Liberalism is self defeating

And if it stuck to those things, we wouldn't pay such a massive part of our paychecks in federal tax. But, unfortunately, not everyone understands how important federalism really is.

I was just having a loud conversation with my neighbor, Mr. Fringe, regarding taxation on income.

I'm mad. I've been mad since Clinton was in office.

They take way too much of my paltry pay.

Before taxes, I make a nice living.

After, its just eh. Good luck.

Yet, I understand that we give some money toward the common good fund. We all enjoy and benefit from it. The most common benefit of taxes are our public roads. Maintenance. It costs money. Im ok with that stuff. But my tax money going to beaurocratic fatcats who have no real meaning - that pisses me off and makes me go Republican.

Sorry, all I read is "GOP are gods! Worship them! They take my money and give it billionaires then run a child sex ring after killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children! Kill the liberals, cuz of them bastards blacks and gays and women think they're equal!!!!"

Sorry, because of Liberals like Washington and Adams America Exists. because of Liberals like Lincoln this country still exists. because of Liberals like FDR this country stopped the NAZIs(Germanies Conservative party) and saved America from the Great Depression that happened under a Conservative. Because of Liberals blacks can go to the same school as a white person. because of Liberals women can vote and work. because of Liberals gays can go outside without being dragged to death behind a truck.(At least in the northern and western states its safer) Because of the Liberals we have planes, trains, automobiles, computers, medicine, NASA, all technology is based on Liberals looking forward, moving forward. Liberals are responsible for your drinking water being clean, your food not being toxic, your higher wages and benefits, your everything.

Conservatives are responsible for hate groups, Christianity, Islam, genocides of people who are "different", slavery, sexism, racism, bigotry, and bad economies.(Notice the past 40 years the GOP=Bad Economy with more spending and Liberal=Good Economy with less spending)

How come America is the only civilized nation without National Healthcare? I know, you'd rather spend 5,000 on medical insurance and told no we won't cover that instead of 200 in taxes and told yes we will cover that.

Originally posted by HHH Is King
How come America is the only civilized nation without National Healthcare? I know, you'd rather spend 5,000 on medical insurance and told no we won't cover that instead of 200 in taxes and told yes we will cover that.

I just left a free cancer clinic where I had a free consultation with a radiation oncologist to discuss my free biopsy that my free GP ordered from my free urolologist with regard to the free testing in advance of my free radiation therapy. I started to rail about the $18 (cdn) parking charge until I thought of you folks in the States...and decided to shut up. 'Nuff Said?

reply to post by EastCoastKid


Which is strange because those bureaucratic fatcats with no purpose are Republicans, who have since the Clinton years voted to shift taxation downward to make the middle class foot most of the bill. These fatcats then demand not one but two wars and are plumping for a third, in which they have handed billions of your tax dollars over to their campaign contributors in no-bid contracts. These corporations have gone on to embezzle, waste, and throw away most of this money, and come back for more which will of course be granted to them because the Republicans love themselves some "defense spending" and will of course savagely maul anyone in Congress who goes "Hey, wait a minute" as being "America-hating", "unpatriotic" and "supporting the terrorists."

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by HHH Is King
How come America is the only civilized nation without National Healthcare? I know, you'd rather spend 5,000 on medical insurance and told no we won't cover that instead of 200 in taxes and told yes we will cover that.

I just left a free cancer clinic where I had a free consultation with a radiation oncologist to discuss my free biopsy that my free GP ordered from my free urolologist with regard to the free testing in advance of my free radiation therapy. I started to rail about the $18 (cdn) parking charge until I thought of you folks in the States...and decided to shut up. 'Nuff Said?

See?But people like Semp and Grady and RR would rather spend 5,000 dollars on medical insurance to be told no we won't cover that and die of cancer than spend 200 dollars and be treated. Sad isn't it?

Also, 18 Canadian is now what, 23 USD? Since the GOP destroyed the value of the dollar. Gods what I would give for a conservative or even Bill Clinton in office instead of another Republican.

Originally posted by semperfortis

Let’s examine for a minute the differences, at their core, between Conservatism and Liberalism.

Conservatism advocates self reliance and individual responsibility. The very heart of the Conservative is based on a model patterned after the courageous adventurers that founded and first explored this great nation.

40 acres and a mule... go on.

Ideals, that if you work hard and maintain your actions within the parameters acceptable to society, you will prosper; and when you prosper, the gains are yours to keep.

Clearly, unless deemed a witch, chink, black man or woman of ill repute.

Conservatives are more inclined to give a “hand up” and not a “hand out.” Conservatives are incredibly charitable, but not inclined to support welfare. Believing that working is far more advantageous than being supported by the government.

I think I've seen that hand up. Starts with the middle finger.


Liberalism advocates a fair share to everyone, this being regulated by a huge government. Liberalism does not believe that anyone deserves to prosper beyond those around them, unless that prosperity is to be doled out to those that are not working. Liberalism is simply loosely based socialism.
Liberalism believes that those that do not work should prosper from those that do. Liberalism believes in a “hand out” not a “hand up.” Liberals are charitable as long as the funds emanate from the prosperous conservatives. Liberals believe that “conservatives” should continue to work so that they can support those that will not.

Now the two paragraphs above will...

blah, blah, blah.

If you were rich, you wouldn't be here.

What an incredible double standard..

Semper

Yeahhhhhh...

UH

Did any of you even bother to read the thread?

I mean I don't blame you, but you obviously have tons of time on your hands, digging up these old threads... Some of us have to work for a living and don't really have that kind of time..

You know the ones, middle class working America, paying all the taxes you all want to give away, or from your posts looks like you just want to keep the money for yourselves.. Maybe so you can continue to have the time to dig up reasons to spout unsubstantiated BS that everyone else has already debunked on every other thread... (just by looking at point totals mind you) ((could be wrong))

And to answer the final post...

Double Standard.. hmmmmmmm

Yep, just checked and it is now THE most popular lib accusation when someone posts something Conservative...

Yep, that's it alright...

It used to be deflection, but double standard has taken the lead...

Followed closely by deflection, spinning and twisting... No real rebuttal, no facts, just those lib accusations that get thrown around...

Well guys, it has been fun, but I have to get up at 5am to go to work.. Yep still working those 50 and 60 hour weeks to support those that want to sit in their mamas basement, typing away, and degrading those that wont pay for their wart removal...

I don't know why you all wont just come out and say it... It really is as plain as day...

You don't want to work.. You don't want to succeed... You want others, like me, to pay for your inability to make it in the world...

And when we don't want to, you make us out to be bad people... When all we are asking is that you get up, leave the basement and work as hard as we do... Stop expecting us to pay for your short comings... Is that too much to ask?


See ya

Semper

Ok, forgive my impertinence, but the GOP has had almost two full terms of free rein in America. They're pretty much getting a pass on anything they want to do from the Dems, so what you're looking at is the Republican party platform, writ large. They are there to take full credit, or take the blame.

As an interested observer and a neighbour, I guess what I need to ask is simply, are you Conservatives happy with what they've done with your America?

I guess what I need to ask is simply, are you Conservatives happy with what they've done with your America?

As I have freely stated in several "Current" threads, yes...

I consider myself very successful, at a level personally and financially above what I have ever been...(personal success mind you, there are many that are more than me)

Despite the "Doom Sayers" the economy is flourishing and I find myself and those in my peer group in positions to have more, buy more and live more than ever before.

I am active politically and correspond with that group in many states across the nation and find this is true for them as well.

The Tax Cuts energized the economy and my investments are up as is my portfolio.

I also understand that as a natural course the economy fluctuates, I prepare for this as does anyone not expecting to be supported by SOMEONE ELSE'S MONEY.

But it's not really about the economy for some now is it?

I have come to the complete realization that it really is about some wanting others to support them so they don't have to face the "Big Bad" world and actually get out there and make it on their own.

It's tough. I know that as well or better than anyone. I have found myself walking to work because I could not afford a car payment. Now it was only about 3 miles and the exercise was good for me, but I had priorities and set them for my future. I could have just begun crying about how unfair it was that everyone else had a car, about how they should provide me with the means to get a car, but I figured they did. They gave me a job and I knew if I worked hard enough, I would have one. Know what?

I was right.

Semper

how is a thread which relies entirely on a straw man argument still alive? honestly, this entire thing is just one logical fallacy..
actually, it's too. it also creates a false dichotomy between conservatism and liberalism. there is, in fact, a continuum... actually, it's more of a circle. people can take parts of either set and like them.

Darn

Thanks Madness...

I had forgotten the lib "strawman" argument... I don't know where it goes in the list of oft-used lib excuses, but I'll check and get back...

Semper

reply to post by semperfortis


you created a false premise, saying liberalism is this: __________

when it isn't really what you claimed it to be.

that's called a strawman. it's a logical fallacy.
so are you saying that the "libs" have a monopoly on logical consistency?

But Madness, Liberalism is ___________________---- (Insert previous here)

Just because your opinion differs from mine, in no way makes you right and me wrong...

My opinion is every bit as valid as yours and that is what "I" believe Libs to be...

Opinions my good man.... Opinions.....

I see Liberalism as the great evil of our time. The beast who's ultimate goal is the destruction of all I hold dear...

Now mind you not the "Moderate" "Reasonable" libs, NO, the ones that want more lawsuits, more taxation, more unnecessary social programs that don't work... Those libs are destroying everything I have worked so hard to support...

Semper

Semperfortis I have a question.

Who or what do you consider a moderate Liberal to be ?

Cheers xpert11.

The finest example I can think of is Joe Lieberman...

Although we differ greatly on base issues, he approaches them with common sense and does not have the attitude that just because he thinks something, it makes him correct...

I like that in a person...

He is intelligent enough to be capable of seeing the other side of the issue and not so afraid of Conservatives as to shy from those issues...

In other words he can disagree and even condemn, but not dismiss....

I disagree with libs, I condemn their wanton disregard for history, but I will never dismiss their belief that what they do is right.. They are misguided and misinformed, but mostly sincere in wanting someone else to pay the bill...

Semper