Bush's plan for Illegals

I've been watching this discussion. It doesn't make illegals suddenly LEGAL, or citizens.

They can just continue to work here for three years, then renew it for up to another three IF SOME AMERICAN EMPLOYER PROFITS from it.

No corporate sponsor, or farm owner, or rich guy that needs a maid... NO STAY JOSE.

So YES it has nothing to do with helping immigrants OR American workers..... ONCE AGAIN IT'S ALL PRO-BUSINESS, SCREW THE LITTLE GUY, 100% BUSH.

what is it, eight million Americans without a job? well they sure won't have a chance of having one now. you may think that mexicans only do the crap jobs that many Americans won't do, but that is starting not to be the case. it's good to know mr.bush puts the country's future in the hands of illegals. and what about all the people that are immigrating here legally? screw them right? i bet last night was a hell of a busy night on the border, but i don't blame them, i'd be coming here too if i lived in a sucky country like mexico.

Originally posted by Flinx:

Anyway, this is one of the maybe 2 things Bush has proposed that I agree with. It's an ok idea, but it needs some polish. It's pretty clear that he's only doing it to get some of the Hispanic vote in november.

But why are Americans always complaining about Mexicans coming over the border? What do you think they're taking good jobs? You know like picking oranges, cleaning toilets, and mowing the lawn. Ha, without these people the country would probably collapse!

Too bad xenophobia and fear of brown people blinds people to the true reasons for illiegal immigration.

[Edited on 1/8/2004 by Flinx]

You say Americans won't pick oranges, clean tiolets or mow the lawn and this country would collapse? I think NOT!!
IF the Mexicans didn't work for so cheap, the people who can't wash their own crap from their tiolets, would be forced to pay more for the services and many Americans who are living in poverty or borderline poverty would gladly accept the job.


My whole point to this discussion, is that I don't think we as a country should be implementing new laws welcoming more people into this country, until we can take care of the American citizens who are already in this country.

but like most of the other posters here, this is all about votes and getting re-elected for Bush

Big compines are sending there jobs to other countries so the government is losing taxes. Its ok for the poor in america to be unemployed but big brother needs the cash, so the soultion is to allow illegals in the country to stay the compinies get cheap labor, big brother gets his slice of the pie and baby bush gets a HUGE new voter base so maybe this time he can win the election.

The only losers are the american workers and the aliens who were stupid enough to go through the proper channels.

And before anyone else calls me a racist where I work, a chicken plant, is almost 100% spanish and I have heard some really sad stories about the wages and living condishions and my heart goes out to them ....BUT this is not the answer. I do not blame the for coming here I would too if my family was going hungry and most of those I work with are hard working honest people but we need to lower the unemploment HERE first before we let MILLIONS of new workers into the US. When the economny picks back up sure let them in, just slow it up a bit right now.

And as I said this is not being done for them its being done to steal another election and to incress the profit margines of big business

I personally don't think this is going to pass through Congress. You'll have the left and right ripping this thing apart.

The way Bush presented the new bill on Wednesday, will not be the same bill when passed (if passed at all).

However, can you blame the citizens of Mexico for wanting to make a better life for themselves and their families? I think not, but if you want to do it, do it legally.

It wasn't that long ago, that the goverment was forced to adress its lack of law inforcement, by allowing illegals, " in this case Mexicans", citizenship, after the first thing they did when entering this country, was break the law! Enforcing legal entry of our borders, should not be considered a scoff law, from one administration, to the next. The US border patrol, is underfunded, and overworked. The combined cost of states that border Mexico, in dollars spent to provide medical, and educational services, to people that have no business here in the first place, far exceeds that of the entire Border Patrol's annual budget! We need to do one of two things here, enforce our laws, or offer Mexico statehood!

Instead of blaming poor mexican people who just want a chance of a decent life and work the crap jobs[stop being so #ing selfish people!!!] why dont you blame the huge,rich corporations that are sending all the good-mid level jobs over seas to have extremly poor people work in sweat shops so americans can buy cheap stuff[well,actually,they dont really pass the savings on to us..but they do make a bigger profit!]

Yes, Yes, once again I hear it "you selfish Americans".
Selfish my azz.....
Oh no, the poor Mexicans....

NO, I can't blame them for wanting a better life, but just like everyone else they have to wait their turn.
Maybe, Next time I want a better TV, ill just illegally enter my neighbors house and take theirs. After all they are rich and have more than enough. They should stop being so selfish.
We all wan't a better life.
But, being a citizen of this country, I believe that gives me first priority (or should anyway).
After all I am a citizen.
Does that mean anything any more?
We allow plenty of immigrants in each year, but it can never be enough.

I bet, if you move yer azz to a border town you would not be saying poor Mexicans. You'd be saying gawd damn Mexicans.

I got an idea....
Don't know why noone ever thought of this...
Why don't we let MEXICO take care of the MEXICANS, and AMERICA take care of the AMERICANS.

Like many Americans, I have no problem with people wanting to come over here, and doing so legally. Infact, my mother was an immigrant, but she waited her turn and so should they.

L8R
BAKED

That means if say "terrorists" sneak into US and sit here as sleepers illegally, instead of being hunted down and deported, they will be legal if they just wait 3 years? Great great! They can just sneak in through Mexico/Canada border After 3 years they are a legal citizen.... with a new US-authorized passport too... a new identity possibly too. And no one cares!

Because it proves that the Bush team cares more about the hispanic vote than the current voting population. This may indicate that, a) They expect a wider voting turn out and b) they are much more unpopular than people suspect.

Why not ? - isn't that what happened originally with the US. People moved there and worked for a living. I agree with Bush on this.

No, it isn't.

There is a BIG difference between coming here legally, and illegally. There are requirements to become a citizen. There is a process. If someone is willing to put forth the effort to do this, then yes, they can become a citizen.

The problem here is, these people are enjoying many of the benefits, without putting forth the effort, and without paying taxes to support those benefits. Therefore, they are in effect, directly robbing you and I, the American Tax Payer.

I can't say whether I am for or against Bush's plan, as I don't know the details yet. If it pushes for them to become tax-paying citizens, and to put forth the effort required to be a citizen, then sounds good. If not, then no way....

[Edited on 8-1-2004 by Gazrok]

Immigration is being used in all first world nations to destroy their sense of identity and their sense of nationhood. This is what the globalists want countries of mixed indeterminate race with not sense of identity so that the UN can convince them to surrender their loyalty.

This plan ONLY benefits the nonhuman, faceless, CORPORATION.

Look at the borders today, i'll bet their is just a wave, after wave of illegals entering. More, and more illegals are entering the u.s.A. on the sole reason of Bush's speech.

_______________________________________________

The CORPORATIONS will lower wages for them.

The illegals will accept the lower wages because they want to have a job when (if) this bill is passed.

The CORPORATIONS will have more workers for the same (or less) amount of money.

Now do the CORPORATIONS who hire these ILLEGALS get punished? No where have i seen that they will.

It seems to only be in their FAVOR! They get more workers, working for cheap wages, and don't get punished!

So what do they get?

MORE PROFIT!


Who's going to take care of these ILLEGALS?

Not the CORPORATIONS, that's for sure. More then likely the STATES will have to care for them.

Nothing like creeping socialism to destroy a republic.

God save The United States of America!

God save the republic.

Maybe, Next time I want a better TV, ill just illegally enter my neighbors house and take theirs.

how can you compare this to what we are talking about...they dont break into houses and steal the things that you have already earned....[they go out and fill hard labor jobs that are obviously not wanted..and actually looked down apon by most people...]they EARN the money they make..they do not steal it...they usaully work longer and harder for less money then most "legal" citizens do.

being a citizen of this country, I believe that gives me first priority

First priority to what baked? last time i checked i could get any job these people have..i wouldnt have any trouble getting a construction job or working in a hotel..in fact i have..and i worked along side mexicans...they didnt steal anything from me my friend.


After all I am a citizen. Does that mean anything any more?

yes it does...you get to vote..bear arms..goto school for free.ect.. ect...besides..were does it mention anything about your rights for jobs in the constitution??I dont remember reading anything along the lines of ---"the native born peoples of this country will get all the jobs over the poeple that immigrate here"

I bet, if you move yer azz to a border town you would not be saying poor Mexicans. You'd be saying gawd damn Mexicans.

I live very far south and that is why I feel the way i do..i see and personally know these people and many[most] of them are better,more honest,more deserving,and more appreciative of what they have then most native born.mexicans are good people ..your prejudice's shine bright in your statements


Why don't we let MEXICO take care of the MEXICANS, and AMERICA take care of the AMERICANS

really..i agree..the government loves to help out other countries...hence .."operation iraqi freedom".. america taking care of americans i agree....but we are not taking care of mexicans..they work and earn what they get..they dont get billions sent to their country from here do they??

The problem here is, these people are enjoying many of the benefits, without putting forth the effort, and without paying taxes to support those benefits.

well actually.. thats not true for alot...most people that come hear illegaly get false id's and recieve regular paychecks like the rest of us and therefore pay taxes like the rest of us..

Therefore, they are in effect, directly robbing you and I, the American Tax Payer.

well again ..If you want to get mad about your tax dollars being robbed from you look no further than your government and a little place called iraq...remember your 84 BILLION DOLLARS getting sent to iraqi people ..who by the way are not citizens of the u.s.,,,dont hear ya bitching to much about that one..what..you think iraqis are better than mexicans??? im sure mexicans wouldnt be coming here as much if we sent 84 BILLION DOLLARS to help rebuild their country


you wanna blame people for the unemployment problem..blame your government and blame all the companies sending all of our jobs over seas to people who are not american citizens..





[Edited on 8-1-2004 by McGotti]

Well I will try to take this discussion even further. Based upon my experience living in Toronto which the UN called the most diverse community on earth, I think that immigrants on the whole cost companies more than locals to employ.

Thus, I am arguing that most immigrants are a drain on the economy and the companies hiring them even when compared to using locals.

So why do they do it? to please the satanic power that runs the earth, to do as they bid and in return the major corps. receive access to international trade etc.

these are actual human beings you know...these are not people being used by the government to forward their globalization agenda..the government is having no real trouble along those lines anyway last time i checked..they dont need a some illegal mexicans to push forward a globalist economy..




Immigration is being used in all first world nations to destroy their sense of identity and their sense of nationhood. This is what the globalists want countries of mixed indeterminate race with not sense of identity so that the UN can convince them to surrender their loyalty.

geezus..im #ing danish and german[native born american though] do you mean mixing the races simply by color...in other words your just racist right??

come on people..what does it say on the statue of liberty?? anyone remember?? i doubt anybody knows what it says without looking it up..

selfish ,selfish people,and always blaming the wrong people..you know the kkk uses most of the same arguments most of you are using...why dont you go join some of their rallies..you have alot in common with the kkk

[Edited on 8-1-2004 by McGotti]

Originally posted by McGotti
these are actual human beings you know...these are not people being used by the government to forward their globalization agenda..the government is having no real trouble along those lines anyway last time i checked..they dont need a some illegal mexicans to push forward a globalist economy..




Immigration is being used in all first world nations to destroy their sense of identity and their sense of nationhood. This is what the globalists want countries of mixed indeterminate race with not sense of identity so that the UN can convince them to surrender their loyalty.

geezus..im #ing danish and german[native born american though] do you mean mixing the races simply by color...in other words your just racist right??

come on people..what does it say on the statue of liberty?? anyone remember?? i doubt anybody knows what it says without looking it up..

selfish ,selfish people,and always blaming the wrong people..you know the kkk uses most of the same arguments most of you are using...why dont you go join some of their rallies..you have alot in common with the kkk

[Edited on 8-1-2004 by McGotti]

again I don't believe this has anything to do with racism...but look carefully, who is plan gonna benefit most??? not the haitian immigrants, africans, arabs, indians, south americans etc etc, this is mainly do with the Mexicans and the borders of Texas and California.

again, I am an immigrant to this country. I followed the legal system, my relatives followed the legal system.. why are special exemptions being made for only certain people and not everyone on the globe then???

how is it that when Haitians land on American soil, they get sent back, but Cubans get hearings and most of them end of staying?

The history of the American Government shows that they love to exploit people of other races....look at what happened to your ancestors the native American Indians.

I DONT believe that anyone here thinks that Mexicans are not good people or hard workers, we are just stating that by allowing them to come here and work for subservient standards it will change the standards of how American citizen work and live.

To push forward globalism you need to destroy nationalistic pride, nationhood, and idea of race. Then there are other things too of course.

The globalists use immigration to destroy first world countries in order to impose a one world order. Business people being short sighted and greedy agree to this not thinking about their children, grandchildren or great grandchildren and what they are to face in future.

The 'immigration' problem has been with the US for many, many years. This is not the first time a proposal, as mentioned by the Bush Administration, has been kicked up.

Here:

"The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 offered amnesty to illegal aliens who had lived in the United States continuously since before January 1, 1982, or who had worked at least 90 days at farm labor in the United States between May 1, 1985, and May 1, 1986. The act also set penalties on employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants. By the end of the amnesty period in 1988, more than 3 million illegal aliens had applied for amnesty. However, hundreds of thousands of others did not apply for various reasons, including the cost and confusion involved in filing, concerns about splitting up families, and the lack of adequate residency or employment records. In addition, critics of the 1986 law claimed that it had only a minor effect on the flow of illegal aliens into the country.


In 1990, further amendments to the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 increased the number of immigrants allowed into the United States each year. Ceilings were fixed at 700,000 annually for 1992 to 1994 and 675,000 annually beginning in 1995. Like the 1965 amendments, the 1990 amendments place no limit on the number of U. S. Citizens' immediate relatives who could enter the country each year. The ceilings also did not include refugees. The 1990 amendments gave additional preference to people from countries that had sent relatively few immigrants to the United States in recent years. These countries included many Europeans and African nations. (Source: American History, pp. 456-457)."

Source:
"Immigration in the United States"
Link:
www.yale.edu...



regards
seekerof

Seekerof,

all true but in the past there wasn't as many as there are now and growing exponentially everyday...

the people that push this do it because they make money from it but they sell out their own country for mere money... they should be shot as traitors IMHO.