The 10 commandments

I understand all you folks who think that we were just somehow created out of dirt, but anyway, are the ten commandments so bad?? Even if you dont believe?

What would be the harm in following them, if not for a reigious sense, but a moral one??

Do all you non believers think they are so wrong? and if so on what grounds??

If you are an atheist what guidlines do you support? are they so different from that of GOD that you would turn the other way from his teachings just to prove a point??!!

good=good

evil=evil

Whats your stance???

Checked wiki to find that depending on who you talk to, there are 11. Or 10.

Anyway, here we go:

1) I am the Lord thy God

Er, no. Can`t say I agree with that one.

2) Thou shalt have no other gods before me

Again, nope. I`ve got a problem with this one, based on my objection to number 1.

3) Thou shalt not make for thyself an idol

Tricky theological ground, IMO - as an athiest, choosing to accept numbers 1 and 2 would land me in trouble on number 3. Damned if I do, damned if I don`t.

4) Thou shalt not make wrongful use of the name of thy God

As I have no god... no problem, and easily done.

5) Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy

Insert pithy comment here.

6) Honor thy Mother and Father
7) Thou shalt not murder
8) Thou shalt not commit adultery
9) Thou shalt not steal
10) Thou shalt not bear false witness
11) Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife
12? (??? how did i get to 12?) Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house.

As far as 6-11 (or possibly 12) go, no problem. Seem like pretty good suggestions for leading a decent life, especially the coveting bit. If you can get past all the coveting, you can easily avoid most reasons for murder, nearly all reasons for theft, and a good deal of the false witnessing.

The problem is that they`re a set. The emphasis seems to be pretty heavy on the god bits at the beginning, while the stuff that actually makes people`s lives better in the here and now comes way down at the bottom. None of it actually offends me, but the first half just seems a bit silly to apply in my life.

I'm not an atheist, but I don't follow any specific religion either. The way I see it is I don't consciously follow the ten commandments (don't think they're wrong either)... but I do follow my own inner sense of right and wrong, and I try to treat others as I would like others to treat me. It's not exactly the same, but I think it's somewhere in the same arena.

Originally posted by vox2442

As far as 6-11 (or possibly 12) go, no problem. Seem like pretty good suggestions for leading a decent life, especially the coveting bit. If you can get past all the coveting, you can easily avoid most reasons for murder, nearly all reasons for theft, and a good deal of the false witnessing.

The problem is that they`re a set. The emphasis seems to be pretty heavy on the god bits at the beginning, while the stuff that actually makes people`s lives better in the here and now comes way down at the bottom. None of it actually offends me, but the first half just seems a bit silly to apply in my life.

I second that.

Originally posted by redseal
I understand all you folks who think that we were just somehow created out of dirt,

that's the religious side (adam comes from the word for dirt in hebrew "adama"). we believe humans evolved from lower lifeforms.

but anyway, are the ten commandments so bad?? Even if you dont believe?

well, for one rape is absent from the list

What would be the harm in following them, if not for a reigious sense, but a moral one??

well, the first 4 involve religion.. COVETING is considered a crime... and we can come up with better secular morality. oh, and they equate a woman to property

Do all you non believers think they are so wrong? and if so on what grounds??

again, no rape
first 4 involve religion.
coveting is considered a crime
women are equated to property

If you are an atheist what guidlines do you support?

secular humanism

are they so different from that of GOD that you would turn the other way from his teachings just to prove a point??!!

well, half of them are useless....

good=good

evil=evil

Whats your stance???

humans can come up with better morality

Ten Commandents are unified in Two Commandments
Love God with all your heart
Love your neighbour as yourself
the rest takes care of itself...its that simple and that profound.
PS
the world is decieved because the devil loves to flirt with the details thats why Yeshua cleared that all up into two commandments.

but the one to add to those two that is not followed in most lives especially in light of the modern world is in never taking a day of rest once every seven

Which Ten Commandments are you referring to?

Because this thread discusses several different versions.

And anyway, morality is not created by religion. Morality goes all the way back to our primate ancestors. Though it was more primitive then, morality is a code of conduct that allows us to live in social groupings. No religion necessary.

I am a non-theist, but I am an ETHICAL person. I practice what Christians call the Golden Rule, do unto others. But that does not mean that Christians have a monopoly on the concept. And from what I've seen, a great many people who profess to be Christian are anything but moral (or ethical).

It does not matter which set, the same two cover all the different variables.

The study of major religions shows that the number one creed amoungs all religions is to treat your neighbour as you would treat yourself.

I think that would make a perfect world...unless of course your sadistic and your neigbours not.



not everyone wants to be mankind from WWE

There's actually more than two ...

There are at least three versions. Quit swinging on those vines, JL, and read, man, read!

junglelord, the "golden rule" is a product of moral philosophy, not religion. and the whole "love god part" isn't a moral thing

thats what I said, just in other words.
I did not include love god as the number one cree...its love they neigbour and that came from a study of religions I saw at the local hospital on the wall that celebrates the common creed in I think about 28 religions.

I cannot agree more junglelord. The two rules allow a sense of completeness to human behaviour because believers realise that life is a journey- not an end in itself.

eh im not too big on the commandments.. just live life with common sense its easy. of course you shouldn't murder of course you should be cool to your parents. stuff like that is a given. keep it real and be a good person is what i live by. no need to be a meanie!

Hey Madness, Question..., why do you have a problem with coveting?

And yes the word Adam ( man ) came from Adamah ( soil ). But, if you look at Hebrew not only do those look similar but also these look similar to: Dam ( blood ), Adom ( color Red ), and Dama ( to weep ). From a Christian point of view, thats powerful.

God Bless

Originally posted by followerofchrist
Hey Madness, Question..., why do you have a problem with coveting?

the coveting commandment(s depending on which set you go by) equate women to property.
and
coveting is something that can be done unconciously, without intent

Well I don't know about unconsiously, I mean we have free will right? So, if we have free will then we should be able to chose which thoughts pop into our heads. Those bad thoughts, or selfish thoughts, jealous thoughts or any thought that is not good should be able to leave our mind if we take our thoughts captive and turn them good.

Is what I'm saying making sense?

as far as equating women to property, true women were not looked upon as highly as they are now. One thing though, if you have read the New Testament God says to submit to your husbands ( speaking to the wives ) but that is not all. We, being men, are supposed to love our wives as Jesus loved the Church.

You may be wondering why I brought up wives? well, in the Old Testament that is exactly what they were told to do, submit to your husbands.

People in large numbers will try and take advantage of this, which they did, and respect that men should of had for women was lost.

God Bless

Originally posted by Lilin

Originally posted by vox2442

As far as 6-11 (or possibly 12) go, no problem. Seem like pretty good suggestions for leading a decent life, especially the coveting bit. If you can get past all the coveting, you can easily avoid most reasons for murder, nearly all reasons for theft, and a good deal of the false witnessing.

The problem is that they`re a set. The emphasis seems to be pretty heavy on the god bits at the beginning, while the stuff that actually makes people`s lives better in the here and now comes way down at the bottom. None of it actually offends me, but the first half just seems a bit silly to apply in my life.

I second that.

I 'third' that

There seems to be a differentiating sort emerging from the Non-Ignorance!
We are the underlying force that has a Valid saying to what has been portrayed before our eyes, and we have a valid topic to discuss!

[edit on 9-6-2007 by TheDuckster]

Originally posted by followerofchrist
Well I don't know about unconsiously, I mean we have free will right? So, if we have free will then we should be able to chose which thoughts pop into our heads. Those bad thoughts, or selfish thoughts, jealous thoughts or any thought that is not good should be able to leave our mind if we take our thoughts captive and turn them good.

but that flies in the face of everything we know about how the mind works. we have a SUBconcious along with our concious mind

Is what I'm saying making sense?

it makes sense, but it isn't true

as far as equating women to property, true women were not looked upon as highly as they are now. One thing though, if you have read the New Testament God says to submit to your husbands ( speaking to the wives ) but that is not all. We, being men, are supposed to love our wives as Jesus loved the Church.

and women SHOULDN'T SUBMIT. they should be equals. and if a perfect being WROTE the ten commandments in stone on its own... why wouldn't it have included a thing saying "all people are equal"?

You may be wondering why I brought up wives? well, in the Old Testament that is exactly what they were told to do, submit to your husbands.

and they were considered property
and spousal rape was seen as ok

People in large numbers will try and take advantage of this, which they did, and respect that men should of had for women was lost.

but they should still submit...

and again, why didn't your PERFECT god say "thou shalt not rape" or "thou shalt not assault in any way" or "thou shalt not enslave"?

Ok madness listen to this, By submitting to your husbands it means the wives are willing to listen to their husbands. That they will live for their husbands and no one else. By doing this they are equals because, we ( the men ) have to in turn love them like Christ loved the church, which means we have to be willing to stand by her to the end, willing to do anything for her, be willing to be ridiculed, beat, and die for her. Without once not thinking of her. So in truthfulness, we ( the men ) have the hard part.

The reason God did not specifically put you shall not commit rape or anything like that is because if you follow all the Commandments and listen to what Paul says in Corintians then, you will not rape. Especially if you listen to the Commandments that talk about your neighbor and coveting, the last two.

I understand we have a SUBconcious but, you can control what thoughts go through your head. Example, The media has burned it into our brains that women look attractive if they are super skinny. So, you see a slightly overweight woman walking around at the beach in a bikini, a thought pops into your head, " Man she is ugly. " Now, you can discard that thought replacing it with a good thought, or you can dwell on that thought, soon turning it to action by telling this lady that she is ugly or fat. Doing this could lower her self esteem and possibly hurt herself because of it.

God Bless

Originally posted by followerofchrist
Ok madness listen to this, By submitting to your husbands it means the wives are willing to listen to their husbands.

definitions for submit:
1. to give over or yield to the power or authority of another (often used reflexively).
2. to subject to some kind of treatment or influence.
3. to present for the approval, consideration, or decision of another or others: to submit a plan; to submit an application.
4. to state or urge with deference; suggest or propose (usually fol. by a clause): I submit that full proof should be required.

wives (give over or yield to the power or authority) to your husbands
wives (subject to some kind of treatment or influence) to your husbands

3 and 4 have to do with a different form of the word submit that has absolutely nothing to do with this situation. but i wonder what the word was in greek...

That they will live for their husbands and no one else. By doing this they are equals because, we ( the men ) have to in turn love them like Christ loved the church, which means we have to be willing to stand by her to the end, willing to do anything for her, be willing to be ridiculed, beat, and die for her. Without once not thinking of her. So in truthfulness, we ( the men ) have the hard part.

except for the fact that the word submit means nothing like you said it means... the entire passage you refer to is in fact just one of many such misogynistic passages in the bible.

The reason God did not specifically put you shall not commit rape or anything like that is because if you follow all the Commandments and listen to what Paul says in Corintians then, you will not rape.

paul came how many years after the commandments?
honestly, the perfect being would lay that down if he put THEFT and COVETING in there.

Especially if you listen to the Commandments that talk about your neighbor and coveting, the last two.

wow, so now you're going to reference the misogynistic comandment "thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife"
which is... well, equating her to property. and what does that have to do with raping your OWN wife? spousal rape wasn't looked down upon back then...

I understand we have a SUBconcious but, you can control what thoughts go through your head.

to an extent, but not all of them.

Example, The media has burned it into our brains that women look attractive if they are super skinny. So, you see a slightly overweight woman walking around at the beach in a bikini, a thought pops into your head, " Man she is ugly. " Now, you can discard that thought replacing it with a good thought, or you can dwell on that thought, soon turning it to action by telling this lady that she is ugly or fat. Doing this could lower her self esteem and possibly hurt herself because of it.

well, overweightness isn't just about being "ugly" it's also about being HEALTHY. someone that's underweight is also ugly, imo.