Why are Christians against united world?

You mean Love of God which dictates spreading the faith, even if that means millions of dead? And hatred when they see someone else is gaining control, not them.

That's probably the biggest problem, who decides that it is free and democratic for all peoples of the world. 6 1/2 Billion people...... there are sure to be at least a Billion or so that will not want it, not feel represented.....ect. What do you tell those people, it's for the greater good?

[edit on 17-6-2007 by pavil]

You need effective system to guarantee voice of people as heard and acted upon. Not with tanks but with solutions. Today this is impossible to do since government is corrupted and people are busy with nonsense.

Unless I misunderstood your post, you are missing some vital information.

Mankind rejected God(that started with Adam and Eve's choice in the garden). Since then, man has been attempting to build a world without God. And God allows a certain degree of freedom for mankind to attempt to do this. The tribulation period will be a time period, in which God gives man the most freedom He has ever allowed man to have, to try to bring about a "utopia" here on earth.

And what happens is the earth and it's inhabitants are almost completely annihilated as a result of man's actions. Jesus returns to put a stop to it.

There's nothing worse than religeos bigotory. And the new fundemntal christian movement is FULL of 'em! A lot of them actually WANT Armagedon! They are so sadly naive and credulous that they actually believe that Jesus is gonna swoop down on Judgement day, whisk 'em off to heaven, and serve them all cappacinos while they safely watch the fireworks below!!??

Scary huh? Little do they seem to realize that their as*ses are gonna be toast along with everyone else's....

Jimbo999

Tell me your not serious, ok? You don't really believe this mumbo-jumbo, do you?
Organised religeon has had over 2000 years to produce just one shred of evidence for any of this nonsense - and so far - nothing....

There's far more evidence for Bigfoot, UFO's, The Loch Ness Monster, and the Tooth Fairy I'm afraid..

Jimbo999

Could you reference some true christians who want Armegeddon?

He is actually removing the 1st group of christians before judgement day.

Ick, I hate coffee, could you make mine a sprite....................just kidding, not sure if those in heaven will be seeing what unfolds on the earth at this time and if we are there will certainly be no enjoyment in that.

I've seen an actual televised documentary on US pro-Israeli pressure groups made up of some very prominent US 'born-again' christian groups - secretly filmed - prosletysing p?> that helping the Israelis will actually speed UP the coming of the Armageddon, and that they should all donate money towards this end, along with urging their congressmen to support pro-Israeli policy in Washington. And NO - I'm not anti-Israeli, anti-Jewish or any such nonsense. This is simply what the cameras caught these guys announcing to their followers at a very respectable 'christian' event in, I believe, Washington DC.

Ok, I'll put that Sprite on order for you - make mine a Jack Daniels with Coke & Ice will ya? I'll have mine in the basement though....

Jimbo999

I would like some names. Not everyone who claims to be a christian, really is one.

The "basement" can be avoided, and I suggest you seriously consider it. It will be horrible, worse than anything that has ever happened on planet earth.

Nah, the 'basement' is where the real party will be heh!
But seriously, as for the names of the christian 'groups' - sorry, it was a year or so back, and I can't remember now - although I'm sure a good Google will unearth it all.

As far as I'm concerned - the real danger lies in these people reading the Bible literally, as it was never meant to be read that way.

Most modern, and credible biblical scholars agree that the new testament was written specifically for a jewish audience living in a specific period - Roman occupied Israel.

It was never meant to be understood in any other way. 'Armageddon' was actually a jewish fantasy relating to the utter destruction of the Roman Empire....nothing more I'm afraid.

'666 - The Sign OF The Beast' - was a code term for the Roman Emperor.... This is well established today in biblical scholarship. This is why I do not fear Armageddon, Hell, or any of that other stuff. The people who really understood it are long dead. The era that it pertains to is long dead too

Jimbo999

Look at it differently -- if many people believe and conspire to do something, they actually fulfill prophecies, which can be nothing more than 2000 years old instructions how to behave 2000 years later, thus creating it real since believers are brainwashed enough to believe all the crap you want them to believe. So cool!

I am saying this because this is implanted in many religions, not just Judeo-Christian one. For example, Al Mahdi in Islam, Maitreya in Buddhism, Krishnamurti in Hinduism and others. In short -- People are programmed to carry out prophecy, if it's real or not is irrelevant since instructions are real and actions too.

Jews hated Roman empire because they were under their rule. Christian religion then slowly infiltrated and destroyed it. It appears changes like that happen every 2000 years or so.

[edit on 18-6-2007 by sb2012]

There is only one group to ever be removed, and that is at the final trump. That is the point of the parable of the “Wedding Feast”, you best make sure that your lamps are full of oil when the time comes cause Christ is not running a shuttle service. I suggest spending less time reading “Left Behind” and more reading the true Eschatology Theologians.


Futurism, which is what dbrandt is discussing above, is very much pushed by the Zionist movement. Considering that a vast majority of the media is Jewish controlled, it is the only school of Eschatology to get any significant airtime. The reason for this is that Futurism furthers the Jewish cause of rebuilding the temple and garners Christian support for Israel. I truly believe that Futurism is the Great deception discussed in prophecy, which will lead many Christians astray in the end times. Funny thing is that most folks who follow Futurism don’t even know its called Futurism, nor do they know that it is a school which came from the Jesuit Order of the Roman Catholic Church, and is even rejected by the very church who invented it.


Actually this is partly correct. It is the code term for Nero, who was both an Emperor and the Pontifex Maximus. This persona needs to be in existence when Christ returns to properly fulfill prophecy, and still is. While no longer called the Emperor, and not Nero specifically, the second title of “Head of all Religion” or Pontifex Maximus still exists, in Rome, as the Holy Pontiff. Though it may not seem like it, the Riches and power of Rome certainly did not disappear, the Holy Roman Church is one of the oldest, richest, and most powerful organizations on this planet to this day. We many never know the true extent of their power and influence.


I think that the reason things are playing out the way they are, is that the Great Enemy of man wishes for them to appear to play out that way, so as to deceive as many Christians as possible into believing a lie. Its really simple for Satan to manipulate this when you think about it:

A) Make a false interpretation of prophecy through an organization who used to run all your old pagan churches. (Rome)
B) Make it in the best interest of other powerful organizations that this version of the prophecy appears to come true. (Zionists)
C) Make sure that your version of Prophecy becomes the best known.(Futurism)
D) Sit back and watch as many of the followers of God are mislead by a lie.

I always run into dbrandt talking Futurism in these threads and I have never gotten much of a response from him on any questions, but I do have one I would like to have answered.

If there is to be a great deception in the end times, by which even the very elect will be tempted astray, how can it be something as well known as Futurism? Even non-Christians on this site are intimately familiar with the precepts of Futurism. Isn’t it more likely that the great enemy, who has had thousands of years to plan this out, would infiltrate the Church, and supplant the true prophetic interpretation to replace it with a false one which he can easily manipulate world events to make appear to come true?

I really will have to look into exactly how involved the RCC was with the re-establishment of Israel…

(This will definitely sound snotty, but it is not at all meant that way)

That's a convenient answer, to keep from answering the question. As I said before, not everyone who claims to be a christian is.

I have never read the Left behind series.

The 5 wise virgins were really saved( the oil stands for the Holy Spirit received at salvation, which comes by faith in Christ alone, for the forgiveness of sin.)

The 5 foolish virgins had no oil, no Holy Spirit, which means they knew "about" Christ but had never truly received Him as Savior. So they were not saved, so they were not really christians. They were told to go and "buy" oil. In other words go and truly become saved through Christ alone.

Sorry I've never answered your questions before, I must have missed them.

So now, go ahead and ask them as I will not miss them this time.

Strange, normally when folks start talking about multiple raptures it comes from that series of books.


True, but you also missed the point somewhat. The point was not who was saved or not saved, it was that they only got one chance to go. There is no scriptural evidence to show a “Pre” or “Mid” trib rapture, let alone multiple raptures. There is only one time the Christians are taken away and it is at the final trumpet blast.


Maybe I am getting you mixed up with DBates, your screen names are very similar.


I already did ask them, and you missed them…

Sure there is:

Acts 15
[14] Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
[15] And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
[16] After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
[17] That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

A people are taken out(raptured) then a residue of men and women(still on earth) are seeking the Lord

Next
Rev.4
[1] After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither...........

[4] And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

Rev. 5
[8] And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
[9] And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
[10] And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.


Rev. 7
[9] After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
[10] And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
[11] And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
[12] Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
[13] And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
[14] And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


In Rev. ch. 4&5
we see a group of "24"(a specific and countable number) elders in heaven before the tribulation events take place, they are the truly saved up until that point, who are taken to heaven.

Then ch. 7 shows us another uncountable number who came out of great tribulation. This is a different group.

And in Rev. 4:1, 11:12 the words "Come up hither" are spoken indicating an event that happens at least twice.


Another one in Luke 12
[36] And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
[37] Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
[38] And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.

We are told several times in the Bible to "WATCH" for the Lord's return.

In Luke, in these verses, it indicates there will be a "2nd watch" and "3rd watch" to look for the Lord. If there is a 2nd and 3rd that means there was also a 1st watch to look for Him. There also seems to be an indication from these verses that the "1st watch" took place before the wedding took place, because the 2nd and 3rd watch servants are told to watch for their Lord after this wedding.

Notice there is no 4th watch mentioned.

sorry, double posted



[edit on 19-6-2007 by dbrandt]

Maybe if I put them at the top of the post this will work…


I’ll get to the above quotes, but several of them appear to be misquoted or quoted out of context.

Acts 15


Go back and read this verse starting at 15:1, it has nothing whatsoever to do with prophecy but is an argument within the church over Gentile Christians having to follow Jewish traditions. The men selected are those who are gentile religious leaders, and the argument is whether or not they should have to be circumcised.


Bold added by me…
You are misquoting here, the “Come up Hither” is specifically speaking to John, and to John alone, it has nothing to do with the rest of us. It is a literary shift at which point John leaves his perspective of being in his cave on earth and enters the heavenly realms to explain events as they unfold from that perspective.



I am not sure how you relate this to the rapture at all?
The elders referred to in heaven are one who are already passed on from this earth, most likely the Patriarchs. This verse has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with a rapture.


Ok, this answers its own question, they came ”out of the great tribulation” meaning they had been there during the great tribulation. These are also only Christians, the Messianic Jews are the 144K who go through the “great tribulation”. Maybe you don’t understand that A) the great tribulation has been going on since 70AD, and B) Revelations is written in a cyclic fashion of three repetitions from differing perspectives.



You should read whole chapters in the bible at once and not a verse at a time, otherwise you lose the greater context of which each verse is about:

This second “Come up Hither” is specifically in reference to the “two prophets”. To be honest many believe that the Two prophets are a reference to the Old and New testament of the bible, which folks here in “Sodom and Babylon” are currently trying to remove from society as they don’t like the accusations of their message. The reason that they start out preaching in sackcloth dates back to the times when Christians were persecuted and they had to teach the Word in secrecy.



Wow,
I guess you have never been around the military, ships, hospitals, or anywhere else they work on shifts to not understand that this verse means. See what this is saying is that God is only coming once, and you best make sure your ready when he arrives. What he is saying is that only the servants who are on the watch that is up and ready will be taken, not that he is going to take folks three times. First watch is the day shift, second watch is the evening shift, and third watch is the night shift. God has already said that he will return during the third watch, “As a thief in the night”; so the point here is that you best make sure your on guard during the correct one of the three watches, or your going to get left behind. The allusion is that he is going to return when the fewest are ready for him to return, the very elect and not the half hearted.

A tiered Governmental structure would work quite easily. We already see this functioning to an extent in the EU (granted, the EU model is flawed, but you don't get it right first time do you?). I could go into it at length for you, but this isn't a political thread...

Also it really doesn't matter what 1 or even 5 billion think, if you have a system which is best for all. After some testing and when they see how it benefits them, they will accept it.

Today people accept poverty, debt, IRS, war, preemptive war, illegal war, legal war, political lies, fundamental extremists, some even accept pedophiles in churches and nobody really revolts about it. Just day in day out, in apathy, like zombies. No wonder so many people have cancer and other degenerative diseases -- all because of mass orgy of fear and apathy.

When you are happy you are healthy. But this is something ruling elite doesn't want. They want sick and apathetic people. In debt, without hope. So they can rule them with more fear.

I am telling you, when NWO/OWG comes, in it's right form, people will revolt. Not against it, but FOR IT. Mark my words, it will happen. Don't be in fear, it makes you dumb and sick. (scientifically proven)