Palestinians on verge of all out civil war

Hamas has taken over the northern Gaza strip and the Fatah headquarters. 37 killed in 2 days of fighting-the majority being PA members and Fatah members. Fatah has pulled out of the unity government until the fighting stops.

www.jpost.com...

www.haaretz.com...

www.reuters.com...

english.aljazeera.net...

Pretty sad, a nation so passionate about fighting the occupier, has evolved to fighting itself.
Why are palestinians killing each other?, why even bother arguing for the power position of the westbank and gaza strip...
society doesnt exist there.

No matter who says 'im the elected official' Israel will still dictate how your people will live.

Everytime another life is extinguished in palestine, i feel a little bit more understanding with Irans leader, and a little bit more anger toward Israel.
They have no desire, to allow palestinians comfort, prosperity or confidence.... so why shouldnt muslims want the ceasation of opression over its muslims brothers in palestine?

Could you just agree and accept when one of your kin is being treated like this?
Just take America and Israel into your heart, ignoring all those pictures of your fellow man being beaten, pushed around, embarresed, murdered, orphaned, bombed, harrassed, abused......

Id be ashamed, to say im a proud friend of israel.

[edit on 12-6-2007 by Agit8dChop]

[edit on 12-6-2007 by Agit8dChop]

Originally posted by Agit8dChop

Everytime another life is extinguished in palestine, i feel a little bit more understanding with Irans leader, and a little bit more anger toward Israel.
They have no desire, to allow palestinians comfort, prosperity or confidence.... so why shouldnt muslims want the ceasation of opression over its muslims brothers in palestine?

So there should be no sense of accountability on the part of the Palestinians? They (the Palestinians) are reaping what they have sown. Who exactly elected HAMAS? Did anyone think they would be a moderating rather than a radicalizing force in Palestinian politics?

Sorry to say this but this really comes down to Arafat's unwillingness to actually form a real government since the Oslo accords. Sure you can blame Israel and the U.S. and everyone else, but the primary blame is on the Palestinians themselves. If they really wanted a State with a peaceful existence with Israel, they could have managed to get it done. They wanted all or nothing and guess what they got? The Israelis and the West for that matter should have nothing to do with Hamas till it recognizes Israel's right to peacefully coexist. Why negotiate with someone who basically wants you to cease existing?

It is up to the Palestinians to choose which path they wish to proceed upon............

Palestinians just showing their own true colors basically. They cant even live together in the same space yet they are gonna make peace with Israel? ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!! They elected HAMAS to be their leadership...a freaking terrorist, radical, extremist organization. And this is suppose to help them how??

Originally posted by princeofpeace
Palestinians just showing their own true colors basically. They cant even live together in the same space yet they are gonna make peace with Israel? ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!! They elected HAMAS to be their leadership...a freaking terrorist, radical, extremist organization. And this is suppose to help them how??

It's called divide and conquer. The US and Israel did the same thing with Iran against Iran.

Israel did it recently by bombing all of Lebanon trying to get them to fight each other. Israel has been trying to get Palestinians to fight each other for years.

It still doesnt explain why the Palestinian people elected a radical, terrorist organization to be their leadership. Is this more of a case where they reap what they sow?

Originally posted by princeofpeace
It still doesnt explain why the Palestinian people elected a radical, terrorist organization to be their leadership. Is this more of a case where they reap what they sow?

jeeeeeeeeeeeeez

maybe these points will explain

1. Caged like animals (Barrier around west bank)

2. all their movements resitricted, half an hour drive made into 4 hours+

3. their entire economic structure in shambles as trade is hard due to
Israeli restrictions.

4. cuvilains killed by israeli forces daily

5. Israelis demolishing Homes

6. Israelis building in occupied areas with no care for international laws on occupation.

so seeing the above i dont see any reason for them not to vote for hamas
if it were my country or anything like this should happen in England i would be up in arms

Originally posted by bodrul
........so seeing the above i dont see any reason for them not to vote for hamas
if it were my country or anything like this should happen in England i would be up in arms

Even you would have to admit that the Palestinian leadership for the past oh say..... 35 years or so has done nothing but continue to cause and perpetuate grief for the Palestinian citizens they claim to serve. Everytime things get moving in the right direction something seems to happen. When was the last time there was a real comprehensive Palestinian peace proposal or even counter proposal, not one from the Arab League?

How much money in handouts have the Palestinians received from various groups and nations around the world and what do the Palestinian people have to show for it? Primary responsibility lies with the leadership the Palestinian people have chosen. They (the Palestinians) never seem to think any of this is ever their own fault. It's time for them to realize that part of the problem is looking right back at them in the mirror.

The comprehensive palestinian peace proposal is simply that Israel get all their people out of the WB&Gaza, a link between the 2 is created-2 states along 1967 borders and call it even-the Palestinians have only asked for that a million times, when your talking about an area that small-ending some of the occupation doesn't meet the minimum standard of freedom and normalcy--who else in this world is asked to live like the Palestinians-in a big jail.

Hamas is a 'radical terrorist organization because it thinks that country should be an "islamic state" where israel is not radical for making it a 'jewish state'? if israel is not gonna leave the wb then maybe it's time to talk about just making it a state of it's people with a single government.. like the thing they are supposed to have in Lebanon, Iraq, USA, south africa, bosnia, or any other country where there are different people living together..why does israel get all this special treatment?

Originally posted by corruptioninvestigator
The comprehensive palestinian peace proposal is simply that Israel get all their people out of the WB&Gaza, a link between the 2 is created-2 states along 1967 borders and call it even-......


.......Hamas is a 'radical terrorist organization because it thinks that country should be an "islamic state" where israel is not radical for making it a 'jewish state'?

That is not the Palestinians offer. Please look it up. There are more conditions than that. And no offense, but the party that loses a conflict does not get the right to dictate the terms.

As for Hamas, take a look at their charter. Where is the mention of the State of Israel? There isn't. It refers to Palestine as the only State in the area of Israel and the West Bank/ Gaza. Why negoiate with someone who wants your total destruction? Hamas as a whole, is radical and terrorist by any definition you want to use.

This conflict has happened becasue The U.S with helpful advice from the Israeil leadership is trying to destroy the democratically elected government Hamas of Palestine. The elections were widely hailed as fair, compared to the U.S thats a pretty good achievment in a land under occupation. Now since that election Hamas has had a ceasefire agreement with Israeil in which no suicide bombers (Something Hamas were infamous for) have been sent in, whilst Israeil still bombs leaders of the Hamas movement. The Fatha movement is basically a proxy of Israeil, where it's only real power is in the West Bank where Israeil is basically in complete control, this has been shown by the swift victory for Hamas in Gaza. Hamas wanted to be part of a unity government but Fatah under Abbas has made this as diffucult as possible, whilst being supplied with weapons and money by the U.S to get rid of Hamas in the inevitable showdown. Now i'm not trying to say that Hamas is god's gift to the Palestinian people who are clearly suffering hugely, but they have at least made an attempt to change which the U.S and international community ignored.
Have a read of these articles
www.counterpunch.org...
conflictsforum.org...

[edit on 15-6-2007 by Peruvianmonk]

Look what up? which proposal? The arab leauge proposal is simply Israel returns to it's 1967 border and a "just solution to the refugee problem" that would indicate something other than returning to Israel..Israel could at least start negotiating on that basis, aggreeing to the borders and negotiating the rest while making it clear that refugees can not return.

The Fatah faction of the Palestinians simply wants to restart final status negotiations where they left off at Taba in 2000..less than the arab league offer.

Hamas position that a jewish state be abolished is ideological, what they have said is that Israel simply has to return to it's 1967 positions and it will observe a total cease fire for "20 years" this ultimatum says nothing about refugees.

and obviously the conflict isn't over..now the Palestinians in Israel (or Israeli Arabs) are also calling for Israel to cease being a jewish state..

Originally posted by corruptioninvestigator
Look what up? which proposal? The arab leauge proposal is simply Israel returns to it's 1967 border and a "just solution to the refugee problem" that would indicate something other than returning to Israel

Again, name the Palestinians, not the Arab League's most recent comprehensive proposal? You know why you can't? There hasn't been one. The A.L. proposal is mainly a Saudi proposal with backing from other key Arab countries. The P.A., Fatah ect. have not come up with anything of substance for over a decade, even the things they have agreed to they have not done. Disbanding all the militia's sounds like a good plan now, doesn't it? The PA didn't want to upset Hamas and Islamic Jihad. Too bad it's years too late. But that's the M.O. of the Palestinian leadership; too little, too late.

Hamas position that a jewish state be abolished is ideological, what they have said is that Israel simply has to return to it's 1967 positions and it will observe a total cease fire for "20 years" this ultimatum says nothing about refugees.

Oh boy, I'll trust Hamas on that one! Ideological my ........! Pray tell, what do you think Hamas has envisioned after the 20 year ceasefire? The only reason you would create such a condition is that you are so whacked that you think most of the world would think your proposal is "so generous". I mean look how peaceful Hamas is ......they will wait twenty years till they try to destroy Israel. Here's another hint, losers of a war don't issue ultimatiums.

The Geneva Accords is a proposal, it was signed by official members of the PA and opposition Israeli leaders, it was basically a completion of the talks they were holding at Taba..both those things are "proposals" proposals don't do much good when Israel refuses to attend any realistic final status negotiations. If the Israelis can't accept realistic conditions for rights and freedom because it will cause their state to be "destroyed", its not the Palestinians problem that Israel is inherently racist.

Militias are disbanded when the conflict is over, and this war isn't over, Israel is fighting a war against itself because it's an aphartied state, it's fighting people inside it's capital city; it's not like fighting for some mostly empty terriory like the sinai, and Israel did win that war, and Egypt did issue ultimatums (that they would keep attacking if they didn't get their territory back) and Israel did give it back so your obviously wrong.

It doesn't matter if Israel trusts Hamas or not, they can pull back to the 1967 border, if Hamas attacks anyways they can re-occupy as a punitive measure. I think in 20 years the cease fire can be renewed or they would face a reoccupation in 20 years.

anyone who knows something about the nature of Israel knows that in 20 or 30 years Hamas won't have to do anything.

Agit8dChop,
Seems to me your shoveling some things other than coal. Israel defends Israel.
Within Palestine, their fighters are suicide bombers killing INNOCENT Israelis. Wondering if you can see the light on their demise Sir?

Of course they tend to do the little vid thing first...I suppose to ensure the lethal weapon carriers can't and will not back-down from maiming and killing as many Israeli Children, Men and Wives as possible -- hah?

Israelis in this hemisphere are people trying to survive without sell their lives away sir.

Dallas

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
Everytime another life is extinguished in palestine, i feel a little bit more understanding with Irans leader, and a little bit more anger toward Israel.

Why? The 'palestinians' are the ones killing each other. Israel is just sitting back and letting them stew in their own self-destructive juices.

Originally posted by pavil
So there should be no sense of accountability on the part of the Palestinians?

Exactly. Everyone needs to quit blaming other peoples. This is 'palestinian' on 'palestinian' violence.

It is up to the Palestinians to choose which path they wish to proceed upon..

They have. Self destruction. But then .. they have always chosen whatever the worst path for themselves was. Arafat (that pedophile child rapist, murdering, terrorist) could have ended this years ago when Clinton had the Camp David talks. But Arafat chose to continue death and destruction of the 'palestinians'. He taught them all well .. they continue with his self-destructive ways even today.

Originally posted by princeofpeace
Palestinians just showing their own true colors basically.

Yep. Murder whoever you need to so that you can have power.

The question is .. who cares? They kill each other off ... so what? It's the Darwin effect in full force. The idiots kill each other off and the collective IQ of humanity raises a few notches.

Societies come and go. The Huns came and went. The Spartains came and went. The Ancient Egyptian empire came and went. America is here now but will someday be gone. The 'palestinians' will kill themselves off. So what? Change is the only constant.

Maybe this shall explain:

Gen. Dayton admits US is helping Fatah

As violence raged this week in the Gaza Strip between Hamas and Fatah, US officials stressed the importance of American efforts to bolster forces loyal to the latter and said further help was necessary.

Fatah to Israel: Let us get arms to fight Hamas

Senior Fatah officials in the Gaza Strip have asked Israel to allow them to receive large shipments of arms and ammunition from Arab countries, including Egypt. The group says it needs the weapons to counter attacks by Hamas, which has an overwhelming advantage in the Gaza Strip.

As we can clearly see, the civil war in divided Palestine is sponsored from outside - by United States and Israel, since they both win in this situation, where brothers and sisters in Palestine are fighting among each other for power over their small and densly populated land. And let us not forget, that Hamas WON the election in Palestine, and since everybody wants "democracy" in Middle East, it looks like "they" do not like the outcome of it. PM Abbas is then nothing more but a western puppet ruler of Palestine, who is supported by Untied States, Europe and Russia. Yet another example of Balkanization in the Middle East; a slow but effective process of fragmentation or division of a region or state into smaller regions or states that are often hostile or non-cooperative with each other. And I know very well how that starts and ends, since I do live in Balkan.

First of all most of the pedofiles in the world are in Americas violent, society, in which you have rapes every 2 minutes and 16000 murders a year-this being a direct result of it's foreign policy which effects it's domestic policy; Arab and islamic society might have violent ethnic conflict but countries like Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Iran, Libya etc. are almost entirly crime free especially when it comes to grouse crimes like child rape-and what the hell are you talking about Arafat!? what utter hogwash is this!? users should be banned for TROLLING like taht.

Arafat [bunch of BS!] could have ended this years ago when Clinton had the Camp David talks.

and the only thing Arafat was ever offered was an aphartied sheme, even Yossi Beilen-Israels lead negotiator at those talks admitted this in a book he wrote and countless interviews since then-that there was no realistic offer made at camp david at 2000, and lets not forget it was Clinton and Barak that terminated both camp david talks and the talks at Taba, the Palestinians were willing to stay there however long it took to nail down an aggreement; AND the Palestinians have been willing to return to those negotiations where they left off ever since then-it's the Israelis that refuse finial status negotiations.

[edit on 16-6-2007 by corruptioninvestigator]

[edit on 16-6-2007 by corruptioninvestigator]

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Originally posted by Agit8dChop
Everytime another life is extinguished in palestine, i feel a little bit more understanding with Irans leader, and a little bit more anger toward Israel.

Why? The 'palestinians' are the ones killing each other. Israel is just sitting back and letting them stew in their own self-destructive juices.

The palestinians, have been like caged animals until the 50's...
taken from their homes, forced to live in squaller camps...
with hatred building .. for over 50yrs..
imagine being torn from your home right now, in the middle of the night

taken to a refugee camp and told... '' this is the way it is now ''

you'd rise up wouldnt you?
we allowed guns, and munitions to flow in through the egyptian and syrian borders.. knowing full well agit8ed palestinians would 'eveantually' fight eachother for control, half were appeases, half were pro 'palestinian'

right now is the erradication of any palestinian whom 'agree's' with allowing israeli existance in palestine.

mark my words, these men will never be reasoned with, beacuse so long as israel exists on palestinian land, palestinians will be fighting to remove them.

America was stupid enough to believe it could maniuplate and control these people to rape their lands.... its citizens will suffer for their stupidity, because they couldnt contain their own leaders...


[edit on 16-6-2007 by Agit8dChop]

Israelis were on "Palestinian" land 2,000 years ago. This is nothing new.