What we need is a government that is willing to enforce the laws we already have.

We do not have such a government. From the president to the legislature they have demonstrated they do not have the political ability. They seem gutless for some reason. It seems that anyone who would stand up and say "we will stop the onslot, whatever it takes!" would receive incredible support. Have you noticed that the democratic congress has 14% support by the public currently and the Bush administration has similar approval? Ever wonder why?

Hmmm... If money was no object, wait, we're talking about the guy who's Pentagon admitted to losing 2.3trillion, BEFORE 9/11! So money is no object.

A cement block wall one foot thick and 25 feet high. Backed by 6 inches of steel then anothe foot thick wall of cement blocks to keep the Mexican military from using tanks to break through.(The military has fired on US Border Patrol before to let illegals get in)

On top would be electrified barb wire and a heat strip. What is this? A strip of metal that absorbs heat easily, I think copper is used, something like that. Anyways, what it's used for is to keep stuff like slugs out of gardens on the cheap. How does it work? In places where it gets hot, like the border, you put down a strip of this metal and it gets really really hot from the sun. Slugs can't cross it cause they burn up. Anyways, same concept but it helps to keep illegals from trying to go over the wall. Even better since we can spend trillions on this do something to make it even hotter so say they throw a thick rug over the barb wire the metal strip will set it on fire.

Have gaurd towers every hundred yards. Have 3-5 people in them with non lethal weapons at hand but also a real gun incase the Mexican military decides to attack like they have in the past.

The wall goes into the ground at least ten feet to keep them from digging under.

Right before the wall dig a three foot deep trench that is six feet wide. Helps prevent the attempt to drive through and makes it harder to use a ladder to climb over. Use this dirt to make a mud wall in front of the trench so the trench will technically be deeper as one would have to go over the compact mud wall to get to the trench.

Have spotlights on the Towers to point out the illegals and can be used to cause temporary blindness. Also good on the times they try to drive through a check point with a hummer or whatever. Blind them so the driver can't see and crashes.

If a illegal manages to get by they will have a simple chain link fence with barb wire to get by. But it will also have something like bells that make a lot of noise when something touches the fence. This should help the guards in the guard towers to spot them in case they got by.

Or if you really want to spend soe money...

For the trench set up a pipeline. What is in the pipeline? Natural Gas. Why? A moat of fire! See them get a ladder past that!

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by intrepid
I think you just described the Berlin Wall.

The Berlin Wall was erected by the East German Communists to keep East Germans from fleeing the horrible oppression of totalitarianism.

The wall or barrier proposed by Americans for our boarders is intended to keep others from entering our country illegally.

There's a huge difference.

Grady, a wall is a wall, no matter the purpose. What you descibed reminded me of the Berlin Wall.

I'm not sure why a Canadians should care one way or the other.

[edit on 2007/6/21 by GradyPhilpott]

Now I'm hurt Grady. A friend can't care about a neighbor? Thanks for showing what is wrong in America though. If it ain't American, it don't matter.

As to my concern it's sad to see a friend going from "The land of the free and home of the brave." to "the land of the caged and the home of the scared."

Do you know what is hilarious about all of this?

Where do you think the workers that are supposed to be building this wall would come from?

I mean seriously, if such a wall was to be built they would use Mexican labor to build it. If you go to any construction site, nearly half of the workers are Mexican/south American. Can you imagine the "quality" job that they would do in making a huge wall that would keep out their friends and family?

By whatukno:

Can you imagine the "quality" job that they would do in making a huge wall that would keep out their friends and family?

The people building the wall would be legal immigrants or they would not be hired. Legals in general do not favor open boarders and unlimited illegals coming in, ie. they want the illegals stopped like you and I do! Hispanics in my experience are great construction workers and would do a good job.

Originally posted by plumranch
Hispanics in my experience are great construction workers and would do a good job.

I can agree with you that Hispanics do a great job when they are on a site. I have worked with many of them and it is true that they do work very hard for their families.

However I disagree with the thought that they would do such a good job in creating something that would stop their fellow countrymen from entering the country. They themselves know firsthand what it is like back home. I would imagine they would be hard pressed to try and stop anyone from trying to escape that life and create a better one for themselves here in the US.

Im just saying that I think there may be a few undocumented holes in the wall when all was said and done.

by whatukno
may be a few undocumented holes in the wall when all was said and done.

I think you are correct but those are just problems for management to handle with building standards and inspections.

How about a system of interspersed automated detection stations? They could employ thermal, acoustic, and visual sensors and tracking systems. These sensors could direct automated turrets equipped with LRAD and ADS. UAVs would also be used to sweep the area for vehicles. Information collected from sensor net would be sent real-time to border patrol stations. Armed unmanned vehicles could be deployed to intercept violating vehicles at which point they could either escort it back across the border or disable it.

Another good idea would be to utilize ground penetrating radar to detect tunnel systems.

Using a system such as this the border could be secured with minimal personal and without the controversial image of a gigantic wall.

By wingman77:
How about a system of interspersed automated detection stations? They could employ thermal, acoustic, and visual sensors and tracking systems.

Sounds good. Would a 1/4 to 1/2 mile swath of vegitation and obstruction have to be cleared for these systems to work?

Thermal imaging and acoustic senors shouldn't be impeded by foliage I'd imagine. If the LRAD and ADS systems were elevated above the brush it shouldn't impede their effect.

Originally posted by thesun
Do you realise how much this will cost the tax payers, instead the money should be use to improve health care

Do you realize the BILLIONS of dollars that illegals cost Americans?
Do you realize that they flood hospitals and make it difficult for Americans to get taken care of?

Building a wall may cost money up front, but it will save billions on the other end.

The wall should be 20 feet high. 20 feet thick. 20 feet deep.
It should be armed and manned by our military.
We are fighting an invasion and the military is supposed to be
there to stop invasions.

Originally posted by intrepid
Thanks for showing what is wrong in America though. If it ain't American, it don't matter.

OF COURSE Americans look out for ourselves first. No one else will. We live here. We work here. We have to deal with life here. This is OUR country, not anyone elses. THEY look after their own country's needs first .. and we look after ours first.

That's not 'wrong'.

Originally posted by intrepid
"the land of the caged and the home of the scared."

No. It's 'land of those who are tired of the illegal invasion mucking up our country and costing us billions so we want to put a stop to it.'

[edit on 6/23/2007 by FlyersFan]

I think I saw a rendering on Futureweapons, or something like that. Anyhow, it was a dual enclosure fence, so basically, if you managed to jump over one, you would then have to cross some sort of autonomous gun-guard filled gauntlet, then jump over a fence of equal size to gain access to our country.

It seems to me that this is basically saying, in the future, if you try to enter our country as an illegal, we will kill you before you even make it halfway.

Anyone else see this before?

by Don Wahn:
It seems to me that this is basically saying, in the future, if you try to enter our country as an illegal, we will kill you before you even make it halfway

Hi! OP here, I stated in one of my opening posts that our political elements would probably not allow this wall/fense to cause anyone intentional injury. Our posters seem to like the "armed wall" idea, however! I like the heavily monitored vs. heavily armed version myself.

By wingman77:
hermal imaging and acoustic senors shouldn't be impeded by foliage I'd imagine. If the LRAD and ADS systems were elevated above the brush it shouldn't impede their effect.

Forgot to ask you what systems would best identify and filter out wildlife if that is possible? I'm NW rather that SW but I suppose wildlife would include lots of coyotes, dogs, cats, crows, buzzards, horses, cows, calves, deer, yetti (woops, probably not!), wild and domestic pigs. A pretty good range of body sizes and shapes!

Originally posted by thesun

Originally posted by plumranch
The Wall is the only effective solution to stop the flood of illegals. The question is what type of construction would be effective? Should it be tall, thick, go deep into the ground, be a double wall, have loads of monitoring equipment on it, have guards posted? What would work? What did the Isrealis build?

Do you realise how much this will cost the tax payers, instead the money should be use to improve health care

Don't build it and there won't be any affordable health care. Here in Arizona illegals have made getting into emergency rooms a nightmare. If you want to live in Norte Mexico, then ignore the need for border control. I for one have no desire to live in a third world country of the illegals making.

Hi! OP here, I stated in one of my opening posts that our political elements would probably not allow this wall/fense to cause anyone intentional injury. Our posters seem to like the "armed wall" idea, however! I like the heavily monitored vs. heavily armed version myself.

*************************************************************
I prefer to let people know that WE are the ones who control the border, not armed Mexican paramilitary, drug lords, gangs, and coyotes. Try crossing the border into Mexico at any border checkpoint. Go ahead and I will wait for the pieces of your body to be shipped back home. Our border is ours to control. Mexico does not allow border crossing and neither should we. Build the fence, plant the mines, let them know about it and that we mean to achieve control no matter what they try, then mow down anyone who makes it over the mine field. Maybe some of you have not heard about the armed gangs who start forest fires as a diversionary tactic, then slip through between the fire fighters. Or maybe you have not heard that our National Guard troops have been backed down by armed Mexican Military on our side of the border. LET THE MEXICANS FINISH DESTROYING THEIR OWN COUNTRY BEFORE THEY COME TO DESTROY OURS!!!

[edit on 6-25-2007 by groingrinder]

[edit on 6-25-2007 by groingrinder]

NOTHING SAYS STAY THE F*** OUT LIKE A GIANT WALL AND ARMED GUARDS! Just having sensors and cameras is not going to do the job. In the long run it will cost far more not to build a wall than it will cost to build it.

Originally posted by whatukno
Do you know what is hilarious about all of this?

Where do you think the workers that are supposed to be building this wall would come from?

I mean seriously, if such a wall was to be built they would use Mexican labor to build it. If you go to any construction site, nearly half of the workers are Mexican/south American. Can you imagine the "quality" job that they would do in making a huge wall that would keep out their friends and family?

I live in a house that was built by Mexicans during the building boom in Arizona. The day before yesterday my front door was rattling. Not just the door but the whole casing. I took off the trim and the only thing holding the casing to the house frame was the four bolts that attach the striker plate for the deadbolt. If you know anything about carpentry, then you know there is ALOT more than that to installing a door. I had to shim the darn thing in and plumb it up, spray in the insulating foam and reinstall the trim. There are numerous outlets that are loose, and our shingles blow off every monsoon. Don't tell me how good Mexican workers are. I also had to run a crew of Mexican painters and carpenters in Colorado. They were only interested in drinking and partying and not doing work. When I tried to get them to do the job they were hired for, they tried to intimidate me. The company I worked for eventually went bankrupt in spite of hiring cheap illegal labor.

I think the concertina wire idea is good, combined with a double wall made of high strength steel it should slow down the flood of illegals. It has to be equipped with motion sensors and cames though to alert the border patrol to a specific location. It also has to be monitored on a constant basis to make repairs. Nothing will keep out every single person but by forcing them to tunnels or other bottleneck solutions we can reduce the problem.

Groingrinder:
I prefer to let people know that WE are the ones who control the border, not armed Mexican paramilitary, drug lords, gangs, and coyotes

Good point, I agree. Now go convince Boxer, Feinstein, Hillary, etc. Even conservative republicans do not want to appear like mean old Americans with the armed wall issue. They're a bunch of wimps.