Ireland, Civil War at home, Revolution Abound

Just a minor point for this thread.

Everyone who says that the IRA is terrorists because they killed Women and Children than you should call the British, who killed Thousands of Women and Children, terrorists as well.

Also, what "if the shoe was on the other foot" would you feel the same way????

Didnt think so.

You must look at the WHOLE history and not just a little "snippet" when you start calling an orginazation terrorists.

So where exactly did the British Army in Northern Ireland kill thousands ???

Terrorising civilian populations is terrorism.

Originally posted by hoochymama
What they should do is let all the Irish and all the Brits go stand face to face in a field large enough to hold everyone and go at it FIST TO FIST and see who is standing last.

I FOR ONE KNOWS WHO WOULD WIN THAT WAR!!!

Oh my god, you are SO SCARY

Seriously, one is quaking in one's boots.

When you're done beating your chest and proving your ancestral masculinity, why don't you get off your arse and come and have a pop?

Or shall we be waiting while you cultivate a pair?

reply to post by The_Coo


Over the last few hundred years, the British DID kill thousands - whether that's by use of the black&tans, or by the starvation methods of the potato famine.
These are cold hard facts.

Terran Blue - Well said, but did you really get your point across?? Don't take it personal, I think if you took what I said in its contextual meaning, I think you would see that the British don't really play fair. The only true way to play fair is to put down the big bad guns and see who can really fight. Its the same with the Americans.....which has the good all saying "He who dies with the most toys wins". I think they also use this in Military combat as well.

I love boxing anyway.

Just to make sure, how many World Boxing Champs has Britain had????? How many Irish have been World Boxing Champs???? Oh, I don't think you can count Frank Bruno.

I will come back with the answer later as I really don't know but I could venture a good guess......

Originally posted by blissfullignorance
I honestly had no idea where to post something like this, or if it even belongs here.. so i apologize to anyone whos time I waste. anyway...

The IRA has been fighting, in my opinion, the good fight for hundreds of years. Since easter rising, things have supposedly gotten bad, then better... but now my relatives in Dublin are telling me about something they've heard underground. That there is a planned uprising of the RIRA, or the real ira as they call themselves. Supposedly, they are going to try to group up, militarize, and attack Northern Ireland. They have no problem with the protestants, and they wouldn't be doing this if it werent for the damned brits. I'm sorry, I hope I havent offended any of you. any opinions though on what this would mean?

Second now, does anyone know of that Thomas Jefferson quote? "Every few hundred years or so, if a government is left in power for too long, it will become unruly. Every generation needs a revolution to straighten out a corrupt system of government.." or something to that effect. Does anyone else think it may be time? It may be time to stop the government and their corruption, their lies, and their slander. I'm not saying I wish to hurt the president at all, i think it would be a terrible thing to do and would solve nothing but anger the entire nation. But is it time for a revolt, and what kind? Armed? Peaceful? What can we do.. Could we learn from our Irish brothers, fighting for their country? Albeit, it is a different scenario, we're not being controlled by a foreign nation, but we are being controlled by our own nation. Does anyone have any opinions on this matter? Or on a potential race war, war with Mexico or Canada, or anything of that matter? Trust me, I'm not some bigot or gun happy moron. I'm simply wondering about the future of our great nation, and what we must do, as American's, to protect and get back our civil liberties that have been stolen from us so plain, right from underneath our noses. Any response is greatly appreciated. Thanks to all.

The IRA hijacked a civil rights campaign (which affected poor Protestants as well) to indulge in a poorly supported sectarian war based on the border issue.

They are marxist scum who killed babies, women and children with no justification

Well, I'm certainly glad to see a Northern Ireland thread that hasn't somehow dissolved into a "yeah but their side also killed lots of people" moral race to the bottom.

I lived in London during the early 90s, so I remember their mainland campaign fairly well. I've also read enough history to know that MI5, the RUC and Special Branch had a nasty little habit of letting Loyalist terrorists out with weapons seized off of Republican ones, among other things. The traditional forces of law and order in NI were so corrupt there was no choice but to send the Army in, or else cut it loose entirely. And armies are highly trained at police work, of course...

Let's put this another way: there is no excuse for killing innocent people. None. You kill an innocent person, you should be sent to jail for a damn long time, regadless of what so-called cause you profess to believe in. End of story. The IRA are not better than the Loyalists who are no better than the trigger happy Brit soliders.

Originally posted by Kaliayev
Well, I'm certainly glad to see a Northern Ireland thread that hasn't somehow dissolved into a "yeah but their side also killed lots of people" moral race to the bottom.

I lived in London during the early 90s, so I remember their mainland campaign fairly well. I've also read enough history to know that MI5, the RUC and Special Branch had a nasty little habit of letting Loyalist terrorists out with weapons seized off of Republican ones, among other things. The traditional forces of law and order in NI were so corrupt there was no choice but to send the Army in, or else cut it loose entirely. And armies are highly trained at police work, of course...

Let's put this another way: there is no excuse for killing innocent people. None. You kill an innocent person, you should be sent to jail for a damn long time, regadless of what so-called cause you profess to believe in. End of story. The IRA are not better than the Loyalists who are no better than the trigger happy Brit soliders.

Bit of revisionism there the army were sent in, NOT because of corruption, but because the police simply could not cope with the ever increasing security situation, this was the biggest civil conflict in western europe since WW2 and a poorly equipped RUC was no match for 2 communities hell bent on murdering each other, with the added spice of increasing use of arms.

One thing you should NEVER do is make equivalence between loyalist and republican terrorists and the forces of the state- YES bad things were done by some people within the security forces, but that does not pave the way for extreme relativism which is just moral cowardice- follow that line and there is no distinction between the nazis and the allies

Why do all American and British Policies always seem to be right when all other countries policies seem to be wrong??? Why doesn't American and British high ranking Generals in charge of atrocities against ordinary citizens NEVER have to go the Hague for trial??? Why is it that any time ANYONE questions actions of a HUGE MILITARY POWER such as Britian or the US about there actions against Citizens of another country to gain territory, resources, or more power have to DEFEND THE ACTIONS OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE BEING ATTACKED???

To me, this is simple, if anyone and I mean ANYONE came to the US and tried to take if over and the citizens started terrorist type activities to protect there lives, resources, land, freedoms, etc. these CITIZENS WOULD BE CONSIDERED HEROES.....but, as soon as another countries citizens try and do the same thing we turn our backs on them.....

I believe there are always two sides to every story AND I do believe ONE SIDE IS RIGHT AND ONE SIDE IS WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i could be wrong here but
was it not the catholics you asked for the army to be brought into northern ireland for protection...

like i say, i could be wrong and i am sorry if i am.

let the peace continue for a long time

Originally posted by chickenfeet
i could be wrong here but
was it not the catholics you asked for the army to be brought into northern ireland for protection...

like i say, i could be wrong and i am sorry if i am.

let the peace continue for a long time

wasn't so much asked, but more initially welcomed them- at the time, particularly in Belfast, protestants were in about a 2 to 1 majority and so were getting the upper hand of the civil conflict.

reply to post by hoochymama


That is a vague generalisation.
Could you please be more specific in your allegations against Britain, it's policies in Northern Ireland, it is a thread about Ireland after all, and the actions of it's forces and Generals.

reply to post by Knights


are u mad? of course the british invaded ireland or have u been asleep up until now? do sum research on history, and i dont mean from a british perspective, and u will see that the british murdered our language, our culture, made us out to stupid ignorant boggers. if a child was found to be speaking Gaelic in school they were punished, and so the language was eradicated. its very sad. and i am not anti british, my boyf is english as are some of my relatives. but its a well known fact that the british are kept ignorant of their ancestors deeds..
u should watch the film micheal collins. less then 100 year ago british police opened fire on innocent people at a sports match. yes they were retaliating against an attack on themselves by the IRA or sumtin, but does that excuse killing innocent people? if the british never invaded ireland and seperated us eventually, the IRA would not exist. i support the cause of the ira, i believe ireland should ahve been left whole and the the english have NO RIGHT to dictate to any other country how to live their lives or how to speak. but i dont support the IRA's methods, there are other ways to deal with opression than violence. unfortunatly, its usually violence that gets used. of course, the brits were prone to violence against the irish too.
cruel uncensored and pretty much legal violence. i wish nations could accept that they have behaved badly in the past and teach their children the true history. for example, iv heard recently that ireland refused entry to jewish refugees in ww2 and actually supported the nazis just to piss of the brits, and that makes me ashamed. but i dont deny it, it happened. and the english people need ot know exactly what the cost of their great empire was.

There's no going back from shared government.

OP, you need to buy a clue.

Brit apologists, you should question whether permanently applying a permanent model of reality has anything to do with reality.

The rule of the gun is over in N.I. and anyone who passes judgement will have judgement passed.

Originally posted by hoochymama
Just a minor point for this thread.

Everyone who says that the IRA is terrorists because they killed Women and Children than you should call the British, who killed Thousands of Women and Children, terrorists as well.

Also, what "if the shoe was on the other foot" would you feel the same way????

Didnt think so.

You must look at the WHOLE history and not just a little "snippet" when you start calling an orginazation terrorists.

idiotic reasoning, like saying executing a person who killed a baby makes you as bad as them

Originally posted by hoochymama
Terran Blue - Well said, but did you really get your point across?? Don't take it personal, I think if you took what I said in its contextual meaning, I think you would see that the British don't really play fair. The only true way to play fair is to put down the big bad guns and see who can really fight. Its the same with the Americans.....which has the good all saying "He who dies with the most toys wins". I think they also use this in Military combat as well.

I love boxing anyway.

Just to make sure, how many World Boxing Champs has Britain had????? How many Irish have been World Boxing Champs???? Oh, I don't think you can count Frank Bruno.

I will come back with the answer later as I really don't know but I could venture a good guess......

retarded again- back in the late 60s we were looking a "fair fight"- british protestants against catholic republicans and it wasnt looking too good for the republicans......... the British army was called in to protect the catcholic and republican areas.

As for your boxing question, you are making me cringe, seriously, a quick google will show you a plethora of current and ex British champs- jeesh if I as a loyalist and British person from NI has you as my enemy, I have nothing to fear

Originally posted by undermind
There's no going back from shared government.

OP, you need to buy a clue.

Brit apologists, you should question whether permanently applying a permanent model of reality has anything to do with reality.

The rule of the gun is over in N.I. and anyone who passes judgement will have judgement passed.

Check yourself, I am a "brit" and I apologise for not one bit of it

Edited: Bah, I can't bothered. Have a nice day.

[edit on 8-12-2008 by rizla]

Same old same old bullsh*t - Im not one to question the mindset of those living in sectarian areas in Northern Ireland but could yez not get another hobby or something.. instead of all this hatred through religion and allegiance bullsh*t.

The IRA had a cause and a reason to fight all the way from the late 1800's up to the 1999 agreements - anyone who disagree's with this point should look up the history.

The RIRA are scum and thugs, they deserve nothing more than to be treated like scum and thugs. There are not too many people who would support them.

I have read this whole thread and as an Englsih man i find it very distubing to see the words, IRA and fighting a good fight put in the same sentence. Its seems that the OPer has decided that it was "good" of the IRA to bomb the Grand Hotel in Brighton in an atempt to kill the whole Government.

news.bbc.co.uk...

en.wikipedia.org...

Shame on you.

I can saftly say that EVERY person in the UK has Irish Blood in them and visa versa.
Somebody mentioned the "potatoe famine". Very said of course and a scare on British history. BUT, the Irish land owners was just as guilty as the British Government. The British Governments wholeharted beleaf in the Free Market lead to many deaths, it did not learn its lesson in India.

www.historyplace.com... September 1845

If anybody wants to learn about British history then i recomend "Simon Schama a history of Britian." He gives an unbiased view.

I digress from the main point of the thread. No the RIRA are never going to invade Northen Ireland. BECAUSE THERE IS PEACE.

One last thing, i read that we were wrong to take back the Falklands.
en.wikipedia.org...

They were taken over. They wanted to be liberated. We liberated them as they are British citizens and i have always found it funny that America did nothing.

rant over, doubt it makes much sence, but all i can say is thank god we have peace in Ireland and the UK.