This is beyond ridiculous. But I guess nothing will happen until John McCain, George Bush and Nancy Pelosi's houses burn down.

We need to find the people who cross the border illegally and return them. If we can put a man on the moon, we can do this.

And at the same time, we must triple or quadruple LEGAL immigration and streamline the process to make it easier for people. We also need to recognize that no everyone coming here necessarily needs a bachelor's degree.

Lastly, we need to have a national, open discussion about what North America will look like in 20 years. You want to know something? I'm not necessarily wholly against a coalition with Canada and Mexico. But if our leaders are going to hide it from us, then I can't support it just on principle.

~~


Is this a brand new tactic or strategy to evade capture??

Or, has this type of thing been going on for awhile
and its just now getting attention??

I suspect that theres shallow latrines scattered thru the desert too,
but has that ever been brought up as health & disease factors,
that the hordes of illegals are perpetrating on the American people & land owners in those illegal migration corridors ??


someone is backing this media push that is putting the harsh spotlight
on the border jumpers, and painting tham as being less than poor souls
seeking a sanctuary & a possible better future for themselves and their future american-citizen offspring...
it seems that some media is pushing an agenda that the border jumpers are mostly of a criminal mindset and reckless to boot, in trafficking their
wares- - whether the wares are drugs, sex-slaves, indentured sweatshop workers, or contraband weapons/arms/explosives/biologicals

somethings going on......

Originally posted by St Udio
somethings going on......

Can you speculate as to what that is?

Originally posted by St Udio
someone is backing this media push that is putting the harsh spotlight
on the border jumpers, and painting tham as being less than poor souls
seeking a sanctuary & a possible better future for themselves and their future american-citizen offspring...

They are being painted that way because it's true - they are not merely the poor, innocent, well-intentioned day laborers seeking a better life. They are parasites who are draining our society and our economy.

it seems that some media is pushing an agenda that the border jumpers are mostly of a criminal mindset and reckless to boot, in trafficking their
wares- - whether the wares are drugs, sex-slaves, indentured sweatshop workers, or contraband weapons/arms/explosives/biologicals

Prove that they're not.

i suspect that the WOT & the drugwar are in a process of being ramped up
in the Mexico sphere of influence...

the US & its mouthpieces in media may be priming the public &
coercing Mexioco with the sabotage & scorched earth tactics that the drug & labor smugglers are exacting on the US mainland, as reason to buld up a multinational military presence....

or something

I'm not buying it. The War on Drugs is a policy which is like so many others, a source of pork-barrel funds and endless supply of cushy jobs for relatives and those who donate to campaigns. Every so often, it needs a new twist, a new "strategy", to ensure it's continued funding. The Annexation is nothing more than the latest installment.

No, if you want to put some teeth into border enforcement, we need to start upping the ante. Eliminate the "anchor baby" policy. Make border jumping a felony instead of a misdemeanor. Make hiring an illegal a felony. Get that wall built, and staff it with the military.

Enough pussyfooting around.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
This is the most important issue facing the U.S. today, I'd say even more important than Islamic terrorism.

The area in question has always been one of if not the most traveled routes by thei illgals.

I am willing to bet the illegals get a kick out of destroying the park.

yes it does need to be closed not only because of the illegal hispanics but also because terrorits have been alleged to use that route.

What makes it even worse is the drug runners also use the route but when confronted by ICE they shoot at our guards but our policy is not to shoot back.

Thanks for wheres the fence if you had not used it I would have,
love it.

[edit on 6/20/2007 by shots]

Originally posted by shots

This is the most important issue facing the U.S. today, I'd say even more important than Islamic terrorism.

Lets not forget that actual terrorists are being smuggled in by mexican gangs that are responsible for getting ppeople across the border.

This is sad and unfortunate. This bill better not pass. It has basically shown the final failure and betrayal (at least we hope) of this President. It also shows the failure and betrayal by the Democrats who were suppsedly much better than the Republicans but have NOT turned out that way.

If they wanted to start majorly deporting people...they could...but they won't. I have no problem with Mexicans wanting to become Americans, but don't disrespect us and our laws, and then expect to be Mexican and also AMERICAN. If you want citizenship, wave the American flag, speak english, and celebrate the 4th of July...not Cinco De Mayo.

That's how I feel about this mess.

djohnsto77
Paraphrase: This is the most important issue facing the US now...
Sorry but I seriously disagree with your thought here. I don't understand how important the illegal alien issue is in the United States but it's on the news and has been foe awhile, unfortunately.

This war both in Afghanistan & Iraq is causing extremism to do extreme things against us ( the west) for decades to come. Some bad stuff is going to happen, as with even calming the the new generations there would still take a generation to preclude mega-violence against us, I feel.

We're in a terribly bad state of future affairs for our Children.

Dallas

Kelldor,

Interesting Post. Your importance to-it seems formidable and pronounced. Let's all hope on this continent your anger toward the apparent US intrusions or wannabee intrusions are never interrupted with anything none of us can avoid or survive which was and is my priority point.

Midnight D

(Dallas, will do.)

fires, on our border?..thats it im calling DHS.."DHS?..Yes. - "hi Yes I want 5 divisions deployed immediately to the border with shoot-to-kill orders of anyone crossing the border." Thanks. -Roger that sir.

Originally posted by Dallas
djohnsto77

We're in a terribly bad state of future affairs for our Children.

Dallas

I agree with your statement that we are in a terrible state with respect to leaving a solid and well-secured America to our children. This issue is nothing-new IMO. Illegals have been getting across for decades and the Government has allowed it. I would venture to guess there is some back room deal with Mexico not to crack down to heavily. It is the saddest display of protecting the sovereignty of a country I have ever witnessed. I live in Northern VA Herndon to be specific and the MS13 local union is alive and well. The day worker site is overrun, the local employees who operate the fast food chains and pretty much any service available is non-English speaking. Now please don’t get me wrong I do not hold it against anyone for wanting a better life. I don’t blame them one bit, if i lived in Mexico i would want to get out of that toilet most Ricky tick to. I blame the government for not ensureing a safe and secure boarder.

And I also agree that this issue is the most important of our current issues.
What is going on in the Middle East will be happening for some time to come. Its now time to lock our boarders and only allow those in who do it legally. Its hard to say how many criminal entities have come in over the years, im sure it’s thru the roof. Terrorist will use this weakness again, you can bet on it. When i was stationed in Germany at the Fulda Gap if anyone crossed the East German Boarder they would be jammed immediately. And no, i don’t condone the politics of East Germany and Russia. I condone the way in which they secured the boarder. It’s sad to have to do that but it’s the only way and man it with the National Guard, hence the name.... Hello

Let me give you my cut-to-the-chase idea/vision on the whole "boarder security" issue and "illegal immigration" problem.

Boarder security: Vital to all nations in the world, from preventing drugs, terrorism (though ultra rare in North America, sort of pending on what kind of activity you consider "terrorist") to drugs and immigration. By NOT securing a boarder you not only allow illegals to run it, which destroys economies, but it also allows the drug cartels and smugglers to run amok. I am far more concerned with the later two than a million illegals. Why? The later 2 bring guns and organized crime with them, also corruption. However, in the case of North America we face a problem, we have a massive boarder, over 2000+ miles long we have to defend at all times, night and day. So how do you defend a boarder like this? You can not. Not alone at any rate, and also there are catches I will get into later. For now lets work on the defence. So you want more BP (Boarder Patrol) folks, ok, no problem... Maybe... First off to defend 2000 miles of boarder you need a couple hundred thousand people on the boarder, that is going to cost us a mint of money. So what is an alternative? Well a fence can be cut, land mines are barbaric and kill indiscriminately, UAVS are too few and cost too much... So what to do. Satellites, we are in a modern age where one satellite can patrol a vast area easily if it is programmed to follow unorthadox activities, yet this also costs too much. So let us use the satellites to keep UP THE MILISECOND communication going between the people on the boarder. Radio towers can be taken out by drug dealers remember? So lets keep going... A pit might work, if it is WIDE enough and DEEP enough, in short create a dry moat. Sure they will try and fill it in, but there is a second catch-22. The Mexicans. After all, they ARE comming from Mexico, so let us dangle the perverbial carrot in front of them: we slash ALL imports, ALL exports, ALL aid, ALL funding of whatever it may be and: "buddy we will just screw you up if you challange us any further" on this type of deal. Get the Mexicans to send their own people to the boarder and form a dual wall, one that faces INWARD, so no one can run away anymore. Yes this could be bad for those of us who believe in the NWO, but let us keep going. So due to this increase in numbers we can put LESS on the boarder because they will be supplying a certain percentage. Now yes, if they truely want them to inflitrate the USA and conquer it they WILL let them through, but this will only add fuel to the fire politicaly for US. Our areas are secure, have 0 people slipping in... Yet they have MILLIONS running by?!?! We can use this to force them to take action and also allow us to slash further aid to Mexico, also it will give us more reason to strengthen the boarder in the long run. So this is a political/defencive policy, it will serve two purposes. It will FORCE the Mexican government to take action, thus aleviating stress on our BP. Ok, now we have a 20 ft. deep pit by 50ft. wide, BP of BOTH nations running back and forth... But this will not solve anything in the long run, this is only to prevent the RAMPANT illegal immigration and PRIMARILY stop: Drug dealers and smugglers. So, now to tell you another problem we face, not with the illegals who are harmless in comparison to the other two groups I named off: In my own state there was an article in the newspaper that stated that the drug runners found a new way of slipping drugs in: they dug "rabbit holes" across the boarder. In short a small hole just wide enough for 1 small man to drag a box of drugs UNDERGROUND across the boarder, these tunnels went some 300-500 yards! How was this possible? They went to boarder towns, usualy ones that had an American town on one side, and a Mexican one not 200 yards away on the other. They used the sewer system to inflitrate the American cities and dug tunnels the rest of the way. They found HUNDREDS of these tunnels, some turned up in some peoples back yards behind a shed, others next to the garbage dumpster. Very hard to spot. So as you can see, we can NOT stop it completely this way. So lets go on to the LONG TERM solution shall we?

Ok, sure people are mad as hell on both sides about the buildup, some are scared of the implications, but let us run on the assumption that we have a decent government (HAH!). WHY do they come here? Well some come here to conquer the USA sure, we all know their names: Aztlan, La Raza and MeChA with their supplier: The Mexican Mafia along with the fact the US government is supplying them essentialy because of how things are run. Now WHERE DO THEY GO?! Easy: Corporations. These illegals are brought in by Wal-Mart, fast food companies, major food corporations that run slaughter houses (highly dangerous) and other such organizations that grow food and fruits. So let us solve part ONE by removing these same corporations, not only do they ship their labor overseas, but they also hire illegals! These corporations are beyond criminal in activity, so lets remove them. Let us open the door for smaller American owned and operated businesses to start, remove outsourcing, remove the illegal factor from production. Any company caught hiring them en mase: government seizer of the company, CEO's sent to jail for life and I mean STATE prison not the country clubs, and immediate resale of the company to the highest bidder that is American. Tyrannical in nature? Not really, more along the lines of PROTECTIVE. As for the people who hires illegals as maids and butlers... Well if we catch them they are fined HEAVILY and I mean MILLIONS of dollars and also serve state prison time, the illegal is also sent back... (deep breath) But also in the same sweep the people who can afford this are very, VERY few, so we have less to worry about, lets keep focusing on the major problem: corporations who hire them.
OK! So now we have things nearly settled here, so what happens if one DOES manage to get in (which they will, build a better mousetrap build a better mouse remember?) well in that case let us go over the degree of the illegal:
#1: "baby buster" illega-Illegal alien woman comes in ready to pop, pops in a hospital and demands that child be American. Access denied. The mother must have lived in the USA for a minimum of 5 years, be able to speak and read english and be ready to be naturalized as a citizen BEFORE we accept that. Any children born will be taken care of untill they are ready to be returned to their parents, and we send a bill to the Mexican government. If they refuse... Remember we can just shut off all that foreign aid and make their lives hell... Not to mention we could "fund" groups that believe in overthrowing them like the Zapatistas. Give the Zapatistas F-16's, anti-aircraft missiles, anti-tank missiles, modern guns and unlimited ammo... Yes this is called blackmail, but it will save both nations in the long run. Next off, the main reason they come here is for jobs, so now that they can not get jobs here they are desperate. Well we have already started to work on rebuilding our economy so now we can help them rebuild theirs. This is a way of solving things in the long run and I will go into it in the next post because it is telling me I am out of space.

Continued on next post.

CONTINUED:
Now back to the illegals before we go into the economy problem:
#2: Regular Runners-Ordinary illegal alien who runs the boarder, just send them on back, that easy.

Yes I left out the drug runners and smuggers, why? Shoot on sight if they shoot, if they do not we have prison labor that makes items like GLUE by now, so that is solved if we do not feel like spending the money to send them back. Just detain them for a long while so they pay off the price of sending them back then do exactly that.

OK! How DO we help the economy of Mexico? Build it up, they are 3rd world, however if we bring in technology that allows for recycling, producing their own food on a managable level, and all around help them get jobs... We will be helping them AND helping the USA at the same time. So let us share the technology on how to build a 1st world nation, we are not barbaric Nazis right? So lets give them what they need to build their nation up. After all what destroyed their economy was the same corporations who destroyed the US economy.

By now your either really ticked off and going to make a super long reply to this about how f'ed up it is and yada yada. Or your eyes are just about ready to fall out of your head. Anyway, before you do, just remember I have already tried to explain my ideals in real life IN DETAIL and I barely got through 2-3 subjects within 4 hours and there are hundreds upon hundreds going through my head. So if this sounds odd, it does, because I am taking what would take me a day to explain and trying to turn it into one or two posts. Also my mind goes faster than my fingers so if things sound funny that is another reason, my mind will be on paragraph three or four and my fingers are still on paragraph one.

Now for the primary purpose of this post:
They are desperate because there is nothing for them in Mexico, so they are more than willing to go to extremes to get here. However, I will not condone them WHOLELY for it, after all the USA is responsible in some ways, we let OUR corporations rape their nation... Read the book: Fast Food Nation and you will realize how messed up things are in Mexico because of the FOOD corporations alone! I do not consider moving factories to Mexico so they can spew more pollution and use slave labor as "helping" their economy. Also I had a woman at a college give a speech about the crime in Mexico brought by US corporations. Suprisingly it was the opposite of what most think, she talked about how many women have "dissapeared" and turned up brutaly raped and murdered in Mexico. All of them used to work for US based corporations, namely factories. I will try and dig up her papers, she gave me a copy of them and I will try and find it and post the sources, not going to promise anything, I am in process of moving so things are rather... Disorderly. Anyway, I will get back to you on that one.

So with all the crime, rape, murder, hopelessness, corruption, and all around pointlessness of staying in Mexico... What do they have to loose? Nothing, comming here is a 50/50 shot and they are more than willing. As the saying goes: "Drive people into desperation, they take desperate measures." And they have. Any shooting on the boarder I would suspect came from the drug cartels and smugglers more than the illegals and coyotes.

The boarder does need to be secured, but we need to secure it from the drug runners and smugglers more than anything else. Also, as for the illegal nutjob groups... Just deem them an illegal terrorist organization since they DO want to murder all non-latinos and just squash them. At the same time provide a helping hand to a neighbor and prove we are NOT barbarians like the La Raza, Aztlan and MeChA would have people believe about us. The one thing these groups hate more than anything else and FEAR more than anything else is being proven wrong nationaly and internationaly. So let us start on smashing their support basis by proving them wrong.


Ok, that was long winded, yet I have been waiting to say that one. If we ever hope of solving this we need to make it possible to live their lives without running boarders, now I hate the idea of spoon feeding someone, but they can not and WE can not do a DARN thing without our economy because we are ALL subject to the NWO/elites and corporations who do NOT want us united and working on solving our problems.

What must also be remembered is in all societies we have nutjobs, we in the USA have: KKK, Neo-Nazi, Skinhead, Mafia, Bloods, Crpyts, other like gangs, Black seperatists, White seperatists, and that just covers the non-corporates. We all have nutjobs, it is a matter of who gets the most air time, if all we did was broadcast said groups everyone in the world would think the USA is on the edge of catastrophy due to hate groups, that we were a hairs breath away from annihilating ourselves. We are not, we just want to annihilate the NWO/Elites and corporations, or at least I hope that is a popular theory which it appears to be.

Anyway, running out of space again so I will leave off here, I hope you realize now we are all being screwed because of the top 1% and their ilk, as well as a tiny handful of nutjobs on both sides which we ALL need to work on taking out collectively.

I do hope we can unite North America and the world eventually, however not at this rate, at this rate it will destroy all our nations and allow the elites to conquer the world. My ideal and dream is of a Federation, not an empire based on putting more power in the hands of the few and screwing the people.


Feel free to rage against me in PM so other people will not have to put up with it.