A question to the Masons who post on this board....

Ok this topic is not meant to start a argument but more or less ask a hypothetical question.

I have noticed there are many people who post in this forum that claim to be Masons and who also spend most of there time defending their organization and saying that Freemasonry is not evil, morally corrupt, or part of any conspiracy to control the world, etc.

My question to all of you is this.

Taking into account that there are many rich and powerful people who are Masons (mixed with everyday normal people) is it not possible that those people use there membership to make contacts with other people in positions of power to 'conspire' together to achieve a beneficial goal?

Thank you for your responses.

This happens in every sect of persons. Heck the football team who sits togetherin lunch halls across America are doing things to benefit eachother and aso are the other stereotypical classes of gents and ladies.

As far as Masonry, I am not blind I have seen people help people out. However if your looking for some large unfolding plot or scheme I can honestly say I have not seen this. The topic on han has lines and some people and groups break those lines. Dependings how you view this lines by law or ethics and morals. It happens in all areas of life. I would not see to my experience that in Masonry there is any emphasis on this. We all come for different reasons and most of the reasons coming each week is not for building some huge capital for a business or businesses. Without saying in deatil what is being built, on the other hand it is huge and of great importance.

As far as making connections, we make Brothers amd I must put empasis on true brothers. We would do anything for eachother and yes we work for great goals of importance that will be left unsaid here as with brothers, lodges can differ slightly to. I would imagine as most of us study the deepest forms of philosophy,history and religion. There grows to be no point to consipre in a great act of something negative. Not to sound boastful but why would a scholar od Freemaosnry desire to conspire. YOu get to level where there are so many great gains without the need of conspiracy or other forms of negative element.

My last name is Mason, does that count?

Craftsmen thanks for you detailed answer!

You are right the question I posed does happen in any grouping of people so my point is that knowing that it does and can happen within a group of high level masons how can you unequivocally say there are no members within the group conspiring to do some of the things your group is charged with being part of?

Originally posted by SaucyRossy
how can you unequivocally say there are no members within the group conspiring to do some of the things your group is charged with being part of?

We can't. Masons are still human.

What we can say unequivocally though is that the masonic doctrine is very specific about never proposing or countenancing any act which may have a tenancy to subvert the peace and good order of society. We are charged to pay due obedience to the laws of our country.

Any mason who uses his contacts in masonry for business or political gain is acting very unmasonic and acting against the principles of masonry, but I am sure it still happens. Just like someone selling Amway products to their church members. Since I have joined masonry I have never seen a hint of this in my lodge. Mine is a large lodge only a few miles from the state capitol building and I expected to see a few high powered politicians or business people rubbing elbows. The fact is, it is more innocent then anybody on the outside would likely believe. Much of my lodge consists of blue collar workers, many of them current and ex-military, lots of retired guys, truck drivers, but no politicians that I know of, no billionaires or super rich.

Becoming a mason is not too difficult and I am sure some have done it for selfish reasons but you could take all the powerful people in the world and make a stronger common connection to golf then to masonry. But the strongest common connection of all would be wealth and power. Those who can... do. The world is run by a powerful few. Some work for the good of man, and the rest do not. Throughout history those powerful men who were masons seemed to be more likely to have a good influence on mankind. Masonic ideals have always been against monarchy and tyranny, alway pushing for a republic and civil liberty. Many masons take due note of the past civilizations that flourished and those that fell. The USA was founded on principles that they hoped would keep us a free nation. Unfortunately lazy people seldom hold on to their freedom for very long. And when people finally lose their liberty through apathy, they will probably blame the ones who gave it to them in the first place.

Hi SaucyRossy

Originally posted by SaucyRossy
I have noticed there are many people who post in this forum that claim to be Masons and who also spend most of there time defending their organization and saying that Freemasonry is not evil, morally corrupt, or part of any conspiracy to control the world, etc...

This is an interestingly phrased observation. Have the freemasons on this site given any cause for you to question their claims?

Taking into account that there are many rich and powerful people who are Masons (mixed with everyday normal people) ...

The number of rich and powerful people who are masons is a paultry micro-minority in the overall membership numbers. I certainly wouldn't describe the numbers as 'many'.

... is it not possible that those people use there membership to make contacts with other people in positions of power to 'conspire' together to achieve a beneficial goal?

Yes, this is absolutely possible.

Thank you for your responses.

You're welcome

What a rediculous statement,thats like saying every person that wears a beard is a pacifist,or a biker,thats quite an assumption

To Trinity:

Thanks for your response and no there has not been any one that has posted here that have given me a reason to question there responses my questioning is because while all of you who do post here may be noble and be good people you can not say that it isn't possible that other members are conspiring to do bad. It really was a simple question just to prove that while Mason law and the such forbid such things, we all know that people can be corrupt and keep that fact hidden well.


To Red Pill:
As I said in my first post "that there are many rich and powerful people who are Masons (mixed with everyday normal people)" in Freemasonry.

So no I don't believe all Masons are fortune 500 CEOs but the fact remains throughout history there have been very notable rich and powerful people who were Masons and for all I know there still are and for all I know and all you know they do/still conspire together through Masonry.

I have no doubt that at it's base Freemasonry is a good thing and I have even often thought of trying to join.

Check also this thread for similar info.

Few colorful links:
The Masonic Foundations Of The United States
Washington D.C. and Masonic/Luciferic Symbology
Masonic and Kabbalistic Symbols in the Washington, D.C.
Satan on Our Dollar!

Of course, you are just exploring esoteric and have absolutely no power. Fine, be that way.

Well, if you really think that "Satan is on our dollar", you may send all of yours to me. I'd hate to have you walking around with all that devil stuff in your wallet, so I'll help out as best I can.

Why would i do that? I accepted Satan as my savior.

BTW, some of the links may lead to fundamental Christian pages, but still a lot of interesting info.

Originally posted by SaucyRossy
Thanks for your response and no there has not been any one that has posted here that have given me a reason to question there responses my questioning is because while all of you who do post here may be noble and be good people you can not say that it isn't possible that other members are conspiring to do bad. It really was a simple question just to prove that while Mason law and the such forbid such things, we all know that people can be corrupt and keep that fact hidden well.

Agree with you 100% on this one. The point I hope that I am getting across is that any conspiring between people who happen to be members of freemasonry is not likely to be the fault of freemasonry per se, particularly as it esposes high moral standards and care for other people as key tenets. I don't think anyone here would suggest that someone must be "good" simply because he is a freemason, any more than it is unfair to say someone is "bad" for the same reason.

But surely an organization which teaches consideration for others and the value of Truth and Integrity would not be the best recruiting ground for those intent on greedy and malicious activities.

but the fact remains throughout history there have been very notable rich and powerful people who were Masons and for all I know there still are and for all I know and all you know they do/still conspire together through Masonry.

Not through masonry, but perhaps in spite of it.

A quote from a masonic ritual for you...

In a society so widely extended as Freemasonry, the branches of which are spread over the four quarters of the globe, it cannot be denied that we have many members of rank and opulence; neither can it be concealed that among the thousands who range under its banners, there are some who, perhaps from circumstances of unavoidable calamity and misfortune, are reduced to the lowest ebb of poverty and distress.

It takes all sorts to make a lodge...

I have no doubt that at it's base Freemasonry is a good thing and I have even often thought of trying to join.

The value of freemasonry to the individual extends far beyond the base, SaucyRossy

Originally posted by sb2012
Why would i do that? I accepted Satan as my savior.

Oh....well that's ok, then.

BTW, some of the links may lead to fundamental Christian pages, but still a lot of interesting info.

I guess it depends on how one defines "interesting".

I have found more people in my church that use connections for personal gain than I have ever seen in any lodge.

My experience in my Lodge leads me to believe that these are some of the most squared- away folks you could ever deal with. (Sorry for the pun)

I can further attest that I have associated with much more nefarious and unsavory people in the past who would do just about anything alone or in concert to manipulate and twist any situation to their individual or group benefit.

I am also aware that any group of people can also be populated with individuals who can be unscrupulous and conniving if it suits their purposes. I have not yet observed this in my Lodge. I'm sure that Masons, like all other groups, have men who could use their associations to benefit and enrich themselves if they choose to. But I think that kind of behavior is not what is taught in the Lodge.

I think that the whole idea of men congregating in Lodges and coming together to share common beliefs and teaching each other appropriate behavior in society is a noble and virturous cause. This thinking has survived several centuries and I suppose it will continue to survive if enough men believe it is a worthy venture. Civil discourse and behavior are seemingly in short order of late, in my opinion.

The Lodge provides a safe and congenial setting for men to continue teaching civil social behavior.

What about current issues, for example are people in lodges concerned about plans of some elite to microchip every citizen and turn off his microchip when he doesn't comply with all the gestapo rules? Aaron Russo was told about that when he talked to one of the Rockefeller's.

I am curious, if people inside societies actually address these issues or do something about them, or support them, or are just busy studying old thorough-history-suppressed sciences?

Originally posted by sb2012
What about current issues, for example are people in lodges concerned about plans of some elite to microchip every citizen and turn off his microchip when he doesn't comply with all the gestapo rules? Aaron Russo was told about that when he talked to one of the Rockefeller's.

Freemasonry is about improving the man, not the world. Talking about the issues you raise above, and indeed all religious or political talk, is banned at lodge.

I am curious, if people inside societies actually address these issues or do something about them, or support them, or are just busy studying old thorough-history-suppressed sciences?

Freemasonry itself has got nothing to do with addressing these issues. However, individual freemasons will have much to say about these things, no doubt.

Banned or not, it could be smart to talk about issues, especially with all the politicians and people in power inside. They could convince some of the crazy to be a bit more humane. But that means less profits so its a big challenge for the ones who are greedy.

Logic behind this is, when you have bombs above your head, threats about micro-chipping and forced vaccination and similar brave new stuff, people are not exactly interested in spiritual, but just to remain normal. So, it would be more effective to address these issues AND talk about spiritual progress.

Originally posted by sb2012
Banned or not, it could be smart to talk about issues, especially with all the politicians and people in power inside.

But we don't go to the Lodge to talk about issues, we go there to practice Freemasonry. Profane politics have no place within the sacred precincts of the Lodge. When the Lodge door is closed, the contamination of the outer world should not invade the purified environment of an inititiatory society.

They could convince some of the crazy to be a bit more humane. But that means less profits so its a big challenge for the ones who are greedy.

Not at all. Charity is the very first lesson that Mason learns in the very first degree of his initiation. Judging from the marvelous success of organized Masonic charities, as well as the charitable dispositions of individual Masons themselves, this was a lesson well learned.

SaucyRossy:

I have no doubt that at it's base Freemasonry is a good thing and I have even often thought of trying to join.

from Trinity
The value of freemasonry to the individual extends far beyond the base, SaucyRossy

Trinity thx for that i agree for sure.

I have to agree with you on your views here. All I have seen in my life tells me Freemasonry is a base of good and compassion. I have lived around freemasonry all my life (42 years) I to am coming to a decision about following the men in my family into freemasonry. I have nothing but great respect for what freemasonry stands for.

A few bad apples doesnt spoil the whole harvest. As well I think corruption exsist in any group of people where power and status is present.

[edit on 24-6-2007 by geemony]

[edit on 24-6-2007 by geemony]