Hello,

I am new here. I have always been interested in physics and UFOs.
Whether they exist or not, the many "sightings" that occurred over the years have helped open new ways to physicists (as they have to believe that something crazy is possible in order to perform their research)

In short: I consider the UFO phenomena as an intellectual challenge.

I would like to as you, who are certainly more experienced than I am, a few questions
I have watched a few documentaries on youtube over the last few days. there are persistent sightings reported by pilots considered "first hand" as they are reliable sources of information.

Let's assume for a minute that we are visited by Alien beings for more advanced than we are (in terms of physics at least). They have mastered the Electromangic force, antimatter, inertia canceler, cloacking devices, wrap drives etcetc

Let's take for granted that they "attacked" military bases in the US (I am referring to the 20 nuclear missiles that went down on a day of 1970 something)

Let's push the idea and take for granted that we are not visited by one but a few races of Alien beings, explaining the various shapes of the UFOs, and that it happens that they fight each other occasionally (dogfights reported over russia for instance)


now ask yourself the question: if we were them, discovering a planet with living creatures less advanced than we would be. how would we react?

would we send manned vessels to the planet?
would we abduct people?
would we show off our strength to the governments and armies by attacking strategic outposts and installations?
would we show off our flying saucers to civilians in broad daylight?? intimidating pilots when flying at the same altitude/speed...


I dont know whether the US, the uk or any other country has access to UFO vessels and if they are reverse engineering them.

but given the facts: wouldnt it make sense that the governments or bodies in charge of dealing with the question keep all major breakthrough hidden to the public until we:
- know exactly who they are
- what they want
- how we can premune ourselves from a biological threat? (remember that a huge amount of the population in latin america was decimated by the Flu brought by the spanish conquistadores...)
- this point makes me believe that no Alien race would want to invade us or put us into slavery. if they are that advanced in terms of technology it would be way cheaper to kill a huge amount of us by just releasing a bacteria to which we wouldnt find a cure

this brings me to the conclusion that no gvt will release sensitive information or major breakthrough to the public in terms of technology also because we dont know how to beat them in case they are (or become) hostile...

and my last question is:
why the HELL do these things flight at low altitude, low speed in daylight when they can just be "invisible" running there vessels at a speed we cannot match. that makes no sense at all...

you either attack military installation and make yourself known... or you try to be invisible to all...

that do you think???

I beleive the reason you dont get any info from the governement is becuase they dont know too much about UFOs

lets say the US government has footage from an f16 of a definite craft doing manouvers etc. They think its alien.

Are they going to tell the public "ok there are spaceships invading our airspace and we cant do anything about it, we dont know their intentions and cant shoot them down they are too advanced- but dont worry folks we're on it!"

i dont think they would, a statement like that would cause mass panic, press people would be wanting more info harrassing the gvt everyday about the aliens. Better to say nothing if your not in control of the situation.

[edit on 15-6-2007 by yeti101]

i like the last bit: "dont worry folks we're on it"
hahaha

so you would agree with me: dont say anything as long as we dont know how to protect ourselves from a potential threat?



"attacking" military bases would make sense.

- intimidation: "you see guys, you cant do much about it, we are better, stronger and more beautiful than you"

or

- "Ho guys, you have foudn the matches but if you use them you're going to get burned..."


Humans would be visiting another planet: would we interfere with the inhabitants of the planet in the same way??


And I really dont get it: why would these so called "UFOs" appear in broad daylight to civilians?? (intimidation? trying to tell the people of their existence??)

jsut trying to find a logic behind that... it just doesnt add up no matter how many potential races would be visiting earth...

choubix i have to tell you i dont believe we are being visted by extra terrestrials in spaceships.

but i like to ponder "what ifs" sometimes. If they are ET i am at a loss to explain their behaviour.

The thing about presuming ETs is that the vast space of potential forms is so broad. They could have different senses. They could have different concepts of a universe. (They might not even have one.) They could be so different in so many ways that trying to figure out how they 'reason' might be entirely meaningless.

When I posit ET, I am more inclined to assume that I know little about their relation to time, space, (cause and effect in general) and thus I do not jump to the assumption that their 'actions', as they were, would follow a game-theoretic path to which our reasoning is chained. In other words, they might 'do' things that have no effect. Or they might 'be' ways that have no purpose we can discern.

As a result, I have always thought that one of the WEAKEST arguments against the ET hypothesis is that UFO behaviors don't make sense.

But that's just me. Some people think ET and immediately assume bi-symmetric arm-and-leg-and-head creatures. The question I always ask myself is, unless you have met them or put stock in certain stories, why start with that assumption?

So let us assume anthroids for a moment. Assume they have 'concepts', 'reason', 'intent' , 'memory', 'self', 'time', 'senses' and a whole host of other elements that we are chained to believe we have. In that very particular case, a HUMAN reason for 'showing off' would be that they are tired and busy and find our reactions irrelevant. Or maybe they are scheduled to slowly ramp up revelations over the next 200 years, as espoused by the Disclosure Handbook for Backwards Truly Screwed-Up Worlds (tm.) But I am not inclined to put much stock in these particular guesses for the aforementioned reasons.

So if you want to go down the anthro way of thinking, perhaps you should investigate some of the threads on ATS where people claim to be in contact with bipedal bug heads. (I use that term endearingly ) Maybe they could give you some clues to the supposed behavior that might describe what you seek.

Now as an aside, here's a possibility we do not fantasize about:

What if ET has been, over the course of hundreds of thousands of years, interacting with us through space-time like a kid poking an insect? Maybe we don't make sense to them. Maybe after hundreds of thousands of years they have devised that projecting bug-head forms into our reality and then saying deep things stirs reactions. But here's the kicker. Using hundreds of thousands of years of sampling, they might be able to create deep stories and thoughts to make us react WITHOUT EVEN UNDERSTANDING WHAT THEY ARE SAYING. That is a nightmare scenario.

Kind of like when you poke an ant with a stick. The ant might be thinking "You have very big antennae. Why did you just ask me to stick my thorax into a rock and excrete fungal growth nutrients into it?" We are just poking it with a stick in a particular way that gets a big reaction from the ant. We have no idea that we are speaking to it in an ant antennae touch language.

For the first few years of poking ants, we might just make them run around and panic. But maybe after a lifetime of studying them with a stick we could get them to do some funny dances. Those poor ants!

Anyway, I'm just trying to point out that there are so many myriad possibilities. Some are very appealing to the human spirit. Others are not. We need to consider them all while speculating, but at the end of the day we are likely to get something entirely unexpected.

[edit on 15-6-2007 by Ectoterrestrial]

[edit on 15-6-2007 by Ectoterrestrial]

Personally, I think that trying to extrapolate what an alien might do based on our own human emotions and motivations is of limited value. It represents only a tiny fraction of what is possible, an area which includes all the things we don't know and possibly may not even be capable of understanding. I like to use the relatively simple example of trying to imagine what something might look like to us if it's moving what we would consider to be "backward" in time. How can I wrap my mind around something like that? An object briefly intersecting with my awareness in my current spacetime. How would it interact with me? How would I perceive it?

And the thing is, once you get past the Greys and the Space Brothers, those are the kinds of things you start to run into with real sightings. A continuing lack of good evidence despite decades of good sightings. Strange distortions of perceptions and time. Dream invasions. Abductions in broad daylight. Odd psychic effects. Pink beams from the sky that alter awareness (as experienced by St. Paul and Philip K. Dick, for instance). Just plain weirdness.

To me, that is where the true intellectual challenge arises.