Bush's plan for Illegals

ok..I fully understand why people want to keep the flow of people coming in here to a minimum..but honestly..when t comes down to it..I do not see any real reason to take such drastic action against people who just want to work and help there families....
I think it would be a risk to let them in and have a somewhat legal status..But i think the risk is well worth it...In a day when we find it ok to bomb the crap out of countries and then proceed to send them insane amounts of money[some said iraqi oil will pay for it...iraqi oil money may help rebuild iraq...but i have not seen anything about iraqi oil money repaying the american tax payers back the 84 billion gift they recieved from us]I see no reason not to let these people work and contribute to america.....People keep saying things that might change ones mind towards closing the borders but your points are all baseless it seems....People keep saying they are stealing our jobs...[you really think they are stealing jobs? ] you think they are stealing tax dollars?[compared to currupt corporations,tax shelters for rich and 84 billion to iraq,all the money stolen from americans[actually stolen,mexicans arnt stealing ,they earn their paychecks] I would say illegal emegrants are the least of your problems as far as tax money goes] but as i said.....I would love to see any credible links that claim that illegal emegrants are draining our economy...any at all

[Edited on 8-1-2004 by McGotti]

We can't blame ourselves for this problem. The problem isn't americans wanting cheaper goods. My goodness, Wally World isn't that cheap. The major problem is that our government is in the pocket of big business--and they are pushing for globalization.

As one can see from Seekerof's links--every time we relax the controls or offer amnesty the problem explodes. Then, ten years later we're trying to fix it again by allowing amnesty and relaxing controls. Congress doesn't want to raise wages or enforce the illegal laws because companies want cheap labor. They'll do anything to accomplish this including looking the other way and employing illegals. Why aren't their more raids and investigations into employing illegal labor? Instead, we make excuses...like americans won't do those jobs...americans want to make a livable wage to raise their families...we live in a single family structures--not in extended family structures so we can't earn low wages and make it.

Unskilled wages should be on the rise--not on the decline especially because of the exporting of low wage and mid-level jobs to places like mexico, india, and south america. This should make the demand for quality unskilled workers even higher in this country, but if you export the jobs and then import cheaper labor the wages will stay stagnant.

If we allow worker visa's to illegals we will depress the wages of unskilled american workers because illegals will work for an unlivable wage. Living wage is something we should be fighting for not making impossible. Places like Wally World will never raise their wages if they can just import low wage earners.

Helps the Economy huh?

AZ Court Orders Unlimited
Medical Care For Illegals
By Jon Dougherty
� 2003 WorldNetDaily.com
8-28-03

The Arizona Supreme Court has rejected a plea by the state's Medicaid provider to limit medical coverage for illegal immigrants to emergency room and acute care.

The Arizona Health Care Cost Containment System, or AHCCCS, manager of the state's Medicaid program, is obligated to provide care to illegals beyond emergency room and other acute care wards, justices ruled unanimously Thursday.

According to Capitol Media Services and the Arizona Daily Star, AHCCCS - which currently pays $75 million to $80 million a year in emergency care for illegals - had refused to reimburse hospitals for services it said were not covered. About one-third of that amount is covered by state taxpayers; the federal government covers the rest.

Critics of providing unlimited medical care to illegals argue many of them use emergency departments as clinics, a practice that not only can delay care for others but, since E.R. care is more expensive, can also raise the overall costs of operating a hospital. This is especially true in areas suffering from high immigration.

As WorldNetDaily reported, the cost of providing medical care to illegals in and around Los Angeles is rising so fast that many hospitals have cut services or closed emergency departments.

According to Project USA, an immigration reform group, the problem is "epidemic" throughout California. The group adds the problem is compounded because fewer taxes are being paid to support care for illegals.

"Since employers usually pay illegal aliens 'off the books,' neither the employer nor the workers pay payroll taxes," the group says.

Regarding health care, former immigration Lawyer Matt Hayes said "it is amazing that America is willing to provide free medical treatment to people who are not citizens - and even illegal aliens - while the home countries of most all of those people will not do so."


Sen. Jon Kyl, R-Ariz., says the cost to the entire nation is in the billions.

"According to one estimate, the cost of providing federally-mandated health care to illegal immigrants is between $1.5 billion and $2
billion annually," he said in a Jan. 11, 2002 statement.

www.rense.com...

There is more to this article, I just snipped out parts.

NO, Jeez what was I thinking?
Man I mustuv drank too much moonshine at that Klan meeting last night.
They definatly benifit us.
And for those to stupid to see the humor, it was a joke.

As for the stealing the tv thing, you took it out of context and made it sound the way you wanted.
If they are "illigal aliens" are they not in this country "illegaly"? = "Illegal entry".
The jobs here are considered "American Jobs", there for when one takes a job from an American ITS STEALING!
Regardless if it's a TV or a Job. Regardless what thet job may be its still a job that some american somewhere could have. And dont give me that "no American will do job" shyte, someone will do it.
They steal jobs from those already here.
Ones that were born here and ones that immigrated here.
Lets look at the Education system and the strain illegal have on it. Class over crowding, language recources needed, not to mention more tax payer dollars.
And yes, some of them do steal, rape, murder, ect...
Not all but some.
So we have a prision issue.
I could be wrong but I heard that it cost somewhere around $22,000 a year to keep you in prision.
here are the stats:

CRIMINAL ALIEN COSTS
Claims by state and local authorities requesting compensation from the federal government in FY'99 for incarceration expenses of illegal aliens amounted to about $1.5 billion for 25.4 million days (the equivalent of 69,500 years) of detention. Under the federal State Criminal Alien Assistance Program (SCAAP), the states received only 39 percent of their expenses ($572,734,294). This left the states and local jurisdictions with uncompensated outlays of nearly $911 million. The SCAAP program began in 1994 and compensates the states and local jurisdictions only for incarceration of "undocumented," i.e. illegal, aliens who are serving time for a felony conviction or at least two misdemeanors.

In FY'00 state and local jurisdictions received $569 million in SCAAP payments. SCAAP awards in FY'01 and FY'02, respectively, were $535 million and $543 million. Although the Department of Justice has ceased releasing data on the expense claims of the local jurisdictions, the uncovered costs of incarceration of illegal aliens have no doubt increased significantly from the more than $900 million shortfall in FY'99.

www.fairus.org...
You said you live in the south, that explains nothing.
Just because you know a few mexicans does not mean you how they all are.
You keep bringing up Iraq but that is not what this thread is about. We are also spending money on a space program, should we scrap it to help the "poor mexicans"?
Do you volenteer for any Mexican benifit? Make any Charitible donations? Do you employ one or let one that you dont know, stay with you?

You are twisting this in to something it's not.
You are turning this in to selfishness and racisim.
Thats not the case at all. We have a country, we want to prosper just like any other. I am not against immigration, im for limiting it, and most of all Enforcing it.
How does that make me a racist?

Originally posted by worldwatcher
What do you people think of Bush's new plan to let illegal immigrants get legal status after working here for 3 years?

I don't like this plan, I think it will keep the minimum wage down and keep unemployment rates high.

The whole thing just don't seem right.

I have nothing against legal immigrants. I think that's great. I'm all for it. Having said that, I think Bush's plan to give these ILLEGALS amnesty is treasonous! What are these people thinking? Oh yeah, I forgot! They're in the process of selling our nation down the river. No one can crush us from without, so how do they (NWO) do it? FROM WITHIN.

Folks, it's long past time to wake up!

The United States of America is on the verge of economic catastrophe. This illegal alien problem is only throwing fuel on the fire. More crime, more illiteracy, higher insurance rates, killing the labor force.. etc etc. If the INS was enforce current laws on the books, we wouldn't be having this problem.

What can be done? Well, let's see...

1. Illegal goes to the hospital for treatment.. treat him and let the authorities come pick him up. Pick his familia up, too.

2. Illegal gets pulled over or in a wreck.. Same thing.

3. Illegal gets arrested.. same thing

4. Instead of closing bases, we should beef the army back up, bring the troops home from Germany and South Korea.. Station them along OUR BORDERS! I guarantee there wouldn't be all this sneaking over the border shyte with troops patrolling with 50 cal. machine guns.

5. SEND THEM BACK!

It is national insanity to even propose to give these illegals amnesty. To reward them for their criminality.
I'm not uncompassionate - I'm just sick to death of our country being sold down the river!

what's wrong with it? the are breaking the law are they not? isn't that why they are called illegal immigrants? what about all the people who lets say come from ireland or africa and immigrate here legally, aren't you just saying screw these people who immigrate legally, screw the law and just do things as you want, that sucks in my opinion. mexican's are taking this country over as far as i'm concerned, and yes they do take american jobs, where shall i start at...tyson foods maybe? we have one local town that not long ago all american, now it is all mexican and most of they are illegal all thank's to tyson foods. i don't blame mexicans though, i would be coming here too if i was in their situation, i blame big companies such as tyson.

Anyone who enters the United States ILLEGALLY should be deported. I don't give a shyte where they come from. This is an issue of national security. There's no other way to see it. ILLEGAL means CRIME! Are you FOR CRIMINALITY or AGAINST it?

ok geez..so much i want to reply to but dont no where to start..

As for the stealing the tv thing, you took it out of context and made it sound the way you wanted.

no,you used a bad example

And dont give me that "no American will do job" (c), someone will do it.

yes and if you want one of those jobs they are not hard to get,I Guarantee it you can get one..go try

They steal jobs from those already here

you cant steal something that nobody has claimed as there own..

Lets look at the Education system and the strain illegal have on it. Class over crowding, language recources needed, not to mention more tax payer dollars.

ok lets look at it..show me some stats

You keep bringing up Iraq but that is not what this thread is about. We are also spending money on a space program, should we scrap it to help the "poor mexicans"?

yes i keep bringing up iraq to show you that we are wasting tax dollars on other people besides our own citizens..so why not give some to mexicans if we can give insane amounts to iraqis care free?when i said "poor mexicans" i meant poor..as in no money..not like" poor little puppy" they are poor


Do you volenteer for any Mexican benifit? Make any Charitible donations? Do you employ one or let one that you dont know, stay with you?

no, but i do not speak out against their existence in this country

You are turning this in to selfishness and racisim.

i believe it is for most..whether you want to believe it or not

We have a country, we want to prosper just like any other.

we have prospered for many years compared to most of the world..but of coarse..we need more more more..right?


[Edited on 8-1-2004 by McGotti]

[Edited on 8-1-2004 by McGotti]

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Anyone who enters the United States ILLEGALLY should be deported. I don't give a shyte where they come from. This is an issue of national security. There's no other way to see it. ILLEGAL means CRIME! Are you FOR CRIMINALITY or AGAINST it?

oh come on eastcoastkid..i expected a little bit of compasion from you of all people but of coarse not...

I am against stupid laws that turn innocent people into criminals!!! like our absurb drug laws...i am totaly against them...and our new "patriot act"...look at all the people that are considered crimanals under the speach contained within the act..its a #ing joke...

"this is a matter of national sucurity"..oh great your turning into one of those cowards that are afraid of your own shadow..watch out..osama comin to get you with his illegal mexican buddies!!! where the g-man when you need them!!

[Edited on 8-1-2004 by McGotti]

Here art the stats to the edu system:

On top of all the other challenges facing the American educational system, massive illegal immigration is costing the nation�s schools $7.4 billion annually and has added 1.1 million students to the country�s overcrowded classrooms, finds Breaking the Piggy Bank, a new report from the Federation for American Immigration Reform. And those figures do not even take into account the impact of untold numbers of U.S.-born children of illegal aliens who must also be educated in school systems that, in many cases, can�t afford enough books or even to replace crumbling plaster in classrooms.


www.fairus.org...

Is that enough?

Originally posted by baked
Here art the stats to the edu system:

Is that enough?


Well, it is for me. You are stooping to nit picckin, petty name calling and twisting mine and others words around to make us seem hostile and greedy racists. since all your views have been proven wrong....Wrong you say?
I posted the stats that you asked to see.

wait i just figured out the answer..stop calling them illegal so the kids are not put into a minority therefore easily discriminated against and take back the billions wasted on iraq and put that towards the education system..there..i fixed the problem....hell from what i remember..and i went to alot better schools than the ones that were discribed in your article[no school i have attended has ever been as bad as the one discribe in the article you posted...and ive been to at least 10- 12 schools ranging from coast to coast..north to south[father was air force] most citizen legal children dont take advantage of the edu. system anyway....skipping school and drop outs a everywhere...so bad most schools stop recording the drop outs...

Wait heres another idea....repeal the insane drug laws and then you can use the money from the millions of prisoners in there because of drugs and you will have plenty of money to improve the schools..wit some money left over...

[Edited on 8-1-2004 by McGotti]

This is all just legalized slavery.

Originally posted by McGotti

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Anyone who enters the United States ILLEGALLY should be deported. I don't give a shyte where they come from. This is an issue of national security. There's no other way to see it. ILLEGAL means CRIME! Are you FOR CRIMINALITY or AGAINST it?

oh come on eastcoastkid..i expected a little bit of compasion from you of all people but of coarse not...

I do have compassion. But I also have commons sense and a burning desire to make my nation as safe as possible.

I am against stupid laws that turn innocent people into criminals!!!

If you enter any country in the world illegally you will be treated as a criminal. The same applies here. If the INS had been doing its job, we would not have this terrible problem. I say fire the basTurds! Replace them with people who will DO THEIR JOBS according to the laws. If you don't the laws, then you as a citizen have every right to work to change those laws. Until then, though, it is a crime to enter the US illegally, be it the Mexican border, the Florida coast or Canadian border.
like our absurb drug laws...i am totaly against them...and our new "patriot act"...look at all the people that are considered crimanals under the speach contained within the act..its a #ing joke...

Of course the drug laws are stoopid and the Patriot Acts completely destroy our constitution. My suggestion is to throw out 99% of our elected officials. Put the real people into the house and Senate. The majority of our current leaders are bought-off and bribed cowards.

"this is a matter of national sucurity"..oh great your turning into one of those cowards that are afraid of your own shadow..watch out..osama comin to get you with his illegal mexican buddies!!! where the g-man when you need them!!

I've been advocating this position since day one of the drawdown (1991). And when I lived in Arizona (Tucson and Phoenix mainly) my belief on this, was completely re-enforced. It has nothing to do with my 'being afraid.' It's common sense and do-able. Unfortunately, our leaders seem to display a sickening loyalty to anything other than our nation's safety and well-being. We are being flooded with a third-world danger from within. I'd think long and hard about that, if you love America.

And once again, I have no problem with any LEGAL immigrant. The diversity has made this country great. ILLEGALS are killing that.

[Edited on 8-1-2004 by McGotti]

Originally posted by baked

Originally posted by baked
Here art the stats to the edu system:

Is that enough?

Well, it is for me. You are stooping to nit picckin, petty name calling and twisting mine and others words around to make us seem hostile and greedy racists. since all your views have been proven wrong....Wrong you say?
I posted the stats that you asked to see.



wrong?..dude your link is from the "federation for american imagration reform"!!!! what the hell do you think they are going to say??? like i said no school i have ever attended was that bad and i have been to many schools...my friend that web-site is biased and is full of propoganda........and ill decide when i have been proven wrong!..you cant prove someones views wrong sir

You are stooping to nit picckin, petty name calling and twisting mine and others words around to make us seem hostile and greedy racists.

no,i have not stooped to what you say..in fact i believe its quite the opposite except for when i was provoked..

and as far as twisting your words around..no need..your words speak clearly...i have no need to "twist" that b.s. i did no such thing...and yes i believe you are a greedy racist simply in denial

[Edited on 8-1-2004 by McGotti]

Originally posted by McGotti
wait i just figured out the answer..stop calling them illegal so the kids are not put into a minority therefore easily dicriminated against and take back the billions wasted on iraqhere he goes about iraq again and put that towards the education system..there..i fixed the problem....hell from what i remember..and i went to alot better schools than the ones that were discribed in your article[no school i have attended has ever been as bad as the one discribe in the article you posted...and ive been to at least 10- 12 schools ranging from coast to coast..north to south[father was air force]I have, and so have others. So, since you never went to one does not mean they don't exist.

most citizen legal children dont take advantage of the edu. system anyway....skipping school and drop outs a everywhere...so bad most schools stop recording the drop outs...Now I would like to see your stats on this. Where is the numbers to back up this insane claim?

Wait heres another idea....repeal the insane drug laws and then you can use the money from the millions of prisoners in there because of drugs and you will have plenty of money to improve the schools..wit some money left over... Nice try....you are not going to get me on your side with the drug thing. Completly different story. you are just running one thing in to another in to another in to another.

Well I posted the numbers why don't you prove them wrong?

. We are being flooded with a third-world danger from within.

see now thats what im talking about...ok i understand peoples views on how emigrants draining the economy, but how many times do i have to hear such sensationalism as "flooded with a third-world danger from within" this is a scare tactic to get people to conform to your views...these are people..you know..like me and you..they are not a disease sent by god to damn america.....they simply want to earn a living...if you wanna get technical about theft...how about the fact we stole texas,california ect.. from mexico in the first place...and that was not that long ago..if anything we have caused alot of the hardships economicly in mexico and if you knew how the u.s. government worked you would know this....we want them broke and poor so they pose no threat milatarily..we had our troubles in this matter with mexico in the past..and it was not a easy war..you think the u.s. gov. forgot about that??? nope you ever notice nobody poses a threat to the u.s. in the western hem.??cuba did but we handled that somewhat..geez i can ramble lol..no hard feelings people[except for russian who i find distasteful]

[Edited on 8-1-2004 by McGotti]

Originally posted by baked

Originally posted by McGotti
wait i just figured out the answer..stop calling them illegal so the kids are not put into a minority therefore easily dicriminated against and take back the billions wasted on iraqhere he goes about iraq again and put that towards the education system..there..i fixed the problem....hell from what i remember..and i went to alot better schools than the ones that were discribed in your article[no school i have attended has ever been as bad as the one discribe in the article you posted...and ive been to at least 10- 12 schools ranging from coast to coast..north to south[father was air force]I have, and so have others. So, since you never went to one does not mean they don't exist.

most citizen legal children dont take advantage of the edu. system anyway....skipping school and drop outs a everywhere...so bad most schools stop recording the drop outs...Now I would like to see your stats on this. Where is the numbers to back up this insane claim?

Wait heres another idea....repeal the insane drug laws and then you can use the money from the millions of prisoners in there because of drugs and you will have plenty of money to improve the schools..wit some money left over... Nice try....you are not going to get me on your side with the drug thing. Completly different story. you are just running one thing in to another in to another in to another.

no i believe your debate skills are weak baked
..and as far the" drug thing" my friend i have a mutha fukkin felony poss. of marijuana charge so dont #in tell me when i can talk about my views on drug laws...

and for the schools...of coarse there are crappy schools..but i dont believe that propoganda you tried to pass off is the norm for the whole nation

and as far as the iraq thing..ok how can you NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT IM SAYING GEEZ...IF YOUR MAIN COMPLAINT IS ABOUT TAXES ECT.. THEN WHY IS IT OK TO SEND 84 BILLION TO IRAQ???? if you want all the taxes only for the native born or legally immigrated then you need to not contradict yourself..get it????
or do i need to repeat again for you?

[Edited on 8-1-2004 by McGotti]

Reagan did the same thing and look what happened...

Disaster!!!

Wasn't George on a drunkn bender durring those Reagan years?

Just why the # does he like reaganomnics so much?

It took us a decade to recover.

Originally posted by Colonel
This is all just legalized slavery.

oh yeah?

i didnt know that slave run to there owner and even commit illegal acts to get over the border...