STS-117: Omnibus Thread

Also how does the location of the blanket gash correlate to the location on the ET where these sprays are happening?

I believe the two anomalies to be connected, a failure of some sort, perhaps overpressure, or mechanical deploy issue. Also the location of the sprays is pretty clear on the video, this too can be correlated to pictures that we have to determine what is the likely culprit...

Round figures where the sprays originate on the ET are roughly 80 - 85ft from the port OMS blanket "lift". They could be connected, I'm not sure how though. Most everything seems nominal on the run "uphill". Weird.

Vic

Just a brief update at 1:20AM EDT, Shuttle Atlantis' crew has finished inspections for the day, without finding anything out of the ordinary.

The "lifted" section of TPS blanket on the port OMS pod is relatively minor as John Shannon said at today's MIssion Statue news conference, "we'll look at the data and program it into the simulation software." and "at this time we see no great issue."

STS-121 had TPS blanket damage in a far worse place on the nose near the windows and on the crew escape hatch cover. STS-114 also had TPS blanket "lift" in the area right beneath Commander Eileen Collins port side window. Any report has yet to be issued but it is of little to no concern at this time. Just to reinforce this notion, STS-1 did not have any blankets (all tiles) and several of the tiles on the OMS pods were completely missing and caused no problems for Young and Crippen on re-entry.

For those worried about the blanket "unzipping" or falling off, this is very, very unlikely as the lamniar flow envelope created during re-entry prevents this... there is a small aerodynamic issue but as Mission Manager John Shannon stated the software sims can predict how this may (if at all) affect the re-entry and compensating values can be programmed into the Shuttle avionics system.

The crew went to sleep at the schedulled time of 1:07AM EDT, and wake approximately 7:00AM EDT to prepare for ISS docking at 3:38PM EDT Sunday.

Vic

[edit on 10-6-2007 by V Kaminski]

Ok, so lets rewind here. Toss the blanket and sprays aside for a second.

What was that white thing that flew by the tank??

I don't know what the "white thing" was that flew by, or the tumbling elongated thing that crossed the flight path of Atlantis and it's external tank.

Good question.

Atlantis continues to close on ISS at about 280 miles per orbit with an OMS burn to slow rates coming up. This will be a busy day, docking, crew exchange, Canadarm operations, truss hand-off to Canadarm 2 on ISS, and some cargo transfer to ISS.

Cheers,

Vic

[edit on 10-6-2007 by V Kaminski]

To reply to Byrd's query about where the TPS blanket "lift" is on the OMS pod, here's a photo that shows the tail fin and port side OMS pod.



More photos were requested by Mission Control Houston and will be taken from the aft-deck today... again, there is little cause for alarm. STS-1 did not have blankets at all and the OMS pods looked like this photo.



Another "burn" coming up to prepare for rendezvous with ISS and the always fun to watch OPM (Orbital Pitch Manouvre) to be photographed by Yurchikin and Kotov with 400mm and 800mm digital cameras. The OPM is a back-flip in place for inspection purposes... no mention of whether there will be a "fly around" ISS for Atlantis to take photos of ISS.

Once docked, and coms and the network hooked up, Danny-O and JR will begin the "airlock camp-out" to de-press in preparation for tomorrow's spacewalk. Clayton Anderson will bolt his Soyuz-TMA seat into the escape/return Soyuz and at that point he will be an ISS crew-member and Sunita Williams will join the STS-117 crew.

At the end of the day the P3 "handoff" from Canadarm to Canadarm2 on ISS will be of interest as the last "big" event for FD-3 (Flight Day 3).

Cheers,

Vic

EDIT: A nifty feature on Lockheed's "Pencil Sharpener" has become available, it was the special tool used in the VAB (Vehicle Assembly Building) to dress the surface of the March hail-damaged nose of External Tank Number 127. NASA's Lockheed "Pencil Sharpener", quite a story in it's own right. All photos are courtesy of NASA unless otherwise stated.



A photo of the hail damage in March:



Vic

[edit on 10-6-2007 by V Kaminski]

Some photos of "stuff"!

First up, a sun-glared image from slightly before the time of the video (that schu' so kindly uploaded for us).



Now in the video post at the 00:06, 00:12, 00:17, 00:22, 00:25, 00:29, and 00:36 second mark(s) there are the "sprays". A couple-a-three pics:







And a couple more of "stuff":






And if one checks the video at 01:37 - 01:43, one can see the white "thing", a member mentioned earlier in the thread a couple of pics:





And if one looks at the video from 01:55 - 02:04 one can see an oblong "thingie" tumble from top to bottom of the camera view... I tried capturing it but it is very faint so I didn't think a pic would do it proud.

Atlantis is approaching ISS with out issue and is schedules to dock at 3:38 EDT.

Cheers,

Vic

[edit on 10-6-2007 by V Kaminski]

Originally posted by V Kaminski
I don't know what the "white thing" was that flew by, or the tumbling elongated thing that crossed the flight path of Atlantis and it's external tank.

Was it possibly the foam that they mentioned elsewhere? And do we see similar things in other shuttle missions?

[edit on 10-6-2007 by Byrd]

I suppose anythings possible. They are at an altitude of about 400000 feet or so at that point so foam is unlikely and any that does shed usually falls off much earlier in the ascent phase, most if not all foam loss occurs at, and slightly after, SRB Sep which happens about 6 minutes or so previous to the start of the video clip a little after T - plus 2:12.

Right at ET Sep there is some debris from the explosive bolts but none I would describe as looking like the "white thing" another member mentioned earlier and no where near that trajectory.

One other thing about the trajectory of the "debris/whatever" it mostly crosses perpendicular to the flight path of STS-117 and the External Tank. That would not seem to be entirely consistent with what one might expect. It will be explained as space-junk if anyone asks I suspect.

Shuttle Atlantis is successfully docked at 3:38 PM EDT and the hatches between shuttle and ISS should be opened in about 45 minutes, or so.

Some of the shots of the Shuttle and Earth in the background are awesome (www.nasa.gov/tv) and reminds me that I'll never get to be there... oh well - next life. LOL.

Cheers,

Vic

EDIT: Sorry, I forgot to reply fully, Byrd. Some of the "stuff" is easily explained away. The External Tank "sprays" were not seen in STS-114, STS-121, (not in STS-115 that I can tell) and were not evident in STS-116 last December...

[edit on 10-6-2007 by V Kaminski]

Good job Vic posting those screenshots of the sprays and other STUFF that appears in that video - Definitely interesting.

The spray anomaly is looking more and more like some kind of spray from the external tank. Other ideas like sunlight interaction causing outgassing arent that feasible because the direction would be wrong (the sunlight is coming from the other direction). I'm wondering if the outer hull of the ET was punctured (possibly from the SRB separation sequence, notice the charred area, which occurs on all sep sequences), does the interior of the ET hold some ambient pressure? Not talking about the L-ox or hydrogen tanks, but the intermed. tank compartment...

The Mission Staus Briefing news conference has just ended. The blanket "lift" seemed to be of focus and much was made about various "scenarios" including repair.

The origin of the "lift" was stated to be aero-loading as opposed to a FOD strike. The will have a team of EVA and Engineering people "look" at it. Shannon said he was leaning toward repair, but waiting for engineering Team 4 led by Mike Suffredini. Plus LH SRB camera footage should add more data tomorrow.

We should know more tomorrow but as some carbon honeycomb is exposed we may see a repair added to an EVA. A repair could just be a "tuck in". There are some repair scenarios with plates, glue, pins and wire ties. They were developed several years ago and I'll see if I can dig up data.

The ET tank divot was discussed and was not a strike on the orbiter when it occured at T - Plus 137 seconds. They indicated that it may be occurring in spots that co-incide with the level of liqiud hydrogen propellant in the external tank.

Engine performance was nomial. They are positioning the 14 some-odd-tons of P3 truss and the Soyuz-TMA seat exchange is underway.

Some pics, first, a history of OMS damage over the STS history:



And an OBSS boom view from above (right is aft):


And a reverse view of the same:


Nothing was mentioned of the "sprays" or other "stuff" as mentioned earlier in the thread; no one in the media asked about them. I'm not surprised.

Cheers,

Vic

EdIT: I will try and get some good photos of "strike" blanket damage and hopefully some pics or a PDF on repair techniques.

[edit on 10-6-2007 by V Kaminski]

Yeah greatlakes, the "sprays"are a 2 Foster's problem. Look close. Am I seeing localized heating of a small focussed area of foam vaporizing? Yes there is a small partial positive pressure in the intertank at launch but is equakized as altitude increased and air pressure drops.

I thought Reaction Control System (RCS thrusters) but the external tank has none and once separated from the Orbiter the ET is dead although there are some batteries in the intertank cavity. I also thought of light reflecting... but that didn't seem quite right.

I don't know whats causing the "sprays" and will entertain any idea at this point. I've never seen that on STS-114, 121, 115 (although I'm not 100% sure) and not at all on STS-116.

Cheers,

Vic

[edit on 10-6-2007 by V Kaminski]

It would seem logical that a very small puncture in the ET would cause large sprays, and would explain the intermittent nature of the anomaly as well, possibly plugging up every so often as the remaining liquid sloshed around within the baffles in the external tank. These small punctures could be caused by micrometeoroid impact, impacts at several kms per second...

Perhaps, I don't know greatlakes. Ill look at it a bit more when my eyes are more rested. We do know that there is HD footage of this - and stills. Will we ever see them? Maybe, but I doubt it.

If someone has a "friend" that has access to higher resolution footage then it would be interesting to see similar points in the timeline on STS-114, 121, 115 and 116.

No one asked at the news conference... well I'm patient and still 10 or so days nominal mission duration. I'm not American or I'd FOIA a bunch of stuff. Oh, well.

I look forward to the space walks on Monday, Wednesday and Friday and Danny-O and JR are getting ready for the "airlock camp-out".

Cheers,

Vic

[edit on 10-6-2007 by V Kaminski]

There may be one possible answer for the "sprays" of which I counted six or seven separate plumes. On ET sep there is a pyrotechnically activated Oxyen Vent "Tumble Valve" that is supposed to tumble the nose of the External Tank down and away from the Orbiter as it departs using the explosive bolts and it's own Reaction Control System (RCS) thrusters.

That could account for one spray as it is pyrotechnically (explosive) activated and I can't find enough data on the mechanism (yet) to have a good grasp of whether or not multiple firings are possible. I got the impression that this valve was higher on the ET though (closer to the nose).

There is also a liquid hydrogen vent (without the tumble valve) just at the bottom of the intertank area and both tanks run fairly low pressure 22PSI for the Oh-Two and the hydogen tank runs 34PSI nominal.

I will follow up as time and data becomes available. A NASA Kennedy Space Center article with the venting data is here.

I found a feature article on the TPS blankets which have been manufactured at Kennedy for the last two years, having moved from California during one of many re-organizations at NASA. It's at this link.

Looking around the NASA Ames site I found a feature with some high res pics of "strike damage" to TPS blankets that was generated during testing when the concern was for STS-114 blanket damage. Scroll down for the links to the high res photos on this Ames webpage..

As greatlakes mentioned to me via u2u that doesn't explain the other "stuff" at all and I'm not sure the Oxygen Tumble Valve is a complete explanation owing to the repetitive "sprays".

Cheers,

Vic

[edit on 10-6-2007 by V Kaminski]

So, is NASA talking about any of this? I haven't checked yet, but I would think they would have something to say... it would be very interesting if they remain close-mouthed over everything.

Originally posted by damajikninja
So, is NASA talking about any of this? I haven't checked yet, but I would think they would have something to say... it would be very interesting if they remain close-mouthed over everything.

NASA talks about a great many things publicly, (and much more privately I suspect) but at times seems less than forthcoming about things "that are not on the Mission Timeline" when at these Mission Status news conferences. The "media" does not seem to be interested in pursuing these "off-nominal" subjects.

ISS and Atlantis crew have woken at 9:08 AM EDT and today's "get it in gear music" was by the Ozark Mountain Daredevils and named "It Probably Always Will" (I like the Car Over The Lake Album - especially the tune Arroyo, Hi Supe')" selected by Astronaut Swanson's "Swany's" family. Airlock "depress" spacewalkers are Danny Olivas and Jim "JR" Reilly and they will be woken at 9:38AM.

The 17-ton truss structure is due to be attached to ISS starting at 11:08 AM EDT and the spacewalk is to begin at 2:53 PM EDT and will be using the Quest airlock.

The next scheduled Mission Status Briefing is scheduled for 11:00PM EDT tonight - this briefing should yield some new data about the blanket "lift" and any possible remediary actions contemplated.

Cheers,

Vic

[edit on 11-6-2007 by V Kaminski]

Great thread Vic, you'll get 5 stars from me for such an informative thread.
I've been reading it to keep track of this mission.


I wanted to go back to the foam shedding thing for a minute, and thought you may know.

Originally posted by V Kaminski
I suppose anythings possible. They are at an altitude of about 400000 feet or so at that point so foam is unlikely and any that does shed usually falls off much earlier in the ascent phase, most if not all foam loss occurs at, and slightly after, SRB Sep which happens about 6 minutes or so previous to the start of the video clip a little after T - plus 2:12.

Is it possible that the tank could still shed foam after separation due to bubbles or air pockets within the foam, and they pop out due to the difference in pressure from the ground to space.

Thanx
anx.......

Sure, I like that reasoning too anx'. Foam is layed down in layers and being foam has gas pockets... ideally these gas pockets or voids should be consistent and quite tiny. A larger void perhaps between BX foam layers or between the aluminum tank skin could and perhaps would result in thermal "sweat" lifts.

Once in orbit I would not expect the lack of air pressure to be anything other than a constant so any "lifts" or "separations" could be due to localized thermalling through the hot and cold cycle of the sunlight/dark.

I think the LH SRB down-facing camera will have more to add to this issue as was mentioned yesterday by Mission Manager John Shannon. That Shannon fellow is always impressive - "can you say smartest guy in the room?. The SRB footage will hopefully be released out of KSC today or out of Houston tonight at before the 11:00PM EDT Mission Briefing news conference.

Also, I've got a couple of "calls" out on the Oxygen Vent Pyro-propulsive tumble valve... all data I have so far indicates that it is almost right at the level of the lower edge of the ET nosecone which sort of conflicts with the notion of the OVPPT-valve as responisible for the "sprays" - the issue is still open but I'm workin' on it.

Thanx again anx' on the thread compliments and your participation.

Cheers,

Vic

PS. There are some tremndous shots of the 'Truss" placement right now on NASA-TV.

[edit on 11-6-2007 by V Kaminski]

At 1:26PM EDT June 11 2007 I saw something in STS-117/ISS mission coverage that appeared not to be of the ordinary. I saw what I think was two whitish ellpses that were between the earth and ISS/Atlantis. This hour's capture will be done in 20 or so minutes and I'll take a look and post anything of interest.

There have been some delays as a ISS non-propulsive Control Moment Gyro klaxon sounded at 12:20PM EDT. Apparently 4 CMG's became saturated and needed to reset with Atlantis in free drift mode... Atlantis can use RCS thrusters to compensate as is neccessary. The torque of moving the Truss structure 17 ton triggered a CMG saturation event.

Some of the shots are amazing! www.nasa.gov/tv

Some related links:

Canadarm 2 feature:
www.nasa.gov...

A photo of an ISS CMG from NASA:
images.ksc.nasa.gov...

The space walk is to begin at 2:53PM EDT if on schedule... just about an hour from now.

Cheers,

Vic

[edit on 11-6-2007 by V Kaminski]