weird patent question: calling all lawyer-ish types

I'm a profilic thinker, if I may say so myself. For some fun I'd like to set up a website that acted as an "ip bank" for all my ideas. It would work like this:

People would pay X amount a month for access to all of the ideas. Each idea would be documented on paper, with all supporting drawings and references. I'd get all ideas notarized at the end of every week.

If someone say a good idea they wanted they'd pay Y amount for it. For this they get several things: The idea is removed from the site, so no one else knows about it, I sign over my IP rights to the idea and they receive all the documentation in the mail.

Now here's my question:

(It's happened before) What happens if I sell an idea that's already been patented? To the best of my knowledge, it hadn't been invented. Is a discliamer enough?

If that's a big no-no, then can such a site accept donations?

I would sell these ideas because I simply don't have the time to implement them and I might as well make some money off of my thoughts, right?

Any thoughts?

Where's the colonel when we need him?

I'm not a lawyer my self, but if it's already been patented, doesn't the guy who did own all right over the idea? (not sure about that)

well i gave this some thought and I remembered that the patent grants the inventor the right to license or sell the invention. So then the question becomes, what consitutes an invention? Is it the implementation or the idea written on paper?

I'm going to call the patent office tmmrw anyway. I'm afraid I know what the answer is...

EDIT-
" A patent, IF you can get one for your invention, merely gives you, mostly at your own trouble and expense, "the right to exclude others from making, using, offering for sale or selling the invention throughout the United States or importing the invention into the United States."

I also know that ideas are free. If I'm selling an idea that has become an invention by virtue of being patented, am I offering the invention for sale? I think I'm brushing up against some gray, vague areas of ideas, literary copyrights and patents.

[Edited on 7-1-2004 by DramaQueen]

Originally posted by DramaQueen
I'm a profilic thinker, if I may say so myself. For some fun I'd like to set up a website that acted as an "ip bank" for all my ideas. It would work like this:

People would pay X amount a month for access to all of the ideas. Each idea would be documented on paper, with all supporting drawings and references. I'd get all ideas notarized at the end of every week.

If someone say a good idea they wanted they'd pay Y amount for it. For this they get several things: The idea is removed from the site, so no one else knows about it, I sign over my IP rights to the idea and they receive all the documentation in the mail.

Now here's my question:

(It's happened before) What happens if I sell an idea that's already been patented? To the best of my knowledge, it hadn't been invented. Is a discliamer enough?

If that's a big no-no, then can such a site accept donations?

I would sell these ideas because I simply don't have the time to implement them and I might as well make some money off of my thoughts, right?

Any thoughts?

Well first of all, I am not too familiar with patent law but I would surmise that the owner of a patent that you sold...well.

I would assume you could sell the specs to the patent since its publicized and easily accessible at the US Patent and Trademark Office....for free or a minimal fee...or it it? In any event, if somneone wants to be dumb enough to pay you for specs which they can access at the the US Patent Office, more power to you.

But, are YOU the owner of the patents? Then, you can sell to whomever you want or license for a number of years.

[Edited on 7-1-2004 by Colonel]

Well the question is what happens if I'm not the owner of the patent. What if i never knew patent existed, can i still sell "specs" on it?

An example: Genius ktpr comes up with an idea for a paper clip. Unfortunately the island he lives on has no paperclips and he doesn't know that paperclips are patented.

He writes up a little idea sketch, get's it documented and throws it up on his fancy website. Someone sees the idea, has no clue about paperclips, and buys the documentation. Have I infringed? Can I be sued?

Originally posted by DramaQueen
Well the question is what happens if I'm not the owner of the patent. What if i never knew patent existed, can i still sell "specs" on it?

An example: Genius ktpr comes up with an idea for a paper clip. Unfortunately the island he lives on has no paperclips and he doesn't know that paperclips are patented.

He writes up a little idea sketch, get's it documented and throws it up on his fancy website. Someone sees the idea, has no clue about paperclips, and buys the documentation. Have I infringed? Can I be sued?

I don't know. You may have a duty to check (at the Patent office) if your idea was not already created. I really don't know. I do believe there is a duty to check to see if there a similar trademark or tradename in the country if you have created one yourself---so as to avoid confusion to the public.

I would assume the same applied for patents.

[Edited on 7-1-2004 by Colonel]

It's interesting ... i've gotten a variety of answers. I suspect I'm running into different mind sets and I'm not about to see whose right by battling in court. This is the reply I got from usenet:

-----

ktpr wrote:
> I'm a prolific thinker, if I may say so myself.

Can you actually prove it ?
The following comments are not meant as a flame, but as "facts" that you
are unaware of, these facts are based on real world experiences of IP
professionals

> For some fun I'd like
> to set up a website that acted as an "ip bank" for all my ideas. I
> would basically sell documented ideas that I came up with.
>

No you will never "sell" any of your "ideas",, you can't even "give"
them away, NO oNe will bother with them.

> It would work like this:

No, you "believe" it will work like this

>
> People would pay X amount a month for access to all of the ideas.

Ok, what major successful "ideas" have you come up with, that you can
clearly lay claim to, without anyone questioning that they were yours ?

You will need around 100 successful Ideas that have become successful
products, for """'ANYONE"""" to pay a monthly fee (even 1 dollar a month).

>
> If someone saw a good idea they wanted they'd pay Y amount for it. The
> idea is removed from the site, so no one else knows about it, I sign
> over my IP rights to the idea and they receive all the documentation
> in the mail.

You would not have any "IP rights" to sell, unless you had the idea
patented, or at least patent pending.

I personally have licensed many "inventions" that were not patented or
patent pending at the time they were licensed. This is a very, very
complicated process, that took me many years to learn and develop. There
are few people in the world that have done it, and almost none that have
done it more than once, my self and another handful being the exception

>
> Now here's my question:
>
> What happens if I sell an idea that's already been patented?

It is called "Fraud" , you would just go to jail, and perhaps be sued
on top of that.
WHat is to keep you from getting all your "ideas" from other's IP?
Each Idea sold would require a prior art search (at your expense)

> Is a
> disclaimer enough?

No

>
> If that's a big no-no, then can such a site accept donations?

HAHAHAHA , in your dreams

>
> I would sell these ideas because I simply don't have the time to
> implement them

You and 2.5 million other dreamers, who are too LAZY to do the actual
work involved in inventing

> and I might as well make some money off of my thoughts,
> right?

Only if you have the track record of Edison

>
> Any thoughts?

You don't have a chance in Hell of making a dime with this approach, by
the way you are far from the first person to get "this" idea, they all
failed. WHat makes you think your the first to come up with any of your
"ideas" ?

>
> Thank you very much for your time.

I know you don't know this, but there is no market for Ideas, everyone
has ideas, everyone! and there are millions of people who have huge
numbers of them. Every one of these people dream of having a job in a
think tank, none of them have the qualifications required for one of
those jobs, even "just" having a Ph.D. does not meet the requirements,
but it is required, just to get an interview

I believe my answer was best. If you don't know, say you don't know but I do believe that you may have a duty to check at the Patent office but, again, I am not sure. I do not do patent and Trademark law.

What I might do in the future, is pay for an hour of a patent attorney's time and ask. Or maybe half an hour There are "idea sites" out there, but they are very "wimpy".

I think that's the best idea I've heard so far. Make sure you can write off his time as a business expense whn he charges you.