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God - Created by Fiction

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posted on Jan, 7 2004 @ 07:47 PM
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I don't know if there has already been a thread on this, I checked the search and found no matches - So i guess not.

Anyway I heard a non-believer of God argue why God isn't real, I sort of liked it.

His main point is that if God is mighty and powerful why does he let evil persons rise to power - Satan or Lucifer.

His answer was comparing that to a story - A good guy and a bad guy. If the good guy was all powerful, there would be no bad guy right? and no one would buy it!

If the good guy is faulty the story becomes interesting, same thing in God - God is faulty and lets the Satan or Lucifer grow, but at the end wins.

Stories like that gain popularity - Christianity is famous.




posted on Jan, 7 2004 @ 07:58 PM
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Originally posted by surfup
I don't know if there has already been a thread on this, I checked the search and found no matches - So i guess not.

Anyway I heard a non-believer of God argue why God isn't real, I sort of liked it.

His main point is that if God is mighty and powerful why does he let evil persons rise to power - Satan or Lucifer.

His answer was comparing that to a story - A good guy and a bad guy. If the good guy was all powerful, there would be no bad guy right? and no one would buy it!

If the good guy is faulty the story becomes interesting, same thing in God - God is faulty and lets the Satan or Lucifer grow, but at the end wins.

Stories like that gain popularity - Christianity is famous.


That's like saying World War II is fiction because it's a good story.



posted on Jan, 7 2004 @ 08:00 PM
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Alright, look at it this way....

God is testing their faith if they believe in him enough that even the worse goes on, they will still love him. So, in other words it is all a test if we have faith in him. As humans, we don't have the capability of figuring out why God would put us on a test if he already knows what will happen. It is all faith...



posted on Jan, 7 2004 @ 08:03 PM
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"Don't believe in God for he/she may be the Devil in disguise"

Doesn't that sound interesting?



posted on Jan, 7 2004 @ 08:07 PM
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God gave everyone free-will, this is how Satan is able to decieve everyone. Because of his free-will. I dont think God knows what we will do, as part of our free-will, this is why He tests us.



posted on Jan, 7 2004 @ 08:11 PM
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OK...so if he DOESN'T know what we're gonna do, does he seem more like human to you. He created this whole universe according to the Bible and he can't tell what these puny creatures are gonna do? The how does he know that we have done some thing bad because there are so many of us? close to 7 billions is the figure



posted on Jan, 7 2004 @ 08:24 PM
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Originally posted by Jazz
OK...so if he DOESN'T know what we're gonna do, does he seem more like human to you. He created this whole universe according to the Bible and he can't tell what these puny creatures are gonna do? The how does he know that we have done some thing bad because there are so many of us? close to 7 billions is the figure


You're trying to think of God in logical terms. Well, im sorry to tell you, but you cant. God is omi-present. God doesnt know what we will do because He gave us free-will!!!!! Would you rather not have free-will and have him know what you were gonna do? So you could blame Him? God doesnt want this! He loves all of us and only wants us to come to Him, but many will be lost, He doesnt know exactly who will and who wont because we have free-will, and many will lose their faith.



posted on Jan, 7 2004 @ 08:24 PM
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There's no light without shadows, no good without evil, and no order without disorder.

So if God exist, doesn't necessarly mean that Satan doesn't. (just my opinion)



posted on Jan, 7 2004 @ 08:28 PM
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Originally posted by AlecEiffel

Originally posted by Jazz
OK...so if he DOESN'T know what we're gonna do, does he seem more like human to you. He created this whole universe according to the Bible and he can't tell what these puny creatures are gonna do? The how does he know that we have done some thing bad because there are so many of us? close to 7 billions is the figure


You're trying to think of God in logical terms. Well, im sorry to tell you, but you cant. God is omi-present. God doesnt know what we will do because He gave us free-will!!!!! Would you rather not have free-will and have him know what you were gonna do? So you could blame Him? God doesnt want this! He loves all of us and only wants us to come to Him, but many will be lost, He doesnt know exactly who will and who wont because we have free-will, and many will lose their faith.



OK wouldn't he wan to "control" us and keep and eyes on us? Wouldn't he want his creatures to be just like angles and screened away from evil?



posted on Jan, 7 2004 @ 08:33 PM
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Originally posted by Jazz

Originally posted by AlecEiffel

Originally posted by Jazz
OK...so if he DOESN'T know what we're gonna do, does he seem more like human to you. He created this whole universe according to the Bible and he can't tell what these puny creatures are gonna do? The how does he know that we have done some thing bad because there are so many of us? close to 7 billions is the figure


You're trying to think of God in logical terms. Well, im sorry to tell you, but you cant. God is omi-present. God doesnt know what we will do because He gave us free-will!!!!! Would you rather not have free-will and have him know what you were gonna do? So you could blame Him? God doesnt want this! He loves all of us and only wants us to come to Him, but many will be lost, He doesnt know exactly who will and who wont because we have free-will, and many will lose their faith.



OK wouldn't he wan to "control" us and keep and eyes on us? Wouldn't he want his creatures to be just like angles and screened away from evil?


He doesnt infringe on our free-will. Believe it or not, He does keep his eyes on us, all the time, but not many people listen to Him. God can only do so much, he cant help people who dont help themselves.



posted on Jan, 7 2004 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by Jazz
"Don't believe in God for he/she may be the Devil in disguise"

Doesn't that sound interesting?


Now where have I heard that before?????

Ohh. I remember it was my signature I erased couple of weeks ago.



posted on Jan, 7 2004 @ 08:46 PM
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Originally posted by surfup

Originally posted by Jazz
"Don't believe in God for he/she may be the Devil in disguise"

Doesn't that sound interesting?


Now where have I heard that before?????

Ohh. I remember it was my signature I erased couple of weeks ago.


Yeah that's why i quoted it. I just couldn't remember where i read it from



posted on Jan, 7 2004 @ 08:59 PM
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Originally posted by AlecEiffel
He doesnt infringe on our free-will. Believe it or not, He
does keep his eyes on us, all the time, but not many people listen to Him. God can only do so much, he cant help people who dont help themselves.


It is my oppinion that religion is meant to make us hope for a future. If someone is in critical condition in a coma or accident and the Doctors have gave up on them, what will you do? Most pray, not that it curest the sick, but gives hope to the one that prays.

Praying is a way of telling yourself that what you want to happen is going to happen, that is if you believe in God.

The thing is most of us don't accept we simply can't comprend every thing in this universe.

If you look at the trend that is happening for a long time, we are getting more and more knowledge and we being to question the long-held beliefs.

Before we believed earth was in the center, people who believed in that died holding it (like the people now who do the same thing), and now we look down at them.

In the same way most of world before believed in God before, now quite a minority doesn't. In the long future no one will.

If God is all powerful why doesn't he just stop all the killing in the world, take power and let his childern be in harmony and happiness?

People argued that he gave us free will and didn't participate in our affairs and let us govern ourself.

If that is so then why do we need him? For all we care he is just a spectator nothing else, then why do millions worship him and a few die for him.



posted on Jan, 7 2004 @ 09:43 PM
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Originally posted by surfup

Originally posted by AlecEiffel
He doesnt infringe on our free-will. Believe it or not, He
does keep his eyes on us, all the time, but not many people listen to Him. God can only do so much, he cant help people who dont help themselves.


It is my oppinion that religion is meant to make us hope for a future. If someone is in critical condition in a coma or accident and the Doctors have gave up on them, what will you do? Most pray, not that it curest the sick, but gives hope to the one that prays.

Praying is a way of telling yourself that what you want to happen is going to happen, that is if you believe in God.

The thing is most of us don't accept we simply can't comprend every thing in this universe.

If you look at the trend that is happening for a long time, we are getting more and more knowledge and we being to question the long-held beliefs.

Before we believed earth was in the center, people who believed in that died holding it (like the people now who do the same thing), and now we look down at them.

In the same way most of world before believed in God before, now quite a minority doesn't. In the long future no one will.

If God is all powerful why doesn't he just stop all the killing in the world, take power and let his childern be in harmony and happiness?

People argued that he gave us free will and didn't participate in our affairs and let us govern ourself.

If that is so then why do we need him? For all we care he is just a spectator nothing else, then why do millions worship him and a few die for him.


You make a good point about people praying for thigns and not getting them (people dying in hospitals). We dont always get what we want because we dont whats best for us, when I pray, I usually say " Thy will, not mine, be done" Which just basically tells God to do what He needs to do because He knows whats best, and I dont. He doesnt stop all the killing in the world because He didnt do it, man did. And what can be learned from anythign if God has to step in everytime man messes up? Again, He doesnt infringe on our free-will. You seem to be confused on free-will, he DOES participate in our affairs, probalby not how you would like Him to, but He does, a part of free-will is God letting people choose to not believe in Him.



posted on Jan, 8 2004 @ 06:18 PM
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Originally posted by AlecEiffel
He doesnt stop all the killing in the world because He didnt do it, man did. And what can be learned from anythign if God has to step in everytime man messes up? Again, He doesnt infringe on our free-will.


God didn't do all the killing, but he created man who does all the killing, so God is responsible for all the killing.

If he does step in, we will learn something. Dealth is not like life, if you mess up in one place you can correct it in another, if you kill someone you kill them. Everything for them is over.

Think about this, what world will be like if God proves his existence or what world will be like if no one believes in God?



posted on Jan, 8 2004 @ 07:02 PM
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Originally posted by surfup

Originally posted by AlecEiffel
He doesnt stop all the killing in the world because He didnt do it, man did. And what can be learned from anythign if God has to step in everytime man messes up? Again, He doesnt infringe on our free-will.


God didn't do all the killing, but he created man who does all the killing, so God is responsible for all the killing.

If he does step in, we will learn something. Dealth is not like life, if you mess up in one place you can correct it in another, if you kill someone you kill them. Everything for them is over.

Think about this, what world will be like if God proves his existence or what world will be like if no one believes in God?


God isnt responsible for the killing. When He created man He didnt create them with the intention of them sinning, so if you would like to blame someone for all these deaths then Eve would be a good start, and not God. God proves His existence to anyone who is willing to hear Him. If people dont believe in God its not His problem, anyone can have a relationship with Him if they give it an honest, earnest shot. I dont mean "God, if you exist, then move this rock!"



posted on Jan, 8 2004 @ 10:58 PM
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ah, Alec,

God isn't responsible for killing ? Well, I'll agree with you there, I don't belive in God period!

Let's just imagine that I do for a moment. (Hell, I went to church for thirteen years). OK, blame Eve (theres an original concept, blame someone else), it's her fault. She, a creation of "the Most High", listens to the Serpent, (another creation of said most high) and sin comes into the world, and death, famine, and disease soon follow.

Oh, and she exercised that free will you were talking about a couple of posts back. You remember, that little gift that god gave us?

You can slice and spin it anyway you want, but that god that christians will defend to the point of death and the limits of lunacy, that God that none can prove exists, if real IS IN FACT THE ROOT CAUSE OF ALL EVIL IN THE WORLD!!!

BTW, you say that he did not create man with the intention of them sinning. Supposedly he is Omnicient, meaning he knows all. His intentions are worthless if he KNEW that man would inevitebly fall.




God proves His existence to anyone who is willing to hear Him. If people dont believe in God its not His problem, anyone can have a relationship with Him if they give it an honest, earnest shot. I dont mean "God, if you exist, then move this rock!"


Alec, you are again forgetting what the book says. "god is not willing that one should perish" (though he proved that one wrong with the Flood), so it is his problem.

And what do you mean? How should I ask god to prove his existance? How did you do it? Dying to know.


I am eager for a response, This thread will give me something to do.

[Edited on 1/8/2004 by JuanBond]



posted on Jan, 9 2004 @ 01:13 AM
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Originally posted by JuanBond
ah, Alec,

God isn't responsible for killing ? Well, I'll agree with you there, I don't belive in God period!

Let's just imagine that I do for a moment. (Hell, I went to church for thirteen years). OK, blame Eve (theres an original concept, blame someone else), it's her fault. She, a creation of "the Most High", listens to the Serpent, (another creation of said most high) and sin comes into the world, and death, famine, and disease soon follow.

Oh, and she exercised that free will you were talking about a couple of posts back. You remember, that little gift that god gave us?

You can slice and spin it anyway you want, but that god that christians will defend to the point of death and the limits of lunacy, that God that none can prove exists, if real IS IN FACT THE ROOT CAUSE OF ALL EVIL IN THE WORLD!!!

BTW, you say that he did not create man with the intention of them sinning. Supposedly he is Omnicient, meaning he knows all. His intentions are worthless if he KNEW that man would inevitebly fall.




God proves His existence to anyone who is willing to hear Him. If people dont believe in God its not His problem, anyone can have a relationship with Him if they give it an honest, earnest shot. I dont mean "God, if you exist, then move this rock!"


Alec, you are again forgetting what the book says. "god is not willing that one should perish" (though he proved that one wrong with the Flood), so it is his problem.

And what do you mean? How should I ask god to prove his existance? How did you do it? Dying to know.


I am eager for a response, This thread will give me something to do.

[Edited on 1/8/2004 by JuanBond]


I wasnt really telling him to blame anyone, but he shouldnt blame God, because it all started with Eve. God doesnt know what we will do, if He did then we wouldnt have free-will. We choose our future. God is not the root of all evil, Satan is. Satan is what caused sin in this world. Not God. You mention the flood of Noah, but if He didnt flood the world then we would have no chance of knowing about God today. Sin is like an infection, it spreads very quickly, and most people dont even realize it. In Noahs time, everyone was sinful, but Noah was good, so God spared him, and killed the sinners because if He didnt then we would have no chance of knowing about God. How did He prove his existence to me? Sorry, no fireworks or anything. But I will give you an example of a prayer He has answered of mine. Awhile ago I was debating His existance, I was on the fence, it was bothering me a lot. I told God to send me a sign, anything, and that if He did then I would believe in Him. About a week later I recieved a letter in the mail from my cousin whom I havent spoken with in about 5 years. The letter was talking about Jesus, and my cousin quoted a lot of scripture ( I didnt even know my cousin had a relationship with Jesus, it really surprised me) I called my cousin on the phone and asked him why he sent it, he told me Jesus told him to send me a letter. God had answered my prayer, that was my sign. God bless.



posted on Jan, 9 2004 @ 08:14 PM
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Originally posted by AlecEiffel

But I will give you an example of a prayer He has answered of mine. Awhile ago I was debating His existance, I was on the fence, it was bothering me a lot. I told God to send me a sign, anything, and that if He did then I would believe in Him. About a week later I recieved a letter in the mail from my cousin whom I havent spoken with in about 5 years. The letter was talking about Jesus, and my cousin quoted a lot of scripture ( I didnt even know my cousin had a relationship with Jesus, it really surprised me) I called my cousin on the phone and asked him why he sent it, he told me Jesus told him to send me a letter. God had answered my prayer, that was my sign. God bless.


I am still waiting for God to prove his existence to me.

How did you know that the sign you thought was the sign God sent you, was the sign God had sent to you?? It could be coincidence, it is all relative.

Why does Jesus has to be the God? What about all the other Gods, there are hundreds of them.

How come people believe in so many Gods, how can one God be precieved as so many? Yes he gave us free will to choose him or not to choose him, then how come people are choosing someone else?

And how do we know he gave us the free will, he didn't tell us, we just presumed, didn't we?



posted on Jan, 9 2004 @ 09:55 PM
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I'm just going to say this once, and drop it.

The Holy Bible states that God created everything. The earth, the stars, birds, animals, good, evil, humans and angels. We can agree on this, no, alec? I don't personally belive it, but I was taught it, so I do know something about it.

We can argue untill we both are blue in the face, but you cannot blame anyone but god for evil. He created everything (If you don't belive this, you are unlike any christian I have ever known, and thats not necessairly a bad thing), including the vehicle which sin was carried and later introduced into the world.

I find it hard to imagine that Noah was the only just human in the entire world.

And surfup, perhaps we are assuming too much. But I was always taught that the angels worshiped god because they had to, and he created mankind to worship him of their own will.

Again, a ignorant concept, that can hold no water when you actually read the book. A rebellion sure sounds like someone using their mind, does it not. And that's what lucifer, an Archangel, did.

and with that, I'm gonna follow the advice in my signature and stay clear from this board for a while, (It's bad for my heart
)

Cheers



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