Hamas Winning Battle In Gaza

Hamas Winning Battle In Gaza

www.npr.org

Confrontations have turned increasingly brutal in recent days, with some killed execution-style in the streets, others in hospital shootouts or thrown off rooftops. Both sides have been arming themselves in recent weeks, smuggling weapons through tunnels under the Gaza-Egypt border.

Hamas has been systematically taking control of major positions in the north and south, apparently leaving Gaza City, the strip's security and political nerve center, for last.

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www.jpost.com
news.brisbanetimes.com.au

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So the civil war has reached the apex in Gaza. This brings one thing to my chain of thought? What will this mean for Gaza? Fatah will be out, Hamas will be in. It seems to me one must take into account the Hamas charter. See the links below for additional information.
hamas charter

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edit for link

[edit on 13-6-2007 by RedGolem]

Funny that Fatah was in power by the choice of the population and by elections.

Now Hamas will be in power by force.

It seems that some outside forces never wanted Fatah to be in power in Palestine but somebody seems to think is a good idea to have Hamas.

Marg,
Thanks for the response, and yes some one does want to have Hamas in power. That is why I posted the link to there charter. One of the core ideologies of Hamas is being opposed to the existence of Israel. There for most any charastmatic extremist can go and raise some money to buy and smuggle weapons and get them to fighters for Hamas.
I kind of trivialised the whole process but that is kind of what is happening in a nut shell.
Because of the Hamas charter the world may see Israel taking a much more active role in the Gaza strip now.

Originally posted by RedGolem
One of the core ideologies of Hamas is being opposed to the existence of Israel.

Don't you see this as strange, taking into consideration that when Fatah won the elections it was a good chance of peace talks and good intentions right after they took power, but for some reason Israel was not to play in the deals and was never realy encouraged by the UN and ignored by the US even when Saudi Arabia encourage US to be part and influence Israel into peace.

The time for that is over with, seems to me that Israel never really care about Palestine and their good intentions at the time.

There for most any charastmatic extremist can go and raise some money to buy and smuggle weapons and get them to fighters for Hamas.

I wonder if the money is been funded to keep the fight going so it will never be peace, perhaos not by the people we think.

Because of the Hamas charter the world may see Israel taking a much more active role in the Gaza strip now.

You never know, that may be the whole point so Israel can say that they have no choice.

Originally posted by marg6043
Funny that Fatah was in power by the choice of the population and by elections.

Now Hamas will be in power by force.

It seems that some outside forces never wanted Fatah to be in power in Palestine but somebody seems to think is a good idea to have Hamas.

Wrong way round Marge. Hamas won the Parliamentary elections (Hence the embargo and sanctions against them by the West), whereas the Presidency of the PA is controlled by Fatah.

Both formed a Government of National unity about a month or two ago, but it has crumbled with the latest fighting.

Originally posted by stumason
Both formed a Government of National unity about a month or two ago, but it has crumbled with the latest fighting.

But what I don't understand is that for a while it seems to be working, but the sanctions and Israel defiance, are also responsible for the problem.

Why the government was not allow to get a change? who is behind the now struggles between them?

Still if seems that is same forces at play wanting this two groups and Palestine to fail at every turn.

I thought that Israel was now willing to give up the Golan Heights? If they're making an overture like that, I don't understand how they are being defiant.

I don't want fighting in the region. But can anyone actually say that if Israel were to stop their military actions and pull back to their original borders--not even the '67 ones--that everyone in the region would be appeased? That's always been the sticking point to me.

The Arab countries don't want the Palestinian refugees; they have made that clear for years. As such, I don't see what they would accept, short of the dismantlement of the Israeli state. Maybe that should be an option, as impossible as that sounds.

Frankly, this whole problem is Europe's fault. Years of meddling around in the Middle East at the beginning of the century followed by the establishment of Israel because of that whole wacky "try to kill all the Jews every once in a while" thing. Those are just complaints at this point, but Europe hasn't taken a large constructive role in the problem other than supporting the people, which is good, but doesn't give them a future to look forward to.

Regardless, I would like to see Jerusalem be an international city under the auspices of the UN again. Of course, then you have something akin to West Berlin again....

[edit on 6/13/2007 by Togetic]

I can't imagine why anyone would be surprised by this development. Hamas has never intended to share power with anyone except maybe Iran. Their long-term goal is to eliminate Israel - this is just another step along the way:

- Rebuild defenses in southern Lebanon - Check

- Rearm in southern Lebanon with thousands of missiles from Iran - Check

- Take over Gaza - Check

- Eliminate Fata and end all peace negotiations with Israel - In Progress

- Rearm in Gaza with thousands of missiles from Iran - In Progress

- Take over the West Bank - Soon

- Rearm in the West Bank with thousands of missiles from Iran - Soon

- Attack the UN forces in Lebanon so they will leave - Soon

- Ultimately mount massive attacks against Israel - Sooner Than We Think

- Don't stop with Israel, move on to Europe and beyond

Originally posted by marg6043
Funny that Fatah was in power by the choice of the population and by elections.

Now Hamas will be in power by force.

It seems that some outside forces never wanted Fatah to be in power in Palestine but somebody seems to think is a good idea to have Hamas.

Actually Marge...Hamas was elected by the palistianian people themselves.They must have thought hamas would help their plight when in fact they are worse off than ever.

Originally posted by Xfile

Actually Marge...Hamas was elected by the palistianian people themselves.

Well thanks I get confuse with Hamas and Fatah and all the different groups around the area, but I thought that Hamas was better than Fatah.




[edit on 13-6-2007 by marg6043]

Originally posted by marg6043

Originally posted by Xfile

Actually Marge...Hamas was elected by the palistianian people themselves.

Well thanks I get confuse with Hamas and Fatah and all the different groups around the area, but I thought that Hamas was better than Fatah.




[edit on 13-6-2007 by marg6043]

I understand Marge.I think the problem the palistians faced was do we what to keep Fatah(u.s.backed)but very corrupt,pro status quo Or vote hamas and drive israel into the sea bet yet STILL give us international funding?Thats why i thought they made bad choice but cant blame them for trying to improve their families lives.

This is really quite significant. It's like watching the Nazi party come to power in Germany. I'm surprised thatthe israwlis aren't lending more support to Fatah, but then again old hates do run deep. I would imagine that the Palestinian President is in hiding just now, wondering if he will still have a job by the end of the month.

If Hamas can break Fatah, and take full control of that government, we will see a radical power shift in the region. All the people who cried about the dangers to Israel will now be oh-so-very "right."

With Hamas in full control of the Palestinian territories, you'll see Hezbollah topple the government in Lebanon. Beruit will burn. Syrian influence will grow. Iranian support of those regimes will increase, and the insurgency in Iraq will double in scope and scale within a year.

Political events here at home will force the next U.S. President to put an end to the mission in Iraq. If Hamas wins in Gaza--within one year--events in the Middle East will add further momentum to any U.S. withdrawl. We will leave Iraq in the same way that France left Vietnam/Indochina after Dien Bien Phu.

Justin this can be very easily control, if US finish his agenda for the middle east and attack Iran.

This will put a hold to Hezbollah, Hamas and Fatah problems in Palestine.

Or it will be the end of the middle east as we know it, when they will rise to the death to protect their lands, including Iraq.

Even when Saddam was "evil" he was holding the area at check but now the freedom given to them by US taking Saddam has spread to the entire area.

No matter what the outcome, the palastinian people are the losers. Now we have to factions of palestianians fighting for political control.

The children will be raised with hatred in their hearts.

They will view the Isealies and the US as bitter enemies but they won't really understand why.

There will never be peace in the middle east as long as children (on both sides) are brought up to hate.

Originally posted by Wildbob77
No matter what the outcome, the palastinian people are the losers. Now we have to factions of palestianians fighting for political control.

The Palestinians are the architects of their own demise. They have always been their own worst enemy. There is a reason they are not welcome in other Muslim countries. When I say Palestinian, I'm referring to their leaders and not the innocent citizens. It's kind of a strange irony in a way.

I don't think there is anything anyone can do to stop them from destroying themselves. Even if Israel were to cease to exist, they would just turn their energies toward killing each other. We are seeing the exact same thing in Iraq right now. Our presence is keeping it to a dull roar, but when we leave Iraq will be very much the same.

The only hope for these people and other terrorist sponsoring cultures is something they can never give. You are correct in that it has to start with the children. How does anyone go about stopping these people from raising their children to be good little terrorists and butchering each other or anyone who does not enter into lockstep with them? The brainwashing is just passed from generation to generation. They have no concept of a culture where people get along and killing people based on radical religious beliefs is not tolerated.

Killing and warfare has become an integral part of their system. They must have an enemy even if they have to invent one. This system is so old that current events are only a symptom of a much larger problem. This culture of hate has been passed down for so many generations its elimination is probably impossible. I see their only hope for a future as being a slow assimilation into other cultures. The problems that creates is obvious. Instead of assimilating into their hosts culture they inevitably attempt to force the culture they bring with them onto the host. Then the killing and mayhem start all over again. It is very much like a drug resistant virus.

Originally posted by Togetic

I don't want fighting in the region. But can anyone actually say that if Israel were to stop their military actions and pull back to their original borders--not even the '67 ones--that everyone in the region would be appeased? That's always been the sticking point to me.

Togetic,
that is a good point you made, and to answer your question, no I don't think they would be appeased. The charter of Hamas does kind of make that point. I think Justen made a very good point, that there will soon be a dramatic power shift in the region.

Originally posted by Justin Oldham
This is really quite significant. It's like watching the Nazi party come to power in Germany. I'm surprised thatthe israwlis aren't lending more support to Fatah, but then again old hates do run deep. I would imagine that the Palestinian President is in hiding just now, wondering if he will still have a job by the end of the month.

Justin,
the paragraph above I think is about the best comparison to this situation that I have heard yet. It also shows just how scary the whole situation can be. I wonder if any of the world leaders have made the same realization?

Originally posted by Blaine91555

The Palestinians are the architects of their own demise. They have always been their own worst enemy. There is a reason they are not welcome in other Muslim countries. When I say Palestinian, I'm referring to their leaders and not the innocent citizens.

Blaine,
What you said above is a good point to note. The same thing has been said about most every power in the world, be it past or present. The leading powers in the world today being no exception.

Here is an update I came across.
It does talk a little bit about how Israel might react.

Hamas effectively completed its victory over Fatah in the Gaza Strip yesterday following a day of fighting in which 26 persons lost their lives. Most of the dead were affiliated with Fatah, although at least two civilians participating in a peace demonstration and two United Nations aid workers were also killed. Since the fighting began on Sunday, at least 67 Palestinians were killed in the internecine battles.

In Israel, the situation emerging in the Gaza Strip is lending greater urgency to the decision of Prime Minister Ehud Olmert to promote an initiative for the deployment of a multinational force along the Philadelphi Route and for the construction of a barrier to combat smuggling of arms and weapons into the Gaza Strip. A strategy for the containment of the current situation will be on the agenda of talks between Olmert and U.S. President George Bush in Washington next Tuesday.