American Gulag-Pay to Stay

The government has a new thing out to abuse at will. They can throw you into a cell, for whatever reason they want, on whatever charge they dream up, and not only can they make you stay there, they'll charge you money for the visit.

Just like a hotel that can't get customers, they'll drag them in off the street.

www.adasheriff.org/Jail/jailBill.asp


It's USD$25.00 per day. This is even pre-trial. So if you are arrested, sit in jail for two months to go to trial, and are found not guilty and released, you can still be charged USD$1500.00 for the fun you had there. I have heard of this being used in Kansas and Arkansas, so it's spreading. It may already be in a town near you.

Now before you say that they deserve to have to pay, how can we be following the concept of innocent until proven guilty, if the local government can force you to purchase your stay at their facility?

And any town that would work a speed trap to bring in extra money will work this one. Who says crime doesn't pay?

[edit on 12-6-2007 by NGC2736]

[edit on 12-6-2007 by NGC2736]

[edit on 12-6-2007 by NGC2736]

Doesn't suprise me. I had a car accident on the 27th of May. The other driver was at fault and cited. Last Wednesday I got a bill in the mail from the Township where the accident happened for $250. I put a copy in an envelope and sent it to his insurance company, they said that they would add it to the estimate check.

Originally posted by NGC2736

They can throw you into a cell, for whatever reason they want, on whatever charge they dream up

Where exactly does this part come into play ?

Not in the link you provided.

And, I think it's a great idea. Ease up some of the tax dollars I pay.

Puzzled,
Lex

Originally posted by NGC2736

And any town that would work a speed trap

Speeds are posted.

You choose to speed, you pay the fine.

What here is a trap ?

Baffled,
Lex

Lexion, under the new Patriot Act laws, you can be charged as an "enemy combatant" for anything the govt wants. They don't have to produce evidence against you or even let you know what the charges are. This can happen and HAS happened to U.S. citizens - that's how they filled up Gitmo, for example.

Are you sure you read this thoroughly? If so, how would you like to be charged with something, stay in jail for 2 months, losing your good reputation, losing your job and possibly your home, and then be charged $1500 for this? You are advocating charging innocent people for their stay in jail. And not only that, but more and more prisons are becoming privately owned, for-profit operations. The govt doesn't even get the profits, the owner of the prison/jail does.

lex, don't tell me that you think there are no speed traps. They exist nationwide.

And when you read that, did you get the part about charging you PRE-trial? Now pre-trial means that you are, at that point in time, innocent. And this is just another way to abuse the system.

No, it's not the worst thing in the world. But every unchallenged step towards total control is one more chain shackling freedom.

And before anyone thinks this will reduce the cost to taxpayers, think how much the billing and collection and all will cost. Also, saving taxpayers money was the reason that they stated over and over for taking "drug" money. But taxes never went down over that, police forces just got bigger. And there are a lot of instances of abuse on that idea.

Originally posted by forestlady

Lexion, under the new Patriot Act laws, you can be charged as an "enemy combatant" for anything the govt wants.

As a law-abiding citizen, I have no fear of being labelled an "enemy combatant".

HAS happened to U.S. citizens - that's how they filled up Gitmo, for example.

Really ? Any proof at ALL of this ?? That Gitmo is full of U.S. CITIZENS ??
Happy to see any PROOF of that statement. Heh.

You are advocating charging innocent people for their stay in jail

No, I'm not. The guilty should serve. And pay.

And not only that, but more and more prisons are becoming privately owned, for-profit operations. The govt doesn't even get the profits, the owner of the prison/jail does.

Called capitalism. More power to them.

On one hand, you denounce (well, attempt to) our system, then in the
second breath, denounce what made this country great.

Wow. Amazing.

Regards,
Lex

Originally posted by NGC2736

lex, don't tell me that you think there are no speed traps. They exist nationwide.

Really ? Proof ?

And when you read that, did you get the part about charging you PRE-trial?

Ahem, EVERYONE brought to trial is charged with something.
Charged does NOT equal convicted.

Where exactly does your understanding of law and language converge ?

I'd really like to embrace these fantasies, but I'm a realist.

And, in reality, they just don't hold .

Lex

lex, I fear you are being purposely obtuse or factitious. This is another chance , not a certainty, but a chance, for our government to abuse it's powers. As long as people like yourself applaud every action that has the potential for abuse, then our leadership will always remain the scum we've grown used to.

When you turn a blind eye to the very idea of speed traps, as if no such thing exists, then you aid the enemies of freedom and justice. When you declare that it is just to force a person to pay to be jailed, innocent or not, then you support tyranny.

Justice is a principle, not a rule. Justice is an ideal to be sought, not a speed bump on the highway to oblivion. Freedom is not found in what is not wrong, but in what is not right.

You, my friend, need to reflect on the fact that defending freedom is about deciding actions based on the maximum amount of damage that could result from inaction. It is always easier to keep an object from ever starting to move, than to stop it once in motion.

lex, In the law that was laid out there there is no mention of a need to convict. It just states that you will be charged per day for your stay. It makes no provision for being found guilty.

Originally posted by NGC2736

This is another chance , not a certainty, but a chance, for our government to abuse it's powers.

How ? How on this planet can making people taking up space in a place
paid for by others pay, be a bad thing ?

Renters do it all the time.

As long as people like yourself applaud every action that has the potential for abuse

Applaud ? Only when capitalism works. Is that such a bad thing ?

When you turn a blind eye to the very idea of speed traps, as if no such thing exists,

I've not had a ticket since I was 17 years old. Going the speed limit
has it's perks.

When you declare that it is just to force a person to pay to be jailed, innocent or not

When proven innocent, do they still have to pay ? I'm intrigued at the one-sided argument, being presented.

Freedom is not found in what is not wrong, but in what is not right.

You, my friend, need to reflect on the fact that defending freedom is about deciding actions based on the maximum amount of damage that could result from inaction. It is always easier to keep an object from ever starting to move, than to stop it once in motion.

My friend, I know exactly what you speak of. Even if you don't.

If you can show me what is not right about this, including what happens
to cases that are thrown out, I'll be quite surprised.

Lesson's to be learned :

Don't break the law.
a) Don't speed
b)don't break the law

Regards,
Lex

Originally posted by forestlady
...how would you like to be charged with something, stay in jail for 2 months, losing your good reputation, losing your job and possibly your home, and then be charged $1500 for this? You are advocating charging innocent people for their stay in jail....

Lexion, you still haven't answered my question. Your logic is astoundingly convoluted. Innocent people get arrested all the time. Most any statistic will say that at least 10% of the people on death row are innocent. It doesn't matter if you are law-abiding or not, it's happened to plenty of law-abiding, innocent citizens.

So, how would you like it if this happened to you?

Inmate Classification

All inmates at the Ada County Jail are classified using a specific system which is basically a risk assessment.

From Your Source

These aren't just some speeders or possible speeders.

These are CONVICTS. Convict. Add an "ed". Convicted.

You Sir are a hype specialist.

Regards,
Lex

I know they have been doing this in michigan for years now.And they said"crime doesnt pay"

Originally posted by forestlady

...how would you like to be charged with something, stay in jail for 2 months, losing your good reputation, losing your job and possibly your home, and then be charged $1500 for this? You are advocating charging innocent people for their stay in jail....

How on Earth can you even remotely accuse me of thinking this ?
Where, when and how did this happen ?

Court records will be of immense help.

Innocent people get arrested all the time.

Proof of this ?

Most any statistic will say that at least 10% of the people on death row are innocent.

Other than the anti death penalty people, any real facts to back this up ?

It doesn't matter if you are law-abiding or not, it's happened to plenty of law-abiding, innocent citizens.

So, how would you like it if this happened to you?

Ain't gonna happen. Why ask a rhetorical question ?

Lex

lex, what do you not see in my position. How can you be charged a cost before being found guilty?

And I stand corrected on the reading of that as past tense. Mia culpa.
I was not trying to sensationalize anything. I still find it wrong to charge a person for jailing them. Does that give a judge incentive to give a longer sentence?

When the government starts re-working the laws to make a profit out of crime, where can it lead, but to abuses. You are correct that this would apply to conviction only cases, and I mis-read the structure of it. Still, I can see where this would have the potential for abuse.

But in the interest of your being right I will end this thread, thrice repeating that I was in error.

Originally posted by NGC2736

I still find it wrong to charge a person for jailing them.

Ball is in your court. (pun not intended)
Find the cases that were dismissed. I'll wager that the people involved
don't have to pay.]

Still, I can see where this would have the potential for abuse.

Bro, EVERY system has a potential for abuse. I'm not blind, or stupid.

But in the interest of your being right

I never said I was "right". Just presented my points of view.

I will end this thread, thrice repeating that I was in error.

You Sir are a gentleman, and in my opinion a scholar.

I bow and tip my hat to you.

Thank you,
Lex

Originally posted by NGC2736
And I stand corrected on the reading of that as past tense. Mia culpa.
I was not trying to sensationalize anything. I still find it wrong to charge a person for jailing them. Does that give a judge incentive to give a longer sentence?

Aha! Well that explains alot. I couldn't access the link so I just read what NGC2736 had written. Never mind...

Originally posted by NGC2736
And I stand corrected on the reading of that as past tense. Mia culpa.
I was not trying to sensationalize anything. I still find it wrong to charge a person for jailing them. Does that give a judge incentive to give a longer sentence?

Aha! Well that explains alot. I couldn't access the link so I just read what NGC2736 had written. Never mind...

Yup, those camps are ready, you can go on infowars.com, and you can even find the purchase receipts for the camps and the trains...

Of course, itll never come to that. Im sure the dark Illuminati would love to throw us all in camps, as part of their New World Order, but I really dont see it being successful.