The Most Dangerous Enemy of the 9/11 Truth Movement

The most dangerous enemy of the 9/11 Truth Movement are the ill-informed, misguided, non-critical thinking "sheeple" of the Truth Movement itself. These are the people who have spent little, if any time critically analyzing some of the far-fetched claims of the Truth Movement, and instead have only parroted these claims as if they were fact.

Think Rosie O'Donnell.

At the end of what would be O'Donnell's last appearance on "The View," she shouted out something ridiculous about WTC7 and how fire has never melted steel. Do you think she learned this in physics class, from her pal Madonna, or watching clips of "Loose Change" on YouTube?

She also vowed that she would get experts from Harvard on "The View" to explain to everybody the point she was trying to make. Instead, she never came back to the show, and experts from Harvard have yet to appear on "The View" to explain how fire can't melt steel, let alone how that is even relevant to any discussion about 9/11.

Now when people raise legitimate questions about 9/11 and the official story, the response is "You're a nutcase like Rosie O'Donnell."

I bring up Rosie O'Donnell only because she exemplifies what many who claim to be part of the "Truth Movement" have become. Instead of looking for the truth, many CTers begin and end by looking for ways to bash the U.S., Bush, Republicans, and necons with 9/11 truths, half-truths, speculations, and outright lies. At the same time stories, *real stories*, linking Democrats like Lee Hamilton, Jamie Gorelick, and Sandy Berger to a 9/11 cover-up go unmentioned.

Berger's admitted stealing and destruction of classified documents is substantial evidence of a cover-up; a woman standing in a hole at WTC1, put options, "pull it", and theories about micro-nukes and holograms are not.

So my suggestion would be that if you're interested in the "Truth Movement" gaining ANY credibility, you must be interested in the *TRUTH*, not just in "The Government Did It" movement. Otherwise the "Truth Movement" is going to continue to disintegrate into a footnote of history, taking it's place beside Area 51, the Loch Ness Monster, and Bigfoot in terms of relevance.

I would agree; but some of the lesser-known loonies that make the truth movement look like an early 1900's sideshow, that are easily accessible to the google nation, stunt the growth of the truth movement as well.

I'm sure the following list will be adamantly defended, though.

Jeff Rense
Believes the government orchestrated 9/11; also believes the Holocaust never happened.

Judy Wood
Believes the government orchestrated 9/11; also believes energy weaponry was used in the destruction of the twin towers.

Alex Jones
Believes the government orchestrated 9/11; also believes al-Qaeda/jihadi video releases controlled formerly by Rumsfeld, now solely manufactured by the pentagon.

The list can go on. What I am getting at is, the truth movement has seemingly no "normal" spokesman/woman. They would do themselves a great service by establishing a community that distinguishes its self from whack-jobs and makes a concerted effort to stick to the essentials. The rabid zeal will get you nowhere with the general public, or the "sheeple", as many of you so cleverly refer to them as. They are, after all, the ones that will take your best convincing.

the smoke was black, the fires reported as out, most of the fuel was spent in the fireball, the residual halted mostly, then wait, what s that i hear..explosions far after the original impact? Interesting. Now wait, I never would think the buildings would collapse, It looks like a warning style attack to me. But now we learn what, oh that aluminum no matter what speed vs finely woven steel that needs over 2500 in a blast furnace for a long time to melt, well certainly it wasnt that hot. and silverstein had the towers shut down and "serviced", or the coincidental relationship between bush's cousin and the security. I smell a rat somewhere, do you?

Your response has nothing to do with OP. What do you feel about the leadership of the truth movement? Do you feel you sentiment is adequately represented?

That, I believe, was part of the original point of the thread.

Lets us not forget:

Steven Jones: Terminated from BYU for his paper on thermate that was discredited by his peers.

Dylan Avery: College boy wanna-be that has tried and failed on three attempts to make a video that explains a 911 cover up. I guess the Final Cut is due out soon.

or

Les Jamieson Who was actually caught on video lying to people at ground zero.

Not anyone I would want representing me or my cause.

Retired Professor David R. Griffin, professor of Theology and one time leading proponent of process theology

So as such he would say that 9/11 was not fate nor punishment by God like Falwell did. But quite a leap to go from the event being planned to Bush planned it. I would like ask David R. Griffin what his opinion is on why many members of the Truth Movement practice prejudical terms to those that strongly oppose their ideas and dismiss out of hand presentation of information that is contrary to the theory that they present. Is it that information is factually incorrect or is there another reason that it reminds me of defense of a fundamental belief system?

I think he would give you a better answerto that than flat out asking if the Truth Movement is a cult.

Originally posted by mastermind77
the smoke was black, the fires reported as out, most of the fuel was spent in the fireball, the residual halted mostly, then wait, what s that i hear..explosions far after the original impact? Interesting. Now wait, I never would think the buildings would collapse, It looks like a warning style attack to me. But now we learn what, oh that aluminum no matter what speed vs finely woven steel that needs over 2500 in a blast furnace for a long time to melt, well certainly it wasnt that hot. and silverstein had the towers shut down and "serviced", or the coincidental relationship between bush's cousin and the security. I smell a rat somewhere, do you?

I agree that is off topic but I will discuss it anyways:

Smoke from plastic is black, smoke from synthetic carpets are black, smoke from aluminum is white, smoke from sulfur is yellow...many reporters said the black smoke is from oxygen depleted fires...many graduating journalist have no clue who Mao Tse-tung is either.

There is a bit of rambling but Bush's cousin as security...I a guy that worked there that was out of the office to take his girlfriend to a doctor's appointment. He happens to be the nephew of John Carlos, does that mean that he recieved a warning from somewhere or some group to not be there? If you really want me to call him and ask I'll record his laughter for you.

Originally posted by PartChimp
Your response has nothing to do with OP. What do you feel about the leadership of the truth movement? Do you feel you sentiment is adequately represented?

That, I believe, was part of the original point of the thread.

Actually you raise a good point that wasn't part of my original thoughts on this. I didn't take into account the other half of the problem -that is the self-proclaimed gurus who start the misinformation to begin with. I was thinking of Rosie O'Donnell more as a follower, not a leader. It's the leaders who come up with the things like fire doesn't melt steel arguments.

But by stating what you have done already, you have just become a "self proclaimed guru" yourself..

I recognise the truth movement has been co-opted. It was like this BEFORE 9/11 even happened! You think "they" would not have planned ahead, planned for all outcomes?

They know that no matter how good they can pull off a stunt, there will ALWAYS be one person at least who sees the truth, who sees through the illusion. They can not prevent this. But they can mislead and distract you with theories.

A good example is Jones and Jones, with the thermite/ate theory. It is nothing more than damage control, designed to buy the real criminals some time. The whole MOLTEN METAL thing... that kind of evidence does not go away, and more videos/people are surfacing as testimony to the fact. What can they do to comfort people who have realised there is molten metal where it shouldn't be? Mislead them with a hypothesis that is plausible, but easily shot down with the revealing of one piece of information...


Its all a learning process. Some people need to make mistakes, to be lied too twice, and believe it both times, in order to make them stronger in the end. Thats why its important to have respect for anyone who is seeking the truth.. at least they recognise the fact something is wrong with 9/11, and they are shouting about it.

The bigger problem facing the truth movement is getting those who normally laugh at CTers to take them seriously for 5 minutes.

Whilst Rosie may not be helping the wider public image, the point remains that we need to get these people looking at this differently (i.e. not from the "Official Story" perspective, even if it is just for 5 ms).

To do this requires something incredible simple that anyone can understand, and doesn't require an hours lecture to explain. I think once this can be achieved, then the bigger and more complex areas can be rolled out.

Rosie had the right idea, but the wrong execution.

Take Flight 93. It crashes. There is no wreckage. We're told it is totally destroyed by fire, yet now they're holding pieces of it in secure storage?

The WTC. Several crimes were committed in clearing up a crash site and a crime scene. Has no-one realized this???????????? Within days, the remains are being shipped off to China for recycling.

[edit on 2-6-2007 by mirageofdeceit]

[edit on 2-6-2007 by mirageofdeceit]

Originally posted by mirageofdeceit
To do this requires something incredible simple that anyone can understand, and doesn't require an hours lecture to explain. I think once this can be achieved, then the bigger and more complex areas can be rolled out.

All that's needed are the videos of WTC7 to be shown. Unfortunately, by the time the mainstream media shows WTC7, the public perception is going to be already poisoned.

Don't underestime how much of a setback the Rosie O'Donnell incident has become. I listen to a lot of different talk radio stations, and O'Donnell has in fact created a stir about 9/11 conspiracies. But the stir is in the wrong direction. Now 9/11 conspiracy theories, including WTC7, are being dismissed out of hand and anybody who even mentions them are being labeled instantly as nut cases.

This is what the CTers need to be aware of. It's like a trap, whether set intentionally or not. The more CTers make uneducated and ill-informed commentary about 9/11, the more it's feeding into the "Destroy the Truth Movement" campaign.

Originally posted by mastermind77
the smoke was black, the fires reported as out, most of the fuel was spent in the fireball, the residual halted mostly, then wait, what s that i hear..explosions far after the original impact? Interesting. Now wait, I never would think the buildings would collapse, It looks like a warning style attack to me. But now we learn what, oh that aluminum no matter what speed vs finely woven steel that needs over 2500 in a blast furnace for a long time to melt, well certainly it wasnt that hot. and silverstein had the towers shut down and "serviced", or the coincidental relationship between bush's cousin and the security. I smell a rat somewhere, do you?

This illustrates the OP perfectly. Thank you for that half-understood bastardized regurgitation of previous half-truths and unsubstantiated opinion. I'll bet $$ you didn't learn all that from your scientific education in a University. Not that you're right or wrong, that's beside the point.

Here's the thing: The human mind is fallible, and so we can never know "The Truth" in all its glory. We can see eividence and make our best guesses, but so many are content to let others do that for them without wondering if they're being led astray. Truth is therefore a road, not a destination. Yet so many insist they've reached the non-existent destination and just need to hand out more copies of 9/11 Mysteries and be more loud about it to get others over to their little hill - that's about to be dozed under for the new "Truthers had it all wrong" condominiums, housing for the New American Century. I indeed smell a rat, thousands in fact, and the "truth" movement is more infested than anywhere else. As should be expected if you think about it.

Great thread, Nick!
We have seen the enemy and the enmy is us.

Originally posted by Caustic Logic

This illustrates the OP perfectly. Thank you for that half-understood bastardized regurgitation of previous half-truths and unsubstantiated opinion. I'll bet $$ you didn't learn all that from your scientific education in a University. Not that you're right or wrong, that's beside the point.

Yeah.... what he said.

Here's the thing: The human mind is fallible, and so we can never know "The Truth" in all its glory. We can see eividence and make our best guesses, but so many are content to let others do that for them without wondering if they're being led astray. Truth is therefore a road, not a destination. Yet so many insist they've reached the non-existent destination and just need to hand out more copies of 9/11 Mysteries and be more loud about it to get others over to their little hill - that's about to be dozed under for the new "Truthers had it all wrong" condominiums, housing for the New American Century. I indeed smell a rat, thousands in fact, and the "truth" movement is more infested than anywhere else. As should be expected if you think about it.

Great thread, Nick!
We have seen the enemy and the enmy is us.

Thanks. Observing the real world that exists outside of ATS and the the other CT sites, 99% of the people believe CTers are completely nuts. Why? Because 99% of the gargabe about 9/11 that they sprew is not only stupid, but it's built on a foundation of ignorance and hatred of the Bush administration. There is little, if any, science behind most of the "evidence."

Compare this to the JFK assassination, where prominent people like Cyril Wecht spoke out against the Warren Commission from a well-edecutated, well founded scientific background. People listened to Wecht because the points he made were valid, and could be backed up.

What's really ironic is if there was a 9/11 conspiracy, then it would stand to reason that the conspirators might have been smart enough to make sure they had a post 9/11 plan as well. And surely part of this plan would have been to win the psychological war to discredit anybody who suspected them. And what better way to win this war than too spread easily debunkable disinformation to their opponents who aren't smart enough to realize that it's disinformation.

It's almost impossible to discuss topic this without the image of Rosie O'Donnell screaming "fire never melted steel!" popping into my head.

[edit on 3-6-2007 by nick7261]

Originally posted by PartChimp
The list can go on. What I am getting at is, the truth movement has seemingly no "normal" spokesman/woman. They would do themselves a great service by establishing a community that distinguishes its self from whack-jobs and makes a concerted effort to stick to the essentials. The rabid zeal will get you nowhere with the general public, or the "sheeple", as many of you so cleverly refer to them as. They are, after all, the ones that will take your best convincing.

I think these people should stay away from a centralized commuity of truthers. Once there is organization like that, it will open the door for disinfo IMO.

I'm not a big fan of Rense, but Alex Jones has made some great films. Terrorstorm is a good one, just a history lesson of government sponsored terror acts. Unlike Rense, he uses actual government documents to back his claims (90% of the time). Jones never calls people "sheeple" (I hate that word!!) and always lets people who disagree with him go to the front of the phone lines on his show. I always hear people diss him on ats, I would like them to call him up and debate with him on air, but people very rarely disagree. He seems the most sincere and on the ball. Try getting on Oreilly's show if you tell them you disagree, they will hang up on you.

As for the generall public, I don't think they need convincing of the actual facts so much as a convincing of the possibility that government can and has participated in such attacks. Once people learn how things like this have been going on for thousands of years, the 911 truth pill wont be so hard to swallow.

Will there be a "credible" voice EVER heard?

The list of truthers goes on and on. The truth movement has become the flavor of the week for many internet entrepreneurs. The internet is flooded with everyone and their brother trying to get a piece of the "Conspiracy Pie". The problem lies in that not a soul that runs these websites has anyone of value backing their claims. I went on a new site the other day that was started by engineers and architects.... and one of the memebers was Heywood J. Blowmee.(i did laugh!) I mean how will that site EVERY get to the facts. I decided that I would sign up anyway to see what might be discussed. (the forums are all closed now due to spamming etc.) The notes that were given on this site NOW state that .."the debate is over". Their forums will no longer have discussions or debates. What will this site be? A pack of truthers blowing smoke up each others as*?

Alex Jones has diareah of the mouth. His rants are baseless for the most part, and to be quite honest, when he is confronted with a tough question, he grabs his megaphone and starts shouting "911 was an inside job" I've see it. I've see his website state that the FDNY was "in on it". He shouted at Marines at Ground Zero. (the just walked away) Don't forget what Jones said on his radio show....

They're preparing for new terrorist attacks that are much larger. & they're planning to bring in foreign armies....The U.S. government is going to engage in large terrorist attacks domestically & probably internationally...They may kill millions of Americans

Anyone want to talk about Judy Wood?? (jk)

Originally posted by CaptainObvious

Alex Jones has diareah of the mouth.... I've see his website state that the FDNY was "in on it".

Please provide a link to that story.

Don't forget what Jones said on his radio show....

They're preparing for new terrorist attacks that are much larger. & they're planning to bring in foreign armies....The U.S. government is going to engage in large terrorist attacks domestically & probably internationally...They may kill millions of Americans

I keep a file of Jones' podcasts, so tell me what date he said this so i can verify this info.

I think it's clear that Nico Haupt if it truely is him posting as 'bsregistration' as it's being suspected is not exacatly helping the movement.

But hey innocent until proven guilty!!!!

[edit on 3-6-2007 by SR]

I JUST RECENTLY BOUGHT A GRILL FROM WALLMART THAT WAS MADE FROM RECYCLE'ED STEEL FROM THE WORLD TRADE CENTER...AS MY WIENERS AND STEAKS WERE SIZZLEING FINE DAMNN'ED IF THE GRILL DIDNT JUST MELT FROM BENEATH THEM..AND I MEAN MELT..WIENERS AND STEAKS ALL ON THE GROUND IN A PUDDLE OF MOLTIN METAL!...DAMN! SHOULD I PICK THEM UP AND SAY WHAT THE HEY! DINNERS SERVED! OR TRUTH BE TOLD I DONT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED JUST NOW ...THE REAL TRUTH IS TWO 110 STORY BUILDINGS VAPORIZED ON T.V. RIGHT BEFORE YOUR EYES...WANNA TALK ABOUT THAT FOR A NEW YORK MIN???????


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[edit on 3-6-2007 by 12m8keall2c]

The most dangerous enemy of the 911 truth movement,

The official story.

Enemy Numero Uno of the truth movement — a closed mind.

Greetings,
The Wizard In The Woods