Geronimo's family asks Bush to help return Geronimo's skull

There'd been a rumor for many years that GW Bush's grandfather got into a lot of mean-spirited pranks. One of these pranks involved his getting together a group of Yale students, going out to the grave of Geronimo, and taking Geronimo's skull and thighbone to bring back to the Skull and Bones Society. I'd asked one of my anthropology teachers (who specializes in Native Americans) about this, and she scoffed.

But a recent find by a historian (who then contacted Geronimo's family) apparently confirms the old tale and now the Native Americans are asking for Geronimo's remains to be returned.
news.independent.co.uk...

[edit on 11-6-2007 by Byrd]

you got to be ......... me
I can't say what it is that you have got to be shi..... me on,
but I'm sure that you are ....ting me on something.

Oh but it's true so true. Now which section of the 2,400 ft. deep, Cheyenne Mountain underground facility is it currently resting in?

It's supposedly sitting in the Crypt or the Tomb (whatever they call their meeting place; Skull and Bones that is) as decoration or as a trophy.

I would think that if there is any real evidence of this, the Geronimo's (is that the family name?) should have no real problem filing a complaint and a judge issuing a search warrant.

Oh wait, it's rich white kids...

[edit on 6/12/2007 by whargoul]

The native Americans should ask all Europeans to go back to Europe ( especially British backt to England ) instead of just asking a bone.
Asking Jews go back to their god promise land Israel is far better.

Originally posted by whargoul
It's supposedly sitting in the Crypt or the Tomb (whatever they call their meeting place; Skull and Bones that is) as decoration or as a trophy.

That's what I'd read in other sources. Apparently it's used as part of the initiation ceremony.

I would think that if there is any real evidence of this, the Geronimo's (is that the family name?) should have no real problem filing a complaint and a judge issuing a search warrant.

You'd think, wouldn't you? In practice, it hasn't worked out that way. When the Apaches asked for the skull's return, they were shown a glass display case with what appeared to be the skull of a child:
www.yaleherald.com...

Now, the Apaches are very reluctant to speak of the dead... and this plays into why there wasn't a more aggressive pursuit of the matter. They asked, were shown something that was... not Geronimo. Rather than continue, they quit.

So, the Geronimo story was ranked as mostly rumor. His grave is at Ft. Sill, Oklahoma, and as you can see, it's not terribly convenient to dig it up to see what's going on:
www.findagrave.com...

Oh wait, it's rich white kids...

Yeah...and there's a lot of that, too, in the mix.

I think Cecil Adams of "The Straight Dope" did a good investigative job. At this point, it's hard to tell who done what to which... but there could be a permitted dig of the grave of Geronimo to see if it had been desecrated.

It'd have to have the approval of the Apache nation and to be done properly... and that's a whole 'nother can of worms.

Even worse then rich white kids, you have to look at who those rich white kids are, who their parents (grand parents, uncles etc.) are, and who they are destined to be. It must be really nice being from old money... But now we are verging into other conspiracies that probably deserve their own thread so I will beg off.

If it is true, thats quite a prank. They couldn't be more disrespectful than that. But, imo, Geronimo is not his bones, he is far more than that. He is unique in the whole wide world, and it may be that he will live on forever. Is there any other name that is spoken for the same reason, or in the same circumstances as his? Not that I know of. If one is about to jump from a plane, or do any life-threatening activity, they shout 'Geronimo!!'
That is a testament to the man. He is a hero. Brave, wise, and revered.
What is the name of the man who arrested him? Don't know? That says it all.

What ever became of this issue? Did the ancestors of Jeromino just cave? I believed it when I read about the skull being kept in the skull and bones common room or where ever of the Yale Frat house.

Interesting that what seems to be a myth is still regarded as base on truth.

I imagine that whomever holds the truth skull of Geronimo will never give it back because that will be admitting that something was done wrongly.

This issue will remind one of the biggest mystery in history that will only be truth by the ones involved.

Creating more closeness among chosen elite.

The issue still stands where it once stood, I'm afriad. The honorable thing to do would be to hand over the skull (even if it isn't Geronimo's) to the tribe and let them bury it.

Access to skulls wasn't that unusual. It is now, but in the early 1900's and before, medical schools would pay handsomely for skeletons and specemins, and there were professional graverobbers who were always willing to turn up a few bodies and skeletons for medical people who were not so ethical about where parts for their lab came from.

Hi
old thread but....Ive meet a guy named Geronimo recently been hanging out with, my son asked about the name so I told him about this great chief ,one thing that really stood out on his bio was his special ability's this man had.
Here is Bio
en.wikipedia.org...
I like the part of his telekinesis and telephathy skills.

reply to post by teraform


I hope they got the bones back Byrd?
What a disgrace. Just this week Ned Kelly's family have asked for his bones back, his skull is on display at the OLD Melbourne Jail as a paper weight (the jailer used for that back in the day) its a tourist attraction.

There were a few Indigenous Australians whose bones were put on display in the UK as a 'lesser species' display originally and they managed to keep them there up til recently. This is a serious TABOO. Their present day anscestors have worked tirelessly for their return, to contunue the aboriginal story (dreamtime is endless).

[edit on 7-5-2009 by zazzafrazz]

That head is staying where it is, right next to the head of Pancho Villa.
In fact, I predict there will soon be a third head added to the S&B collection, that of Osama Bin Laden.
That's if he isn't already there.
One thing they all have in common, all three evaded US capture for many, many years.

Geronimo's Kind sue Skull and Bones MSNBC.COM

HARTFORD, Connecticut - Geronimo's descendants have sued Skull and Bones — the secret society at Yale University linked to presidents and other powerful figures — claiming that its members stole the remains of the legendary Apache leader decades ago and have kept them ever since.

The federal lawsuit filed in Washington on Tuesday — the 100th anniversary of Geronimo's death — also names the university and the federal government. Geronimo's great-grandson Harlyn Geronimo said his family believes Skull and Bones members took some of the remains in 1918 from a burial plot in Fort Sill, Okla., to keep in its New Haven clubhouse, a crypt.

The alleged graverobbing is a longstanding legend that gained some validity in recent years with the discovery of a letter from a club member that described the theft.

The Suit also names Barack Obama and Defense Secretary Robert Gates as the two main officials of the Government who are responsible for protecting the Indian legend's grave and remains since he was killed while in U.S. Military custody.

I don't know how the Law Suit is coming along, I don't know if it's a true story either, but my own infrequent but occasional interactions with this social class of people leads me to believe this would be something that they would do if doable for kicks.

The Walker side of the Family really had all the money, and the Bush family was not all that wealthy or influential until Prescott's Dad got a break in the early 1900's after being named as the CEO of the Rockefeller Corporation.

He was able to get Prescott into Yale the first of many generations to come and Prescott was highly ambitious and might have been very anxious to make his bones with the bones. If his name was Scott Perterson instead of Prescott Bush, Nancy Grace would have had CNN and some California Court dig up Prescott's bones by now, have put him on trial, and scheduled his bones for execution on the mere circumstantial evidence alone.

HARTFORD, Conn. - A Yale University historian has uncovered a 1918 letter that seems to lend validity to the lore that Yale University’s ultra-secret Skull and Bones society swiped the skull of American Indian leader Geronimo.

The letter, written by one member of Skull and Bones to another, purports that the skull and some of the Indian leader’s remains were spirited from his burial plot in Fort Sill, Okla., to a stone tomb in New Haven that serves as the club’s headquarters.

According to Skull and Bones legend, members — including President Bush’s grandfather, Prescott Bush — dug up Geronimo’s grave when a group of Army volunteers from Yale were stationed at the fort during World War I. Geronimo died in 1909.

“The skull of the worthy Geronimo the Terrible, exhumed from its tomb at Fort Sill by your club ... is now safe inside the (Tomb) together with his well worn femurs, bit & saddle horn,” according to the letter, written by Winter Mead.

Skeptics always abound though!

Skepticism

But Mead was not at Fort Sill and researcher Marc Wortman, who found the letter last fall, said Monday he is skeptical the bones are actually those of the famed Indian fighter. “What I think we could probably say is they removed some skull and bones and other materials from a grave at Fort Sill,” he said. “Historically, it may be impossible to prove it’s Geronimo’s. They believe it’s from Geronimo.”

Skull and Bones is run by the Russell Trust, which also oversees Mark Hopkins Medical School University and Hospital outside of Washington D.C.

The Chairman of the Russell Trust sits on the Board of Directors of Citi-Group.

I think there is a good chance the tax payers could find a spare 25 Billion of their money sitting around in the Crypt too!

Oh the things rich kids will do in turning to crime just to get a little excitement in another wise dull and guaranteed existence of wealth and privelage.

reply to post by Byrd


Obviously these are people without honor or they would not have descrated the grave of an American legend. The skull and bones soceity has no honor or it would not have perpetrated this crime. This group has no intention of ever becoming honorable people or they would return the body parts and buy a pirate flag.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Proto P T, thanks for this good update, I'd say they did nick them....maniacs. I'd go by the letter rather than the skeptics.
They should be returned, what a bunch of silly ninnies desecrating graves, too much money, and no cents/sense!

[edit on 8-5-2009 by zazzafrazz]

Originally posted by zazzafrazz
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Proto P T, thanks for this good update, I'd say they did nick them....maniacs. I'd go by the letter rather than the skeptics.
They should be returned, what a bunch of silly ninnies desecrating graves, too much money, and no cents/sense!

[edit on 8-5-2009 by zazzafrazz]

It sure is highly suspiscious. On one hand these people love the ruse of deception, so it does strike the age old question of most kabals, are they deceiving one another or are they deceiving everyone else.

I would love to see how the case turns out because unless the Skull & Bones turns over the Bones voluntarily ultimately it might come down to a search warrant for the Bones Crypt which would be an amazing occurrence. If the Bones voluntarily turn over another set of bones that turns out not to be Geronimos upon testing, and the Crypt wasn't searched, you would still always have that suspiscion that they still might be retaining them.

You are right, grave robbing is a dirty business! I hope they all wore gloves and boots...and that the Great Spirit in the Sky doesn't have them all strapped between a couple of eternal Birch trees right now!

I sure would like to think this could no longer happen today.

Thanks my friend.