And if Ron Paul Loses...

You should always vote your conscience. that way, you'll actually know what YOU think about the most important issues of our day. I've got my niche and I pretty much stick to the Federal conspiracy thing, but one thing holds true to all the sujets that are covered here on ATS. Truth matters, even when it is inconvenient or if it forces you to change your mind.

You can kill a person, but you can't kill an idea. when you speak rationally and thoughfuly about somebody else's idea, you breath new life in to it. In your own way, you extend the life of that idea. If all else fails, remember that what you say now in whatever form you say it, might be useful to somebody else later on. Who knows? Somebody that you never will meet could some day extend the life of YOUR ideas.

Vekar, while what you say is correct, and I agree 100%, it is not enough. To vote is not just our right, it is our duty as citizens. It is our obligation. I would like to see the driving privileges tied to voting so that those who miss a year of voting could not get their license renewed till a year of voting. Would that get America off it's collective ass-ets?

And beyond even voting, if you don't work to get the government you want, then it's your own fault America is screwed up. If nothing else, talk to people about the issues, about candidates, about voting.

These things are part of your job as a citizen.

And JO, if you keep talking like this people are going to start calling you an idealist.

Heh, well there are silent idealists who wait on the correct time and place then the ones who run around in the open before the time is right. I am the first not the second, both have their merits, advantages and also disadvantages. Both are actually key in society.

At any rate, we still have the problem in the world that you can kill someone (in certain societies) and scare others into following. It would be kind of like taking a protest leader out of the crowd of anti-war protesters and blowing their brains out in front of the rest and asking: "Any questions?" And if anyone rioted just throw a grenade and kill about 50 people. Fear is a VERY effective weapon, Hitler used it, the USA uses, shoot, just about every politician out there uses fear one way or another to get what they want be it noble or illegal, immoral and unethical. Fear though takes the proper time and place for the proper effect to be created, otherwise it could blow up in your face. Hitler is an example of proper fear use for political gain. I say proper because using fear to gain power is never right.

Voting though is a way of (like I said) being able to say: "Dont look at me I voted for the other guy/gal." And is still critical at this point. However someone else on ATS had a tag that was very true:
"It is too late to change things within the system, yet too early to shoot the bastards."

Originally posted by NGC2736
And JO, if you keep talking like this people are going to start calling you an idealist.

I am an idealist. I'm just a pragmatic idealist. As a dark master of American politics, I recognize what's happening for what it is. There is a time and a place to stand on civic duty, principle, and virtue--no matter what it costs. There is also a time and place to stay in the shadows and form your own conspiracy.

They serve us, or really WILL serve them. They'll see to that.

[edit on 10-6-2007 by Justin Oldham]

Ron Paul may be our only hope. What about the other libertarian candidate? He may not receive the Republican nomination as the party itself is full of conservatives that do not wish to see a freethinker be President.

It is much easier to vote for someone you understand and agree with 100% of the time. While I agree with pretty much everything the man says, I can understand why people have such a tough time identifying with him.

Unfortunately, due to where he comes from (Texas) he may not receive much support from the Northeast. We do not have a whole lot of positive viewpoints towards people from the South, Texas especially.

That is not to say the area is full of rednecks or unintelligent people, merely I am stating it is a stereotype most have here (actually I moved to AZ so I'm not technically there anymore, but you get my drift).

I really do hope to God he is elected. When he does though, will he be able to change much? The corrupt Bush Administration has changed the way our government works due to power politics and a handful of people in their pocket. Previous administrations have setup a situation that allowed him to seize power in such a way.

Ron does not have such pageantries. He is pretty much all alone in the government. There are not many who wish the truth to be seen. Even when whistleblowers show up, they are instantly ridiculed and possibly even murdered.

This is how I fear he may end up and of course his VP may not be a viable truth candidate either.

Only time will tell...We do have God on our side, but this does not change the way some people in this world wish things should be. We can stop them, but this involves uniting as one. Are we ready for that?

Let's just hope the UN "peacekeeping" force doesn't decide to come in if we start riots in the US because of voter fraud.

JO, I'm just glad you quit working for their side.

We all fight as we can. We all pick our battles. We all win or loose. No man can expect more of life than to have a family and a cause, both worth dying for.

Originally posted by NGC2736
We all fight as we can. We all pick our battles. We all win or loose. No man can expect more of life than to have a family and a cause, both worth dying for.

You are oh-so-right. I never saw this coming. If you had told me that I'd be on this life path with several books in the offing, I would not have believed you. ATS? I don't think so. Wouldn't have believed that, either. And yet, "the moment" happened. And, here I am.

We fight as we must, as we can.

what do you say to a person when they say something like this....they cannot see that our foreign policy is the reason for 911.....



"My take on Paul was initially pretty favorable. Once he crossed the line and said we were to blame for 9/11 though, that was it. "


as for what happens if ron doesnt win.....i think the revolution will begin..if it doesnt happen before the elections.

has ron paul been to a bilderberg meeting? or has hillary clinton?
the one that has..will be your next president...t.blair will be leaving office at the end of this month..and his heir apparrent g.brown.has been to a bilderberg meeting..

cheers from the uk

Alright folks let me be straightforward and to the point on what (not going to say WILL because this may or may not happen exactly) could happen if Ron Pauls IS or is NOT elected:

RP IS elected: We have room for a few things here, now we would face things getting a WHOLE lot worse pending on what happens when he tries to pass things and then we have the Senate and Congress problem. This part is iffy, so on to one that is more probable: Wipeout. Wipeout! RP goes in and gets wiped out on the spot, then someone takes the blame as a skapegoat and the next VP or whoever is in charge gung-hoes us into a police state and martial law is declared. This is done to protect the elites interests. Now for the last, RP goes in, things change for the better over time but this WILL be an uphill battle since the Senate and Congress are whores to whoever has money. Sad fact folks.

Now lets go on to my personal favorite, which I can go into more: RP is NOT elected. Now by this he could be shoved out by fraud, etc. Whatever you wish to use insert -HERE- for the reason he does not win. So what happens? Simple, we have Hillary or some other nutjob from the GOP who throws us even further into the abyss. From here the nation deteriorates, even more jobs are lost, more wars could start, or worse. Or worse? Yes worse: police state and martial law are put into full swing. At this point we of the truth community can stand up and say: "We told you so." Before we duck as the bullets let fly in our direction, then we head for the hills. Now an alternative to this is RP is not elected and things simply keep going at the same rate they are going now, enough to keep people angry, yet not enough to cause rebelion YET!
So what happens if they "remove" RP? Well then we could face revolution, maybe. If enough people are upset about this it will only add fuel to our fire so we can turn it into a bonfire and start torching politicians or as they did before the FIRST revolution: Tar and feathering.
Continuing through on this point they could very well have a quick election, make it look like X person won and before anyone can challange it they have a "terrorist" attack happen SOMEWHERE in the USA. This will cause a ruckus for a month or so, plenty of time for them to roll out the gulag and get the ball rolling at full steam. By the time people realize they have been had and RP was the true winner it is too late. Now in the same sentence they may have him assassinated during this chaotic time or just have him "dissapear" so he will not hinder them later on. From here we move into a total police state and martial law abounds, in cities mainly. For those who talk about foreign troops, well if they exist then you will find them at this point controlling the cities. A simple "shoot first, ask questions later" policy will be used here. That or we face UN forces moving in to "keep the peace" since US forces are overseas, and the police are "strained" because of "violence" that is occuring across the nation. A simple lock down on the internet, and the media playing the right story here or there on TV will help solidify this. Meanwhile papers will only cover local news as usual and then on the front page have the "why you should be scared and just accept the new Orwellian government" stamped on the front page for the next month. Along with who you should hate and want to kill...
Things can easily develop for the worst, that is obviouse, yet what should make anyone worry more than RP LOSING is what if he WINS?! If he WINS then SOMETHING is up. That is a fact, like I said earlier, they would not go this far and then just give up. So if he wins we will be facing something unexpected and possibly very deadly. That or we might wind up with RP turning out to be THE posterboy for the NWO and all this time he had us all fooled. Sad, but a fact of what COULD happen.
Remember, anything is possible at this point, anything. Right now we need to be poised to jump out the nearest window if things go for the worst yet also be ready to buckle down and back him up if he IS the real deal in the end. Only time will tell on this part.
For anyone who has good intuition here I suggest you follow it during the 2008 elections, because it could be key in this. If you get a horrible fealing, get out, get out NOW. Head for the hills, even if it turns out for nothing in the end, at least you were ready.

For those of us who think this is going to lead to another revolution I suggest you stock up on ammo in the following months, your going to need it. Badly.

As Napoleon said: "The hour of victory is the most dangerous time of all."
True, because anything could happen, never get overconfident or cocky. That will be our downfall, that and being overeager in the battles ahead of us if things get worse.

Just so you all know: I think things are going to get a WHOLE lot worse, RP or not, its going to keep sinking because we are already in over our heads. We are slowly drowning, but we have a choice: sink or swim.

I remember talking to a kid when I was in high school who wanted to be a SWAT, I promptly asked him why and later before I left I told him this:
"Just remember Daniel, the person they tell you to shoot may be your ally, not the enemy they would have you believe, at this day in age, and in this country with the way things are, remember that. You might just find yourself on the wrong side of the line, so be carefull about what orders you follow in the following years, you might just be trying to kill your best friend, your best ally, the nations last hope."
At this point be was rather taken back, then he said "yeah I know" but I doubt he knew what I was saying. I only hope is sinks in if indeed he became a SWAT guy or went into some form of government work along those lines.

Now why did I bring that up? Because it applies to all of us, every last one of us. Be very careful about who you think your enemies are, because they might just be your ally. Be careful about who you want to fight, and make sure you never jump the gun, or else your risk making more enemies than allies. In this comming battle allies are everything, not enemies, we only have one true enemy, the NWO/elites. Try not to shoot each other over petty differences, do not divide yourselves because of petty squables, unite or fall. Those are your two options, and they always will be, nothing will change that.
As someone else said when commenting about the military when looking at the armies recruiting poster: "An army of one, dies as one."

You can break one twig with eage, but can you break a hundred twigs all at once? No. Why? They back each other up and make the others stronger by decreasing the energy used to break them.

The choice to fight is yours and no one elses, the choice to back down is yours and no one elses. Only you can make the final decision, no one else. No one can force you to do anything. Life just might give some of us here an opportunity to do something great, or evil, what you do with that opportunity is up to you. Yet you will only get one. There are no second chances in this battle, no divine intervention, no spirits to aid us or gods/goddess's to save us. Just each other.

ron paul is obviously the best and only real choice. the rest are all just puppets waiting to stroke the nwo.

ron paul is akin to john f kennedy, lincoln, or reagan. if by some miracle they allow him to win by popular vote, they will just attempt to kill him anyway, or make his policies un-enforceable in congress.

i love it how people say last hope. the country has been f**ked for quite some time people.

the point of the matter is, another puppet who was predetermined to be compatible with the globalist plans will be inserted. it might as well be bush all over again. the same results, destruction of civil liberty, and fast-paced deterioration of our country will ensue.

ron paul is the best chance we have, but he will never get elected. they have already tried and failed to remove him from the republican party. it is a matter of time before they eliminate him somehow.

even though id love to see him win. it would make everyone alot happier and move our country to better times.

the real problem however is that its past the point of no return. remember vote rigging, and electronic ballots? guess what! they still havent, and wont have the electronic machines removed by '08. this means it will be another rigjob. just like gore, we will realize the true winner but be able to do nothing about it.

the only REAL hope is that a network is forming in this country somewhere that will combat the nwo when it destroys our economy and floods our streets with armed international peacekeepers.

Well, now. From the u2 traffic, I think a nerv has been touched. I'm directing all those people who wrote to me to look here for a combined response.

I am not the only person to suggest that the next President will be a Democrat who builds on what Bush43 has done. You see some posts right here that make the same guess. I'm not so sure the revolution will start as predicted, but I do think we'll be on the road toward that. Please let me explain.

There is a certain momentum in government today that will carry us 'forward' in to the troubled times that many of you predict. I've called it an overall trend in government that values centralized power. I don't think that just one reformer President could put the brakes on to this behemoth. it would take several Presidents of like minded civics to have any hope of doing that.

I'm still of the opinion that things will have to get worse before they get better. That'll mean an economic downturn, and a very agressive President. I don't think there will be any one single spark that starts a revolt in this country. It'll be a cascade effect of several events and social movements. We can hope that the words and writings of people that you value like Ron Paul will be used in the debate that will precede those difficult days.

It's true that we get the government that we deserve. It's also true that those of us whopost here make up the smallest of the small minority who will speak up before things go too far. Long before any of you make the decision to become militant, you'll be called on to sharpen your verbal and written skills so that you can make your case as powerfully as possible without resorting to violence. Ballots before bullets, always.

The greatest conspiracy of our time would be this trend in powerful government growth. If you want real, this is it. To win hearts and minds, you'll need to point the lights of truth and logic at a wide range of legal problems and social issues. I don't think any of us can really know just how 'big' this debate really us, but we can go in to it knowing that we will each speak to our own areas of professional expertise and life experience. We'll speak up when we can, as we can.

In the end, I don't think we'll be in a position to do anything until "they" break the machinery government and jump off the Ship of State like the rats they are. I'd like to be wrong, and I'm hoping that some of you will be pursuasive enough to grant me that luxury. Until then, let's focux on what we're doing, and how we're doing it. Pass on what you've learned.

Sorry, double post my bad fellas.

[edit on 10-6-2007 by biggie smalls]

The problem with electing Ron Paul is not his politics. The main problem is he is moving against many with vested interest in the government and corporations.

There are many who do not wish him to succeed. They have let him so far perhaps to show him be crushed at a later date. I really hope this is not the case.

The other Presidential candidates are already bought and paid for. Perhaps that is why he is still around. The powers that be see that he is not afraid and maybe want him to succeed?

This is actually quite an interesting subject.



I am willing to bet that some of the "higher ups" wish him to be elected so the truth can finally be known (at least parts of it). I would not be surprised if a majority of those in the know want to release their responsibilities...

Anyone with an opinion on the subject?




Wait a minute!

Isn't the Republican party platform based on small government and less taxes? How have they been behaving this past century?

I would argue that the party in Washington are not in fact Republicans or Conservatives, but socialists in disguise.

I openly ask for some discourse in this area.

Wake up people, the politicians don't give a damn about the common person. They are there for special interest groups and cash money.

Ron Paul is discussing medicare and healthcare on C-SPAN right now! Tune in to see his opinion (was recorded on Tuesday). He is preparing for the New Hampshire primary and needs all the support he can get.

Mr. Oldham, your ideas have a lot of merit, and frankly, I can see it happening right in front of us. But what makes you believe that things are happening as quickly as you say? What was it, police state by 2014? From what I can see (which isn't much), what we have now is the result of a steadily growing central government and the desire to use positive action to "fix" everything. What would cause such a sudden change in the near future?

Ron Paul could get 100% of the votes and still lose; he will not be allowed to win. Even if we do manage to somehow get him to win the Republican candidacy and elect him President, if he doesn't listen to the elites he will be assassinated(either politically like Clinton or biologically like Kennedy).

A friendly bet, President = McCain, Vice President = Lieberman. Most Americans are cattle and will be herded in one particular direction; even though we know Bush stole both elections we are powerless to do anything about. It will be the same thing with this election, a ton of good judges were fired and replaced with pro Republican/Bush judges. They are planning on killing 4.5 million votes with the help of these judges through caging and other illegal techniques to ensure Republicans win.

Emails and attachments have been released proving that caging was used in the last election, I even have them on my computer but the press is totally silent. Caging is a felony and these criminals have gotten away with their crimes. While the rest of the world reports this news most Americans are left clueless.

Ron Paul will win the NH Primary, and it will give him an early boost. The only way Ron Paul can win the Republican nomination though is to convince the currently "neo-conned" party that the majority of Americans are against the war, and the only chance the republican party has to win is to back Ron Paul, thereby making Hillary the pro-war candidate and the democrat party the pro-war party.

If Ron Paul can not cut through the fog and haze of neo-conservative brainwashing that infects the republican party via MSM, and we don't register as republicans and vote in the primaries and caucuses, then he won't win the nomination.

Ron Paul has said he would not run as an independent. Many say that he said "independent or 3rd party", but if they are talking about when Allan Colmes asked him after the 2nd debate, then no, he only said he wouldn't run as an independent, and then Sean Hannity jumped in.

To those that think he might jump ship and go to the Libertarian Party, he won't, and here's why. The LP believes in totally open borders, no restrictions on immigration, illegal or otherwise, let the flood of people come in if they want to, on "moral grounds". They will not change their position. Ron Paul is for securing the borders, and America is extremely pissed off about this issue, and rose up by inundating the phones, faxes, and e-mails of Congress to vote against the "shamnesty" bill, which got defeated on Thursday.

The LP CAN NOT win an election based on their view on immigration, period! That is just simple fact, Americans don't want wide open borders with no restrictions at all. That is probably why they are not the 3rd largest party and the Constitution Party is.

I believe that Ron Paul will continue to use the debates to propel him onto the national stage, and then at that point he can make no more gains within the current system which is biased against him, he will seek the nomination of the Constitution Party and run on their ticket. He is the defender of the Constitution, and before this election plays out, the Constitution will all of a sudden jump to the forefront as Bush declares Martial Law before the election. I think he may try to hold on to power.

It's going to get ugly, and people will start to wake up once the government moves in on Ed and Elaine Brown in NH and kills them. If they do that while Ron Paul is still in the debates, he will lash out during the debates against the governments actions.

Oh yeah, this is about if he doesn't win.

If Ron Paul does not win then enjoy reciting your new Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag of the North American Union in franco-spanglish, and report to Homeland Security for your new VeriChip, for your own protection of course! When the new State Security Forces (20 official states militias now operating under NORTHCOM) come down your street to load you on the bus to the FEMA camp, don't call them "Gestapo", they might get mad and shoot you.

Or,

Get guns. Lots and lots of ammo. Canned food and freeze dried food. Camping/fishing gear. Medical supplies. Don't stay living in the cities. Move out away from the coasts into the interior of the country and join up with other patriots as we fight against the NWO/NAU and National Socialism in America.

Any questions?

Originally posted by Johnmike
Mr. Oldham, your ideas have a lot of merit, and frankly, I can see it happening right in front of us. But what makes you believe that things are happening as quickly as you say? What was it, police state by 2014? From what I can see (which isn't much), what we have now is the result of a steadily growing central government and the desire to use positive action to "fix" everything. What would cause such a sudden change in the near future?

hello Johnmike, I'll be happy to explain my thinking.

You're not wrong to think that the 2007-2014 interval isn't a lot of time. to be fair, I'm not saying that we'll be locked down in a total Police State by that point, but we will know beyond any shadow of a doubt that we are in trouble.

2009-2012 should be busy years for the next President, whoever that is. My assertion is that it'll be a Democrat, and that they will build on what Mr. Bush leaves behind. that means no sunset for the Patriot Act, reactivation of the assault weapons ban, and an augmentation of existing domestic surveillance programs to include amendments to the military commissions act...which will not be repealed. This will also include a continued suspension of Habius Corpus for enemies of the State.

As you've seen in other threads than just my own, domestic terrorism on ameircan soil is being played up. It's here, and although it really is in its infancy, it is alive and growing none the less. I do maintain that a certain amount of that is deliberate. I hope to be proven wrong, but I'm guessing that between Federal neglect and Federal exploitation, the issue of domestic terror will only play in to the hands of the law makers who will create more of those police State benchmarks we will all be looking for.

I'm guessing, just like anyone else. I'm looking at the pace of Federal action, and using that as my yard stick. In general terms, I suspect that future historians will call Hillary's second term "the beginnings of the modern American police State."

Please let me know if further clarification is needed. This is a good discussion, and I'm glad to see it being kept alive.

Originally posted by Kelldor
Get guns. Lots and lots of ammo. Canned food and freeze dried food. Camping/fishing gear. Medical supplies. Don't stay living in the cities. Move out away from the coasts into the interior of the country and join up with other patriots as we fight against the NWO/NAU and National Socialism in America.

Many of you know what I've written about militias, and the armed urban environment. I've pushed the limits of ATS T&C as far as I can. For those who don't know, here's a short list:

Home Defense in the Suburbs

The Coming Demise of American Militias

Future & Evolution of American Militias

Domestic Disarmament Policy

I bring this short sampling to your attention because there is a matter of civics that needs to be addressed. Being prepared for the unthinkable is not wrong, but its only one part of a larger process. Before you dust off your copy of "Red Dawn," remember that you have political options that must be excersized before you do anything else.