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Sukhoi PAK FA (Russian Fifth-generation fighter)

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posted on Oct, 1 2007 @ 05:07 PM
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Originally posted by vedas
I have heard rumors about Indian involvement in PAK FA as Russians are short of $$$$.

Even the Indian officials are confirming that they are in talks with Russia for the joint development of 5th Gen fighter.

I have also read that India has rejected the proposal of PAK FA as Indians wanted a lighter plane.


The RuAF offered to allow India into the PAK-FA program as a joint developer. Although India is not necessarily interested in buying PAK-FA (their current LCA and MRCA programs are enough to hold them out for next-gens, and the Su-30 MKI manufacturing deal won't hurt either), the idea is for them to gain more experience in aircraft design (my theory). This coincides with the deal for HAL to produce some Su-30's as well as the development of the Tejas LCA. Ultimately, I expect that this will result in some very interesting indigenous designs in later years.




posted on Oct, 1 2007 @ 05:11 PM
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So what is the current status of PAK FA with respect to India.

And if there is gonna be any Indo-Russian 5th Generation Fighter Joint Development.........is it gonna be PAK FA or anything else???

Is there any other 5th generation project Russia is looking into besides PAK FA?

And what is the effect of PAK FA on Indian 126 MRCA Deal???



posted on Oct, 1 2007 @ 05:41 PM
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There is some stuff on net which says that India is part of PAK FA but no official press release.


[edit on 1-10-2007 by vedas]



posted on Oct, 1 2007 @ 06:45 PM
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Originally posted by vedas
So what is the current status of PAK FA with respect to India.


The current status of PAK-FA is no different to India than it is to Russia or other countries: Currently in development. The companies involved have finalized the design and are supposed to have begun construction of the prototype by now in order for its first flight in 2008.



And if there is gonna be any Indo-Russian 5th Generation Fighter Joint Development.........is it gonna be PAK FA or anything else???


At the moment it is PAK-FA. Anything else that could happen in the future is currently unknown.



Is there any other 5th generation project Russia is looking into besides PAK FA?


Originally there was an investigation into a light multirole, which I believe yielded the MiG i-2000 airframe. Ultimately this project was abandoned, or at least set aside, while PAK-FA is made.



And what is the effect of PAK FA on Indian 126 MRCA Deal???


Nothing. The PAK-FA is outside the size that the MRCA is affected with, and will have no effect on the competition whatsoever. The T-50 is designed to be a competitor for the F-22 Raptor, well outside the sizes that are being considered.



posted on Oct, 1 2007 @ 09:05 PM
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Nothing. The PAK-FA is outside the size that the MRCA is affected with, and will have no effect on the competition whatsoever. The T-50 is designed to be a competitor for the F-22 Raptor, well outside the sizes that are being considered.


Darkpr0 I disagree with you in this aspect as PAK FA will affect the MRCA deal. India entering in PAK FA just nullifies the F 35 bait of Americans. Moreover US was never gonna share technology of F 35 with India. So this rules out F 16 which was IMO never a contender. Gripen and Eurofighter can't meet the deadlines of India as they already have a lot of export orders to cater to. So this leaves us with three contenders F 18 S/H, Mig-35 and Rafale.

IMO Rafale is also not a serious contender so IMHO the fight is in between F 18 S/H and Mig 35.

Although I will go for Mig 35 blindfoldedly just looking at the credentials of the plane, but the major deciding factor in MRCA deal is supposed to be geo-political scenario.

Russia has already pressed upon India by forcing Tazakis not to allow IAF base in their land. If MRCA deal goes for Mig 35 and India already in Joint Collaboration with Russia in MTA, India's balance doesn't seem to be tilting towards america in near future.

It will be interesting to see what does US do to get India's attention.

So my friend, IMO all this is inter-related.



posted on Oct, 1 2007 @ 09:33 PM
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Double Post. My bad.

[edit on 10/1/2007 by Darkpr0]



posted on Oct, 1 2007 @ 09:34 PM
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Originally posted by vedas
Darkpr0 I disagree with you in this aspect as PAK FA will affect the MRCA deal. India entering in PAK FA just nullifies the F 35 bait of Americans.
Moreover US was never gonna share technology of F 35 with India.


Well, it was pretty obvious that the US would not give them every single technical detail about the aircraft, its capabilities, and the DIY guide to AESA and stealth. Therefore, the advantages contained therein were never present anyway (For the record, there is AESA in MiG-35 anyway, which would have put a pretty big dent in one of the big deals, which was procurement of AESA). Also, the IAF would not have received the F-35 off the bat. The offer was:


They said if the IAF chose the Lockheed Martin world's best selling fighter F-16 fighting flacons, it could "position India to be ready to receive advanced technologies incorporated in the F-35's." Lockheed Martin officials said lot of new technologies being tested on F-35 would be leveraged in the new generation F-16 Block 50 fighters.


Link

Which basically translates as "You'll get the F-35. But it'll just act a lot like, look a lot like, and be a lot like an F-16. But it'll be shinier". The idea was to leverage India into joining the F-35 program, which I really couldn't say whether they were keen on it or not. But judging by the F-16's presence within the program it is a possibility. Albeit an unlikely one, since the F-16 is not the most impressive aircraft there. Even if they would be slated to get the F-35 later, the idea here is NOT to get an aircraft that'll last them forever. The MCA project (Indian 5th generation medium a/c) is supposed to be the end result with the MRCA plugging the gap in the middle.



If MRCA deal goes for Mig 35 and India already in Joint Collaboration with Russia in MTA, India's balance doesn't seem to be tilting towards america in near future.


I thought Russia was already India's biggest arms dealer? Even so, cooperation with PAK-FA, purchase of a whole whack of Su-30 MKI's, possible further buy of the MiG-35's, I'd bet on Russia.

Ultimately, though, the decision to cooperate with PAK-FA does not affect the MRCA. The Indians are looking for an aircraft now which is why the future possibility of getting the F-35 is irrelevant. Even though PAK-FA cooperation is generally a big deal, it's not going to change the competition in any significant way. It's about the fighters involved here and now, what's best, and how much it costs.

Is PAK-FA a big deal? Yep. Is it going to change the way that any of the competitors performs? Nope.



posted on Oct, 1 2007 @ 09:56 PM
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Ur opinions and views are valid if the MRCA deal is done on pure merit, which does not seem to be the case



posted on Oct, 1 2007 @ 11:58 PM
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Oye oye!!
The PAK-FA has nothing to do with the MRCA. The MRCA deal exists because of the LCA shortcomings in schedule.

I believe that India is actively involved in the PAK-FA, but this is considered to be covert co-operation just like many other covert Indo-Russian ventures especially in the sphere of nuclear attack subs and nuclear cruise missile subs.

IMHO the PAK-FA will not see series induction till 2025, for many reasons most of which are obvious. This is not a problem for India as it hopes to maintain 30-35 sqn strength till 2025.
Beyond 2025 India cannot be happy with MKIs, MRCAs and LCAs as the primary air-sup fighter(s). A stealthy fighter needs to be in the IOC process by this time at least.
I do not believe India can achieve that with the MCA. I infact do not know what the MCA is anymore. Some are saying that it is now configured to by a heavy strike fighter and not a air-sup fighter.
So in any case a stealthy IOC-ed air-sup fighter is required by 2025(for teh IAF).

Whether that is the F-35 or PAK-FA, one really can't tell.. yes if the MRCA deal goes to the wild west then the F-35 does definitely become a possibility.
Otherwise its the PAK-FA(or PAK-FA derivatives)



posted on Oct, 2 2007 @ 07:10 AM
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Missiles that can fly backwards?

Makes sence.




posted on Oct, 2 2007 @ 11:35 AM
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OK cease fire...........No linking with PAK FA and MRCA henceforth

I have come across many videos and documents in Russian regarding PAK FA but nothing in English.

If anyone finds anything in English kindly share



posted on Oct, 8 2007 @ 04:16 AM
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For it seems that the Indians are keen to work on the PAK-FA..



He said India was close to inking the deal for joint development and manufacture of the fifth generation fighter and multi role transport aircraft with Russia.
Source



posted on Oct, 12 2007 @ 04:43 AM
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The multi-billion-dollar deal will be the largest joint development programme in the military sphere between the two countries.

India is looking for a next generation stealth fighter to match and exceed the capabilities of F 22 Raptor already in service with the USA and the JSF being jointly developed by the US and the UK.

....In January, Russia promised that a prototype of the PAK-FA would take its first flight in early 2009. However, the IAF believes it will take close to a decade before the first fighter would be ready for induction.


.....
While the Sukhoi Design Bureau has already finalized the basic design and features of the aircraft, India is hoping to contribute to the program and gain some valuable expertise for its DRDO scientists.

The PAK-FA is expected to have advanced stealth features, an Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar, thrust vectoring for increased maneuverability and a super cruise mode to fly at supersonic speed without using afterburners.
Source


I feel that we will be hearing a lot more about this in the next month or so.
Hopefully it will bring to light new weapons systems(K-172) that could be used on this jet, which now is most definitely an inevitability.

EDIT: Will somebody please get fix this horizontal scroll?


[edit on 12-10-2007 by Daedalus3]



posted on Oct, 12 2007 @ 07:59 AM
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This one seems to be much more advanced than Rpator erh?!

What do you think?




posted on Oct, 12 2007 @ 08:40 AM
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Originally posted by vedas
If anyone finds anything in English kindly share


I am, of course, going to get beaten for saying this, but that's fine. I can honestly say that if you check out Wikipedia's PAK-FA entry, you'll get a lot of stuff that's pretty solid. People all over this forum tell me how Wikipedia is a bad source, has errors, ruins your marriage, flatulates in the elevators, and so on. In this case, it's not a half-bad place to go.



posted on Oct, 16 2007 @ 01:39 AM
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More news on Indian participation:
www.hindu.com...

Like I said we can expect more news on this in the next few weeks..

However no mention of the PAK-FA(or Sukhoi)in the above article indicates that this Fifth generation fighter might venture not necessarily be the PAK-FA..
Note the Indians are now calling it the 'FGA'..



The Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) has cleared the Fifth Generation Aircraft (FGA), along with the price for an additional order for 40 Sukhoi-30 MKI, said sources in the government. It also approved an aircraft-related joint venture between a Russian company and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL).


Also no F-35 for India then?


India was also encouraged by the Russian offer to involve itself right from the start of the project. That would not have been the case had India been involved with the U.S.-led project. Indian participation will make it the only country to be involved in a project of this nature. According to Air Force chief Air Chief Marshal Fali H. Major, it will take five years to develop and flight- test the FGA and another five before it starts flying. However, the sources said the timetable spelt out by the Air Force chief could be preceded by long discussions on the modalities of the complex and daunting project.


EDIT: More news:

content.msn.co.in...

So the project is estimated to be $8 billion and IPR are to be sorted out at a later stage..

[edit on 16-10-2007 by Daedalus3]



posted on Oct, 18 2007 @ 02:08 PM
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Looks like the PAK-FA deal has been signed.

Link to News item

Hopefully this deal should get moving unlike other projects that seem to get nowhere.



posted on Oct, 21 2007 @ 04:15 AM
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Here is the requirements of the T-50 (look at the right note panel), and some pictures :

wikipedia

[img]
[/img]




posted on Oct, 22 2007 @ 01:19 AM
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Your photo present PAK_FA as Raptorski, which impossible to be new Su-50. Only copy profile is not right way to desgin fighter eventhough Blackjack is a copy from Lancer, but that is such a huge bomber. To design a fighter, you can not do same thing --- just think Tu160 almost 50%bigger than B1B.



posted on Oct, 22 2007 @ 02:26 AM
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reply to post by emile
 


Jozef Gatial is an excellent artist who has put some really great aircraft pics onto the net, however he does not work for Sukhoi. Also the image is dated 2005, 2 years before the design freeze. Other good images by Gatial include the TSR 2 and Avro 730 in RAF service, I have them on my PC.

You see he is a 'what if....?' artist so there is no need to get worked up about how much like the Raptor they look.

Here is one example of his talent, which I like very much. It can even make you take a dislike to the Tornado




[edit on 22-10-2007 by waynos]





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