from obtaining power. Masons in USA hated Illuminati, Gorge Washington wrote against them when he saw their globalist agenda.

What drives people towards this is also a topic on itself, some say its Satan or Lucifer (or both, as Steiner believed) and some say it's just what happens when civilization matures... World unites because we are wise enough to do just that, not because we are possessed by Satan. It's something normal and harmless and good for everyone, reduces crime and poverty.

Now you believe Satan doesn't exist or do i need to continue!?


[edit on 22-6-2007 by sb2012]



posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 08:01 AM
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There is a lot of dis-information here (in my view).

First, we already have a global dictator (or figure head) and the worst kind since he is cloaked in 'democracy'. At least most other dictators are openly governing as such. One can only dream of a true democratic country where political candidates are not financed by commerce. All (official) candidates should have an equal budget paid for by the voters - not business. Ever heard of a conflict of interest.

Secondly, there is confusion over the NWO's aim of either Socialsim or Capitalism. Why would the NWO be seeking socialism (unless such assertions are made by those confused over what socialism means). It is true that 'socialism' or 'communism' is a dirty word for many. These words have been entrenched in our minds from a young age as wrong evil and anyone promoting them is considered the enemy.

If the NWO is trying to promote socialsm why has the US fought tirelessly to prevent its growth. Surely - Ernesto Che Guevara would have been spared and allowed to spread his political beliefs rather than being executed by the CIA if the NWO's ultimate goal was socialism?

I do however, belive in the Uluminati / NWO but I think there has been deliberate misinformation intertwined to throw us off the scent.

NWO and socialism do not mix.



posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 08:13 AM
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Sorry but like I said I dont want to be taken the wrong way!

If the devil is real or not does not concern me, in a way religion does play a part in the grand scale of things (I mean having power over ones soul has got to be a power trip right).

But this is about the N.W.O. and if u belive or not. I just wanted to make a couple of examples to everybody else here on ats so people can make a better perspective and to keep a open mind to both sides, rather than just dismiss without palusible thought into what they might be dismissing.

Now as for Satan, well he was always going to be the loser. God brought him into this universe not the other way around. So I know which side I rather be on, Im sure u do too.



posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 08:20 AM
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But what Adam Weishaupt did, when he founded the Illuminati on May 1, 1776, is like a plan inside the Plan. His society makes sure all things are speeded up and also prevents others from obtaining power. Masons in USA hated Illuminati, Gorge Washington wrote against them when he saw their globalist agenda.


I wouldn't say that everyone hated the Illuminati. At the time Washington wrote that, his only knowledge of the Illuminati came from the anti-Illuminati propaganda machine, hardly an unbiased view. Thomas Jefferson actually defended the Illuminati, and wrote:

"As Weishaupt lived under the tyranny of a despot and priests, he knew that caution was necessary even in spreading information, and the principles of pure morality. This has given an air of mystery to his views, was the foundation of his banishment.... If Weishaupt had written here, where no secrecy is necessary in our endeavors to render men wise and virtuous, he would not have thought of any secret machinery for that purpose."

Link



[edit on 22-6-2007 by Masonic Light]



posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 09:47 AM
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Originally posted by yawkey
Sorry but like I said I dont want to be taken the wrong way!

If the devil is real or not does not concern me, in a way religion does play a part in the grand scale of things (I mean having power over ones soul has got to be a power trip right).

But this is about the N.W.O. and if u belive or not. I just wanted to make a couple of examples to everybody else here on ats so people can make a better perspective and to keep a open mind to both sides, rather than just dismiss without palusible thought into what they might be dismissing.

Now as for Satan, well he was always going to be the loser. God brought him into this universe not the other way around. So I know which side I rather be on, Im sure u do too.


Yes, i am also for as much info as possible, even if that upsets some people but truth is always more important. About Satan, well you can perceive Satan as a force, but some people perceive Satan as a being with immense spiritual power. Some even argue, according to old information, he was not created by God, but this is open to discussion and no conclusion. There are no losers or winner at that plane, it's just how things are, it's how universe works. All these forces are there for a purpose, it's up to us how we understand them. I am for Satan and God at same time, i believe if one vanishes universe would collapse. Biblical Satan is as important as God himself.



Originally posted by Masonic Light


But what Adam Weishaupt did, when he founded the Illuminati on May 1, 1776, is like a plan inside the Plan. His society makes sure all things are speeded up and also prevents others from obtaining power. Masons in USA hated Illuminati, Gorge Washington wrote against them when he saw their globalist agenda.


I wouldn't say that everyone hated the Illuminati. At the time Washington wrote that, his only knowledge of the Illuminati came from the anti-Illuminati propaganda machine, hardly an unbiased view. Thomas Jefferson actually defended the Illuminati, and wrote:

"As Weishaupt lived under the tyranny of a despot and priests, he knew that caution was necessary even in spreading information, and the principles of pure morality. This has given an air of mystery to his views, was the foundation of his banishment.... If Weishaupt had written here, where no secrecy is necessary in our endeavors to render men wise and virtuous, he would not have thought of any secret machinery for that purpose."

Link

[edit on 22-6-2007 by Masonic Light]


Yes, but some were too busy with USA to see beyond it and they perceived Weishaupt as ultimate evil, just as most of people today do, influenced by fundamental propaganda. I believe mission of USA (and EU) is to unite the world, by force if necessary.

I am not sure if all this force is really needed. What does humanity gain from agony? (when in war or suffering from poverty and injustice)



posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 12:54 PM
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Originally posted by sb2012


Yes, but some were too busy with USA to see beyond it and they perceived Weishaupt as ultimate evil, just as most of people today do, influenced by fundamental propaganda.


I would disagree that most people today would consider Weishaupt the ultimate evil. Indeed, I think most people who study the subject from an unbiased perspective would agree with him.

The Illuminati wanted freedom. They wanted to be able to read and write books without fear that the censors would arrest them and their families. They wanted to be able to seriously debate religious issues without being accused of heresy and witchcraft (and sent to the gallows).

They wanted to be actually able top determine their own leaders instead of having them appointed by a corrupt political elite. And they wanted to be able to publicly speak their minds without the same fear of arrest and persecution.

Today, we take all of this for granted. To the Illuminati, it was a dream not yet reached, and they had to be extremely careful even who they spoke of it with (and which led to the organization's extreme secrecy).



posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 12:55 PM
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What a delightful thread

One of many errors in the first post, first off a quote taken out of context:

"Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the Field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it."
-Woodrow Wilson, 1913

This isn't about an evil NWO/Illuminati conspiracy, old Woody is talking about Monopolies/Trusts - which at that time were a large problem and were stifling the economy, later the larger monopolies were broken up.

Here are the following paragraphs that were "creativity ignored" that gives the context of what he was talking about.

Wilson was referring to how corporate monopolies were making America the Land of Opportunity for the few, not the many. He also has a quaint view of the idea of collateral for loans. The next paragraphs:
Quote:
They know that America is not a place of which it can be said, as it used to be, that a man may choose his own calling and pursue it just as far as his abilities enable him to pursue it; because to-day, if he enters certain fields, there are organizations which will use means against him that will prevent his building up a business which they do not want to have built up; organizations that will see to it that the ground is cut from under him and the markets shut against him. For if he begins to sell to certain retail dealers, to any retail dealers, the monopoly will refuse to sell to those dealers, and those dealers, afraid, will not buy the new man's wares.


And this is the country which has lifted to the admiration of the world its ideals of absolutely free opportunity, where no man is supposed to be under any limitation except the limitations of his character and of his mind; where there is supposed to be no distinction of class, no distinction of blood, no distinction of social status, but where men win or lose on their merits.


I lay it very close to my own conscience as a public man whether we can any longer stand at our doors and welcome all newcomers upon those terms. American industry is not free, as once it was free; American enterprise is not free; the man with only a little capital is finding it harder to get into the field, more and more impossible to compete with the big fellow. Why? Because the laws of this country do not prevent the strong from crushing the weak. That is the reason, and because the strong have crushed the weak the strong dominate the industry and the economic life of this country. No man can deny that the lines of endeavor have more and more narrowed and stiffened; no man who knows anything about the development of industry in this country can have failed to observe that the larger kinds of credit are more and more difficult to obtain, unless you obtain them upon the terms of uniting your efforts with those who already control the industries of the country; and nobody can fail to observe that any man who tries to set himself up in competition with any process of manufacture which has been taken under the control of large combinations of capital will presently find himself either squeezed out or obliged to sell and allow himself to be absorbed.

...What this country needs above everything else is a body of laws which will look after the men who are on the make rather than the men who are already made. Because the men who are already made are not going to live indefinitely, and they are not always kind enough to leave sons as able and as honest as they are.

ibiblio.org...



posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 12:58 PM
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I think we should have loyalties to each other as human beings, i think the one thing the NWO hopes is that we don't stand up as one race of humans and fight there plan...



Uhmmm... if everyone stands up against them, isn't that a new world order? And wouldn't you need some kind of leader to direct everyone? Logically, it is the only way and realistically on the most brutally oppressive dictator imaginable could unite everyone under them and keep them there.

I am curious if it would be worth it if under this dictator meant peace, harmony and prosperity for the majority.

Would you condone human drug testing trials knowing that hundreds would die so that tens of millions could live? Or draconian laws that punish criminals to the extent that there are only capital crimes? Would it be worth knowing that you are safe walking around after dark thinking that 20 innocent men hung so that a guilty one would as well?

I think that is both the promise and the terror of a one world "new world order" government. And are the gains worth the sacrifices?



posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 01:16 PM
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I'm personally convinced that money rules the world, including the politicians, world leaders, everything. So why wouldn't the people with the most money be the most powerful?



posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 04:19 PM
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"There might not be an organization now or there might be one already, it is inevitable and cannot be avoided. This organization can equally create a Utopia or a Dystopia depending on what they have prioratized. Either, human civilization and then power or power and then human civilization."
-Akutski



posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 05:56 PM
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I see no proof about the existence of Illuminati. The OP said he is going to give proof. Where is it? Personally, I don't believe that Illuminati exist.



posted on Jun, 23 2007 @ 01:07 AM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light
I would disagree that most people today would consider Weishaupt the ultimate evil. Indeed, I think most people who study the subject from an unbiased perspective would agree with him.

The Illuminati wanted freedom. They wanted to be able to read and write books without fear that the censors would arrest them and their families. They wanted to be able to seriously debate religious issues without being accused of heresy and witchcraft (and sent to the gallows).

They wanted to be actually able top determine their own leaders instead of having them appointed by a corrupt political elite. And they wanted to be able to publicly speak their minds without the same fear of arrest and persecution.

Today, we take all of this for granted. To the Illuminati, it was a dream not yet reached, and they had to be extremely careful even who they spoke of it with (and which led to the organization's extreme secrecy).


I agree, but you are saying work is already over, while it isn't. And in case Illuminati think work is over, well that would be weird and contrary to goals set. It's not yet completed and freedoms you mention are not possible to exercise in many parts of the world. Even more, some groups want to reestablish old ways of thinking and living and ruin all the good work so far.

My view about this - in case Illuminati v1 is over, we need Illuminati v2. Now i need to see if that is the case.


Originally posted by Marid Audran
Uhmmm... if everyone stands up against them, isn't that a new world order? And wouldn't you need some kind of leader to direct everyone? Logically, it is the only way and realistically on the most brutally oppressive dictator imaginable could unite everyone under them and keep them there.

I am curious if it would be worth it if under this dictator meant peace, harmony and prosperity for the majority.
(...)


You need coordination and cooperation between people, not just one selfish dictator. Most of the dictators you know are just stupid and uneducated fools, often easily manipulated and thus doomed. One man is not God but all the humanity together can be like God.

[edit on 23-6-2007 by sb2012]



posted on Jun, 23 2007 @ 01:33 AM
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I dont think that any group of people can do much of anything anymore..maybe small stuff, but as they get older and their kids dumber the power fades...now who fills the space left behind.....we get to worry about that.



posted on Jun, 23 2007 @ 02:45 AM
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Originally posted by ViewFromTheStars
...but I'm not worried about any 'illuminists' or NWO shill. Why? because I'm a die hard Christian and I believe what the Bible says and it is clear, these 'folks' pushing their globalist agenda are nothing but pawns of judgment in God's great plan. Are we near the point where the NWO will come to power for short time? Who knows for sure but everything is unfolding exactly as it should...

Hmmm...Yes & no.
I don't claim to be of any organized religion, because I've researched enough evidence to convince me that there are conspiritorial elements there too. However, I am Faithful to the Creator...In the Bible's Book of Revelations (of which you are obviously referring) & I don't really think that this is the way it should go. Revealtions are just that...A revealing of a truth. But unless you have no belief at all of the concept of "free will," then you're more likely to see Revelations as a "set-in-stone, inescapable future."

However, I look at Revelations in a different way; I see it as God's warning of what will happen if we, as His children, don't grow up! In His Way, I believe that He warns us what to watch out for & strive to avoid it.

And in that manner, I also believe that He would see a bit of His own Wisdom as He had granted it to us. God has been telling us what the consequences would be if we failed to mature in time...He's teaching us through Revelations! I believe that, by warning us, He doesn't want to see us go through the suffering that we wrought on ourselves. By recognizing the "anti-christ" (the various conspiratorial groups that "worship Mammon") that He warns of, we can beat it & win the battle of Armageddon before it actually happens.


Originally posted by sb2012
I believe mission of USA (and EU) is to unite the world, by force if necessary.

I am not sure if all this force is really needed. What does humanity gain from agony? (when in war or suffering from poverty and injustice)

Ahhh, but then what else is it that the Book of Revelations warn us about?...Unity by force.
What is Armageddon? Humanity throwing off the chains that were forged by force.
What is prophesized as coming after Armageddon? A reign of peace, under the philosophies of love & kindness (ie: the Way of God).

What if humanity comes to recognize the greed & power-lust represented by the "anti-christ" & take action against it before the actual Armageddon takes place? Humanity learns to mature at a much lesser cost than the actual Armageddon. But in any war, everyone must choose a side & work with it...The conspiratoral Secret Societies side with "evil", much of humanity will side with "good." However, there will be those who don't wish to choose a side or refuse to see that the war is coming...I liken the people who practice "selective vision" & "close-minded denial" to be like a proverbial grape in the road:
Envision a grape rolling down the road; If the grape rolls on one side of the road, it's safe. If the grape rolls on the other side of the road, it's safe. But if the grape rolls down the middle of the road...Squish!
Yep, definitely a disadvantage to try to remain neutral...



Originally posted by blowfishdl
I'm personally convinced that money rules the world, including the politicians, world leaders, everything. So why wouldn't the people with the most money be the most powerful?

Because the "money" that they use isn't based upon anything tangible, but instead based upon debt owed to those who use that money. Simply by using their money, you voluntarily place yourself in debt to them! I suggest you read the four links I provided in my previous post & even delve into a bit of your own research to confirm it for yourself.


Originally posted by TXMACHINEGUNDLR
I dont think that any group of people can do much of anything anymore..maybe small stuff, but as they get older and their kids dumber the power fades...now who fills the space left behind.....we get to worry about that.

This is where awareness, education & teaching the value of critical thinking comes into play...
I don't know if you have kids in school, but are you aware of what THEY are really teaching to your kids, or do you actually teach your kids yourself? Whether or not you personally have kids isn't the real issue here...But the point being made is. How can people do much of anything if so many people don't know what's going on? Divide & conquer is a prime tactic used by conspiratorial secret societies. Look at how is American society has been split up: Social classification, economic classification, racial classification, etc, etc, ad nauseum...American society is nothing more than a very large number of minority groups! By promoting dissention between all of these "minority groups," we've been divided to the point of being ineffective. What's needed in America is to teach people how much Americans have in common, not focusing on minor differences.



posted on Jun, 23 2007 @ 04:59 AM
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Originally posted by MidnightDStroyer
Ahhh, but then what else is it that the Book of Revelations warn us about?...Unity by force.
What is Armageddon? Humanity throwing off the chains that were forged by force.
What is prophesized as coming after Armageddon? A reign of peace, under the philosophies of love & kindness (ie: the Way of God).

What if humanity comes to recognize the greed & power-lust represented by the "anti-christ" & take action against it before the actual Armageddon takes place? Humanity learns to mature at a much lesser cost than the actual Armageddon. But in any war, everyone must choose a side & work with it...The conspiratoral Secret Societies side with "evil", much of humanity will side with "good." However, there will be those who don't wish to choose a side or refuse to see that the war is coming...I liken the people who practice "selective vision" & "close-minded denial" to be like a proverbial grape in the road:
Envision a grape rolling down the road; If the grape rolls on one side of the road, it's safe. If the grape rolls on the other side of the road, it's safe. But if the grape rolls down the middle of the road...Squish!
Yep, definitely a disadvantage to try to remain neutral...



Yes prophecies warn about that, now if we go against oppression and win, this is also like fighting Antichrist and restoring world order. But then again, some say Antichrist will lead people to fight against oppression. Not understanding what Antichrist represents led people to believe he is ultimate evil in form of a dictator leading war machine and corrupted elite. I believe Antichrist is someone who will trigger great changes and unleash great force which will tear apart old world order. For the better of humanity, not to enslave them.

Your view about taking action ad regarding prophecies as a warning is also very interesting too. I too believe future is not fixed.



posted on Jun, 23 2007 @ 05:05 AM
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I recommend everyone reads this article, especially those who still dont believe that the EU is the greatest threat to our civil liberties and freedom.

Former Soviet Dissident Warns For EU Dictatorship (Interview)

www.brusselsjournal.com...

Is it no coincidence that it was Germany that resurrected the dead EU constitution and wont take no for an answer. They failed during two world wars to take away our freedoms. Now there trying to use politics to do exactly the same thing and if people dont wise up soon, they might actually succeed. Germany plans to alter the EU's voting system, which favours the larger countries in the 27-nation bloc, basically countries with the biggest populations will call the shots. No coincidence then that it's Germany that has the biggest population in Europe.


ezinearticles.com...

Anger at EU talks as Germany hit by Nazi jibes

news.scotsman.com...
www.eubusiness.com...



posted on Jun, 23 2007 @ 11:30 AM
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Midnightdestroyer

Revelations are just that...A revealing of a truth. But unless you have no belief at all of the concept of "free will," then you're more likely to see Revelations as a "set-in-stone, inescapable future."




I hear you Midnight and of course I believe in free will but we don't have ultimate control over our circumstances. I can choose to walk off a 100 story building but we have little control over what happens to us save what apparatus we can devise like a glider or parachute to save us but there is always a chance that might not work as well and we have NO control over those chances. Hopefully you guys get the gist of what I'm saying.

For now we will just have to disagree, I take the Bible for face value and Revelations pretty much wraps things up. We are the God's great garden and in when our probation is up the great harvester is going to show up and sever the wheat from the tares and the things that are to happen before that are clearly spelled out. It's up to you if you want to believe it or not. I believe.

The 'corrupt' great men of the earth, the ones that deceived ALL nations are going to know their place of the end and it's not going to be what they thought.



posted on Jun, 23 2007 @ 12:02 PM
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Originally posted by sb2012


I agree, but you are saying work is already over, while it isn't.


Well, some of them envisioned toppling the Electorate, and replacing it with a democracy. Bavaria has seen many different forms of government since the time of the Illuminati, including the horrors of Nazism and Stalinism. Today, finally, it is a free state.


And in case Illuminati think work is over, well that would be weird and contrary to goals set. It's not yet completed and freedoms you mention are not possible to exercise in many parts of the world.


True, but the Illuminati were concerned only with Bavaria. Their "globalist" agenda was for the most part a fiction dreamed up by their persecutors, the Jesuits. The Illuminati wanted to do in Bavaria what our own forefathers did in the American Colonies. Many of them expected similar revolutions to fire up across the Continent, but they did not forsee direct Illuminati involvement.

The best way to get their idea is by reading the material that their members wrote. Weishaupt's book "In Defense of Illuminism", written while in exile, has unfortunately (to my knowledge) never been translated into English. However, practically all the writings by the great poet Goethe, who was also a Deputy in the Illuminati, have been translated, as well as the writings of Von Knigge and the Comte de St. Germaine, also Illuminati leaders and organizers.



My view about this - in case Illuminati v1 is over, we need Illuminati v2. Now i need to see if that is the case.


Strangely, you and I were just discussing on the Secret Societies board an organization who attempted to revive the Illuminati: the O.T.O.

When the O.T.O. was formed, Dr. Reuss made its 8th degree the Illuminati, and that degree is still conferred today by that Society.





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