Carrying identification around at all times

Originally posted by elevatedone
How old are you? (don't answer if you don't want to)

I'm 18.

Originally posted by elevatedone
If you are over 18, do you still look like minor?

Some say I look young for my age, but in my opinion, the whole age discrimination issue opens a whole new can of worms.

Originally posted by elevatedone
What was the area like that you were hanging out at?
Is /was it known for illegal activity in the past?

I was in the nicer area of town. There is not a lot of illegal activity in the area...it's known to be a very safe and quiet place.

Originally posted by elevatedone
In your own words you state, that you were not doing anything illegal, "in your opinion", exactly what were you doing?

Well, the first time I was walking through the park towards some Mexican restaurant. The second time I was talking on the phone in front of the Capital building...paranoia much?

Originally posted by elevatedone
Just cooperate with the police.

To me this seems to be what has sent America down the path of decline; people letting the government do whatever they want. Some one has to stand up for what's right.

Im sure we all remember the UCLA student tasered for not showing his student ID. Welcome to the socialist police state of the North American Union, a subsidiary of the NWO.

That video was the sickest thing I've seen in a while. If I didn't know it was just a microcosm of what's going on all around the country, I'd be inclined to shrug it off as nothing more than an isolated event.

I really feel as if we're almost to the point of an actual, verifiable police state. Problem is, very few people realize how little rights they actually have left, if any. The breaking point is near.

The US Supreme Court.......... 1= you cannot run away from an officer and 2= you must give your name.........AND THAT'S ALL.

They didn't say anything about you having to show a physical ID.

Let us be clear: There is NO LAW valid in ANY state that mandates a criminal penalty for failure to possess identification. No one can show any state law that demands ID.. The Supreme Court decided in a case a few years ago that a person CAN be arrested for REFUSING TO IDENTIFY himself to a cop that had PROBABLE CAUSE already to suspect he might be worthy of investigation.

There is a big difference between demanding that a person possess ID..and refusing to identify ones self : You can verbally tell a cop your name and that WILL suffice legally. They may bitch and moan and lie..par for the course, but they can run a computer check and if they have NO FURTHER PROBABLE CAUSE to believe that a crime has been, is being, or is about to be committed, then you cannot be detained or arrested for merely not having certain pieces of paper on your person. The cop would have to have evidence that you were lying about your information ; you are under NO OBLIGATION to prove who you are..they must prove otherwise or let you go.

Of course, if one is driving, laws that mandate presenting a valid license to an officer upon request is legal. But walking down a street, or in any other public place, with the one exception of airports and other high risk places where you go voluntarily , without ID is NOT illegal. But if asked you must identify yourself to an officer IF he has reasonable grounds to stop you in the first place. A cop can NEVER legitimately stop a person in public, short of a clear emergency , only to request ID . If conducting aa valid investigation, then they may ask. But not just because they want to.

The best bet for anyone is to always give your name and address to an inquiring cop, unless it is totally unjustifiable, and cooperate to that degree. You do NOT under any circumstance have to tell a cop where you are going, where you have been, who you know, etc. They have NO RIGHT to expect anything from a citizen except for name and address if asked. Period. If you say anything else you open yourself up for a multitude of cons and set up's and improper questions that if answered ' wrongly ' by you, could result in charges and anything you say, except for your name and address, CAN and WILL be used against you..so SHUT UP when confronted by cops, except for the above exception, and stand your ground. If falsely arrested raise hell ( with an attorney ) and never ever make a confession, statement or other comment to cops,. other than who you are and where you live.

Also, the cops have NO RIGHT to ask or tell you to empty your pockets; it is voluntary on your part if you do so. They do that because they lack probable cause to go into your pockets themselves. A cop cannot go into your pockets unless you are under arrest, or if he does a ' Terry ' search..a pat down of the OUTER clothing. If a HARD object, like a knife or gun, is not felt then the cop cannot legally go in your pockets..or tell you to turn them out. Just say NO. Refuse ALL searches. NEVER EVER EVER give the cops consent to search...ever. Your person or your vehicle or home. It NEVER helps to do so.

The cops lie and bluster and threaten to bring dogs, etc. It is all a game to get you to give consent. Without it, they have a hard job getting past a defense attorney and will likely lose and be embarrassed in court.

Never make an exception to this and you will be glad you did if you have your Constitutional rights violated ; it happens thousands of times a day in this country and so it is NOT a far out scenario. Say nothing unnecessary and use the rights so many patriots have shed blood for. We dishonor the fallen when we throw our precious rights away by being intimidated by lying, devious, scheming cops who care nothing about your rights and who use any trick in the book to screw you...be prepared and beat the cops at their own dirty game. Give them the minimum and shut up. That is sound advice..ask any attorney. Good luck

Just got off the phone with a cop I know.

He referenced the Terry vs Ohio case.

Very informative.

You do NOT have to carry I.D. You do NOT have to give information.

I was enlightened.

Thanks for keeping this thread rolling.

Lex

Originally posted by eyewitness86
We dishonor the fallen when we throw our precious rights away by being intimidated by lying, devious, scheming cops who care nothing about your rights and who use any trick in the book to screw you...be prepared and beat the cops at their own dirty game. Give them the minimum and shut up.

Excellent advice and an excellent post.

That altered my perspective on the issue in fact. I think people often feel like the cops have the right to do basically anything they want, but they do not, and should be aware themselves that they are not above the law. Thank you very much.

Originally posted by Lexion
Just got off the phone with a cop I know.

Thanks for that effort!

We are moving into a state of martial law, and everything that has happened the last couple of years is to condition us into a state of certain things being normal...such as with the E.T. movie to the meteor hitting the earth movies like Armageddon, its to condition you into understanding and being comfortable with things that may happen in the future.

Iceofspades: You are very welcome. I was glad to be of help. You are so right that many people, most in fact, assume that because a cop acts authoritatively and makes demands that they have some right to do so; in fact the cops have NO rights to anything from a citizen except as discussed above. Cops use bluff and body language like poker players do; most cops are great liars because they do it all day when telling us what we can and cannot do.

The Courts have ruled, sadly, that if a citizen is not aware of their rights, then the cops are under NO obligation to advise them of the truth , and may in fact LIE to us. If we believe it, then we voluntarily give up our rights. Citizens MUST KNOW what the truth is about the law and no cop is going to tell them ; their interests lie far afield from those of the citizen and each of us MUST educate ourselves or be in jeopardy of losing what little protection we now have. Just say NO to the Cops !! Give them the legal minimum and nothing else; you will be glad you did.


I know a bit about the issue: I was raised in a cop family, my Dad and uncles and cousins were all cops. I basically grew up hanging around a police station when a kid. I have ridden with them, seen them in all situations, from their viewpoint. I also worked in security and as a firearms instructor, bodyguard and security consultant in Miami, Florida during the 70's and 80's and believe me I know both sides of the issue.

I have seen it all. It was not until I perceived the real threat from unbridaled police power that I began taking my rights seriously. Most cops these days are radically different from those in my Dad's era..back then cops did not make people lay on hot streets face down..they just turned them around and handcuffed them and put them in a car..all alone !!

They did not wear ski masks to hide their identity, as they knew that they were beholden to the law that they enforced. They did not look for every excuse and loophole in the law to intimidate and search and dominate average citizens; they actually believed that they WORKED for the PEOPLE and not the agency that gave them a check..those were the good old days of liberty, when one assumed on the side of the People and the Constitution.

Now we assume that we are helpless and at the mercy of anyone with a gun and a badge who acts tough and makes demands. Our kids are taught from the earliest age to comply and submit and obey when the cops speak...and it will be our downfall if we do not reverse this garbage and make sure that EVERY citizen in the USA KNOWS his or her rights and how to use them in everyday siruations to insure that they are never lost due to neglect or ignorance.

THAT is what should be taught in schools.
In the old days they did not rely on Tasers and Mace short of shooting someone..a nightstick or slapjack applied judiciously works wonders on those who fight cops ; that is IF the cop has cojones enough to just get the job done without 10 back up buddies and a few dogs and armor before making a move. I can recall several nights when Dad would come home with a torn uniform and bruises from fighting some drunk or whatever; he never took it personally, just part of the job. He never inflicted ' punishment ' on a prisoner and used MINIMUM force always...because it was the RIGHT THING TO DO, real men do not abuse the helpless and use unnecessary force

.But we are seeing the move to a military/police conglomeration ; there will be no real difference in the future and that is a goal of the powers that be, of course. Do your part to stop it now!! Use your rights or lose them !!

Originally posted by eyewitness86
Let us be clear: There is NO LAW valid in ANY state that mandates a criminal penalty for failure to possess identification. No one can show any state law that demands ID.. The Supreme Court decided in a case a few years ago that a person CAN be arrested for REFUSING TO IDENTIFY himself to a cop that had PROBABLE CAUSE already to suspect he might be worthy of investigation.

Yes I agree, and if anyone can find these laws please feel free to post a link and prove me wrong.

Acesinthe hole,
Ask and ye shall recieve.

Supreme Court Ruling

It's a PDF file, just so you know.

Enjoy,
Lex

Originally posted by Lexion
Acesinthe hole,
Ask and ye shall recieve.

Supreme Court Ruling

It's a PDF file, just so you know.

Enjoy,
Lex

These are about refusal to identify yourself, I'm talking about just not having an ID on your person. If you identify yourself and the cop has no suspicion that you are lying having no ID on you while you walk down the street is not a crime.

It's not manditory to get a drivers license or a state ID card. So I'm still failing to see how it's manditory to have them on you at all times.

I'm not a fan of the terry stop either, I'm sure the police get away with more then they should during these.

Aces,
My Lord you're making me work ! I love it.

Anyway, after MUCH searching, I found this :

The statutory language does not require written proof of identification

From Here

Another PDF file.

Although I've not found a law stating ID isn't required to be carried (outside of driving, voting and things like that), I've found no law
stating that it IS required to be carried, in a situation such as the OP
describes.

If you want, I'll keep searching.

Regards,
Lex

Originally posted by ViolatoR
I remember they started doing this in Miami a few years ago. They stopped a whole bus and searched everyone for their "papers." One woman didnt have her ID on her and she was arrested I believe.

Several court cases have been focused on this subject. In one the person demanded to see the law which said he had to have identification on him at all times and the judge said that the law was secret and that he (the judge) had seen the law and knows it really exists, but regular citizens arnt allowed to see it. Reminds me of the non-existant income tax laws. Pretty scary stuff.

Im sure we all remember the UCLA student tasered for not showing his student ID. Welcome to the socialist police state of the North American Union, a subsidiary of the NWO.

Hmmm...doesn't sound very 'socialist' to me. More like 'totalitarian'. This whole 'War On Terror' thing has become an excuse all over the western world to clamp down on civil liberties. It's the excuse they've been looking for for many decades...

'War Is Peace'

Jimbo999

Originally posted by ViolatoR

In one the person demanded to see the law which said he had to have identification on him at all times and the judge said that the law was secret and that he (the judge) had seen the law and knows it really exists, but regular citizens arnt allowed to see it.

I missed this, and I'm sorry. Break out the wet noodles.

Anyway, do you have any specifics on this case ?

Approx. dates, the county it happened in, names of persons involved ?

If not, then it becomes a non-issue.

If so, I'll be MORE than happy to look into it.

Regards,
Lex

Do not waste your time...SECRET LAWS? Nonsense. Not even valid enough to be an urban legend. It is an oxymoron: a SECRET law? Just how would the Judge apply a law not on the books? Would a defense attorney accept that a law is not on the books? How much time is a person given under the secret law? That's a secret too!! And all of the paperwork would just say " SECRET ", right? The jailers and appeals courts would just say " OK, another secret law case...put him in a cell and when the secret parole board decides that the secret sentence is enough, could issue a secret decision releasing the prisoner..of course to a secret halfway house for a while...

Sometimes I think some people will believe anything, no matter how foolish or ridiculous. A citizen CANNOT be held accountable for an unpublished law ; how would a person know they were violating the law if no one knew it was a law? There are NO SECRET LAWS. There are secret courts for high security issues, but they act on real and published laws. These foolish legends abound but no one can reference them or provide a link to them because they do not exist... " my uncles cousin told my barber that he heard that a judge somewhere told a guy.....", but you can believe this !!