Ireland, Civil War at home, Revolution Abound

Originally posted by Are We Alone
You call blowing up woman and children and killing thousands of innocent people A GOOD FIGHT. Thats SICK talk infinite.

read my post. it wasn't me...

quoting what someone else said.

Please learn the ability to read, it can be quite helpful


[edit on 16-6-2007 by infinite]

Oh my i made a mistake that must mean i cant read.

Don't be so tight infinite people do make mistakes in life, and just because i did doesnt mean i can't read.

the big problem we have in northern ireland is the idiots who cannot accept PEACE AND DO NOT WANT PEACE.
i am prodestant in name only and my friends are from both sides of the fence. we all want peace for us and our families and most of us are happy with what is going on today, everybody sitting round a table talking to each other like human beings, not shooting and blowing up people.

unfortunately we have the idiots from both sides of the border who do not want the "good fight" to stop and will try to keep it going by telling their kids who too like and who too hate, HOW SAD
all of the catholics that i know would not move down south because they have a better living in the north.
to all of the people who want to keep "the good fight" going, i suggest you grab your woman by the hair and drag yourselfs back into your caves with your clubs and stay there
have a peaceful day

Originally posted by BlissfullIgnorance

Originally posted by tonyc
blissfullignorance.

i must say i found this post very offensive.
After years off armed conflict, we are now in the situtation where all sides have reached aggreement.

This is not the time, for someone who has an obvious complete lack of Knowledge on the history of this conflict. I suggest you spend your time concentrating on the abuse of civil liberties, in your own country.

To help deny ignorance; currently, former enemies are now working together. This was unthinkable 15 years ago. the vast majority of the population of The British Isles( yes that includes the whole of Ireland) want this aggreement to suceed, all sides have had great difficutly getting to a peaceful solution.

As for revolution in America, well thats up to Americans.

btw we have one thing in common, I also was born "outside of County Cork".

i apologize very much. i now realize that, while i do think i understand the issue, i didnt have all the facts at the time. it was never my attempt to insult your offend you or anyone for that matter. simply trying to get a good debate going.


ps. good to see another eire brother here

Blissfullignorance, thank you for reading my post, I think it is very magnanimous of you to apologize.

May i in a spirit of friendship and understanding reply to some of your points.

"i now realize that, while i do think i understand the issue, i didnt have all the facts at the time"

I am sorry but i don`t think you do understand. The complexities of British/Irish History/Conflict(for want of a better term) are enormous, and years of serious study would be needed to understand, if indeed it is "understandable". As for "facts", the fact of the matter is, ALL sides have reached a peaceful agreement.

"ps. good to see another eire brother here"

Again I`m sorry you have misunderstood, I was born "OUTSIDE of County Cork" in a place called Bootle, Liverpool, England. my ancestors on my Fathers side are Irish Catholics, my ancestors on my Mothers side are Irish Protestants. I tend to look at things from all sides.


"just like to say.. wow. im surprised my thread got this much attention"

Can i ask you to ponder this proverb.
"Bygone battles, like old sins, cast long shadows"

Peace Tonyc


[edit on 16-6-2007 by tonyc]

[edit on 16-6-2007 by tonyc]

The Real IRA are a bunch of druggy scumbags who murdered 29 innocent people in Omagh including 2 unborn twins , we have a Government here now in Northern Ireland consisting of all sides of the community.

Why dont you take your sectarian views and post them on a republican terrorist site , those Brits who you want to leave consist of 1 MILLION Protestant citizens who make up the majority of Northern Irelands population,theres only a very small number of soldiers based in Northern Ireland mainly because the violence is over from the Provional IRA and loyalist groupings.

And as for the Real IRA restarting a murder campaign in Northern Ireland I dont think this can happen without support from the Catholic community and they just dont have it , they never had it in the late 90s and they definatley dont have any support now thats why they havent carried out any terror attacks in the last few years

People in Northern Ireland have chosen the path they want to take , its the path of peace and partnership within in the UK , although some people seem to like to live in the past and would want violence back on the streets againn as long as it didnt effect them or their familes.The Real IRA are finished as far as political violence is concerned , they are only interested in making money from crime and drugs now.The Provisional IRA destroyed their own guns and bombs as a sign that their bloody terror campaign was over for good.

[edit on 16-6-2007 by The_Coo]

[edit on 16-6-2007 by The_Coo]

Me Father he was Orange and me Mother she was Green,

Not really as my dad used to say I'm belly to belly Belfast.
Or I'm so Irish it's Titanic
My dad used to be in the TA's in the late 50 and early 60's and did not want to be involved in what would become the troubles, so he brought the family to Canada and we have been here ever since. So my view on this subject is more of an outsider, At one time it was over religion but now I see it as protection money and corruption. Very simplistic view I know. I just wish we could all get along maybe one day.

Just keep the Black & Tans out.

[edit on 16/6/2007 by Sauron]

I don't presume to understand the real reasons for such conflicts, although....

This is merely yet another example of how religon is used to influence the opinion of the population, and direct conflict.

The Cronulla(sp.) riots in Sydney began as a drug turf battle, yet the media portrayed it as a fight between Muslims and 'Aussies'. Even on ATS, everyone thought it was about Muslims. The problem was that people of middle eastern and asian descent were trying to monopolise the drug trade, which the 'aussies' didn't like because of the enourmous amounts of money involved. You will not see this in articles, its just something that I heard and know to be true. Don't bother asking me for links. You can take it or leave it. There were other potentially enourmous situations that stemmed from this initial event which were luckily averted by police. By this stage though the racial card had been forced quite hard and people had absolutely no idea what it was all about.

I know there are stronger underlying issues but I strongly believe that nationality and religion are used as a means to influence situations on a large scale. Whether by government, or minority group seeking to cause 'beneficial' disruption.

I just think its soooooooo stupid how everything is linked to religion. Religion should be something you do in the privacy of your own home and not be used as an identifier.

The IRA, or any other form of terrorist group, should never have existed after 1921, but unfortunately they turned into drug lords.

My question would be, why doesn't the UK let Ireland out of the UK??? Why is Britain still there??? If the reason is to "Protect" its citizens than Mexico's army and influence should still be in California to protect its "citizens" and "influence".

I believe the UK (England) is keeping a strangle hold on Northern Ireland because its the only "Land Grab" they can still claim as there Empire. The fighting has been going on for a long time and reason always changes. In my life time it was "Catholics" vs "Protestants". In lifetimes long ago it was for survival. The British Empire was a domineering, oppressive, land grabbing, terrorist Empire just like all Empires before it and after it.

I am a Irish-American and the history in America for my ancestors as far as discrimination and hatred from English ancestry relates to the struggles in Northern Ireland. Someone in this thread mentioned the MONEY is in the North. Does that mean resources?? Does that mean drugs??? Please expand on that as I think it could be a great point and help some people to dig deep for the real reason.

Most of an Empires reasons for holding on to a Nation is because of Money, case in point the US invasion of Iraq and the continuing occupation of Afghanistan (Opium production is up some 90% since we kicked out the Taliban).

This thread is interesting as you can see the battle lines drawn between "British" subjects or loyalists and "Irish" who believe in a separate and and Ireland who can stand on her own. I like the latter which would finally take the reins off a people who are very passionate and have actual emotion's which I believe help a nation stand on its own.

I have to say, I love Irish Americans..

Blaming the British for everything, even though many Irish Americans gave money and arms to the IRA during the troubles and still to this day to the RIRA.

Lets not forget the Irish American politicians who refused to condemn the terrorist campaign and shook hands with Gerry Adams when he was still apart of the IRA.

Wanna know why there is now peace in Ireland? because Irish Americans stopped giving money to terrorists.

Sorry if I sound harsh, but many people seem to blame everything on "imperial britain" and ignore the crimes of the terrorists. It makes my blood boil since I've had members of my own family killed

(this is all coming from a proud Irishmen)

[edit on 16-6-2007 by infinite]

Originally posted by blissfullignorance

my relatives in Dublin are telling me about something they've heard underground. That there is a planned uprising of the RIRA, and attack Northern Ireland.

I dont think this will ever happen, the last I heard the RIRA were getting ready to hand over thier weapons. I live in Belfast and if something like this was going to happen people would be talking about it.

you've got to wonder don't ya, seriously, RIRA invading the north, who comes up with this stuff?? i just want to add my voice to all the other british and irish voices on here that have pointed out that a)this thread is chock full of ignorance and b)its intent is really, really insulting, especially the good fight bit.

I'm from Ireland. Dublin in fact and i am shocked that people are saying the OP should'nt of said that he is proud they are fighting the good fight. Of course they are Fighting the good Fight. I and every other Irish person wants there 6 Countys back. The british for 700 years terrorised our country and in 1916 The Easter Rising took place where we fought back and won 26 countys back and to this day the british government refuses to give back the 6 countys. For that i hate the British gov. As for omagh that was done by a group that defected from the Real I.R.A . The real I.R.A will not just randomly blow up a block of flats. They will ring and warn people and then press a button. They are not terrorists they are freedom fighters and i hope they take the fight to the north and win back what is ours. A person commented saying that the OP condoned the killing of innocent people. Well to you who knows so little, research what you can on the history of MY country and see how WE the Irish citizens and rightfull owners of this land where treated by a government much like the administration in the U.S.A . I do not care for a second about any protestant that is killed in the North of Ireland. They to me are still invaders and should not be there ( unless that person is in the UK then that would be different ). They have an organisation called the Orange Order in the North. These people that are in this "Organisation" want to march and parade through the areas where the british soldiers killed, mamed and raped people and to rub our noses in it. Is that right? Should the terrorists that did 9/11 be allowed walk through the streets of New York parading and celebrating MURDER? No. So bring on the uprising because if they wont give us back what is ours we will take it back even if it takes a decade or more.

And if you ban me for anything i said above fine, i'll still fight the fight and support the real Irish Republican Army,

Tiocfaidh Ar La - Our Day Will Come.

[edit on 16-6-2007 by aeionu]

Originally posted by infinite
I have to say, I love Irish Americans..

Blaming the British for everything, even though many Irish Americans gave money and arms to the IRA during the troubles and still to this day to the RIRA.

Lets not forget the Irish American politicians who refused to condemn the terrorist campaign and shook hands with Gerry Adams when he was still apart of the IRA.

Wanna know why there is now peace in Ireland? because Irish Americans stopped giving money to terrorists.

Sorry if I sound harsh, but many people seem to blame everything on "imperial britain" and ignore the crimes of the terrorists. It makes my blood boil since I've had members of my own family killed

(this is all coming from a proud Irishmen)

[edit on 16-6-2007 by infinite]

I am sorry but they are not terrorists but they are Freedom Fighters.

Please read this about just ONE of the many things the British did. The Black an Tans which where like the SS only worse. Ruthless evil men sent to kill innocent Irish citizens.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by DarkSide
The IRA, or any other form of terrorist group, should never have existed after 1921, but unfortunately they turned into drug lords.

The Real I.R.A do not deal in drugs or anything of the sort. The splinter groups do and are despised by the Real I.R.A . Trust me i know, anybody in ireland will tell you that if your a drug dealer your greatest fear is a Real I.R.A man. Thank YOU for your blind ignorance.

Originally posted by seenitall
I don't presume to understand the real reasons for such conflicts, although....

This is merely yet another example of how religon is used to influence the opinion of the population, and direct conflict.

The Cronulla(sp.) riots in Sydney began as a drug turf battle, yet the media portrayed it as a fight between Muslims and 'Aussies'. Even on ATS, everyone thought it was about Muslims. The problem was that people of middle eastern and asian descent were trying to monopolise the drug trade, which the 'aussies' didn't like because of the enourmous amounts of money involved. You will not see this in articles, its just something that I heard and know to be true. Don't bother asking me for links. You can take it or leave it. There were other potentially enourmous situations that stemmed from this initial event which were luckily averted by police. By this stage though the racial card had been forced quite hard and people had absolutely no idea what it was all about.

I know there are stronger underlying issues but I strongly believe that nationality and religion are used as a means to influence situations on a large scale. Whether by government, or minority group seeking to cause 'beneficial' disruption.

I just think its soooooooo stupid how everything is linked to religion. Religion should be something you do in the privacy of your own home and not be used as an identifier.

No this is not a Fight with religeons its about land. The only way in which religeon comes into it is when the British first invaded Ireland they tried to convert the Irish people the rightfull owners of the land into Protestants and if they did not convert they where killed. This is not the case anymore and the only reason most of the world thinks it is a war on relegeon is because of Media. The war now is for LAND. Just like the Falkland islands the british are ignorant to there own evil.

I don't know much about the conflict between Northern Ireland and the IRA, but this thread has been helpful in learning more about it. About the quote you wondered about in the 1st post, I wonder if this is it:

--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

The Declaration of Independence

Originally posted by aeionu
The Real I.R.A do not deal in drugs or anything of the sort. The splinter groups do and are despised by the Real I.R.A . Trust me i know, anybody in ireland will tell you that if your a drug dealer your greatest fear is a Real I.R.A man. Thank YOU for your blind ignorance.

There's no "real" or "false" IRA, they're all terrorists, and have nothing to do with the Republic. Thinking of starting killing innocent people to "free" NI in this day and age is just ridiculous, I mean Eire is part of the EU, and so is the UK.

The I.R.A have killed THOUSANDS of Innocent people THOUSANDS, among those THOUSANDS are woman children. Call them Freedom Fightes all you want, but i can assure you, the people on this planet see them as TERRORISTS first other than I.R.A supporters. Just take another look at the video on this thread the Manchester one THATS TERRORISTS FOR YOU !!!

Originally posted by Knights
What of the loyalist British citizens who live in Northern Ireland? Who actually want Britain to stay in control? The 'damned' Brits aren't their causing the trouble- instead protecting it's citizens from people like the IRA.

Over here the term loyalist has a different meaning, not all of the decent Unionist/ Prodestant people are "loyalists". In N.I when people hear the term "loyalist" most of think of drug dealing, racketeers. While most of the British army here were protecting the citizens, the Irish part of the population lived in fear of the loyalist death squads, who were helped by a minority of members of the army and, the now defunct, RUC. As time passes we are now finding out that some high ranking members of the IRA were also British agents. The mind boggles.