Originally posted by instrumentalitycant you for one moment think that the us government is just SAYING they FOILED (sounds like batman) another terror plot......

BAMM!!!.....WHAAACK!.....POW!

Tune in tomorrow (tommorrow for Hillary supporters)...same Bat time...same Bat channel.

Originally posted by sdrawkcab
One question I ask myself; Why are so many of these large plots against the US? Something's very interesting about that.
Apparently, the US has done somebodies something...or it's just a nation that all want to see fall. Whatever the reason...it's interesting to know exactly why.

Yes, there are many who would love to see the US fall. Including many here on ATS.

So many claims that this event has been staged. So little proof. But it's so fashionable to badmouth our country.

As I said, if you stick with that argument, then you can't lose:

If the government foils a plot, it was just a propaganda move to instill fear.

If a terror plot succeeds, it was a government plot to instill fear.

Either way, you can't lose, eh? Except that you (collective you) are not doing yourself any good by staying stuck in the rut of lazy thinking and intellectual dishonesty.

The only good thing is, you'll never walk alone down there, among the masses.

I understand what you are saying^, and it is right...but up to a point.

Is a terrorist attck such as that possible? Very!

But, all the controversy surrounding the 9/11 talks...and with evidence pointing to the US government...we can't blame some of the public for pointing fingers at the government. They haven't given us any reason to believe them.

I'm not saying the US government is behind it...I'm simply saying we only know what they tell us.

[edit on 3-6-2007 by sdrawkcab]

All's quiet on the terrorist front, people start to relax, resume normal lives, resistance to the erosion of human rights grows. Then, almost on cue, we get a threat video from a home-grown "terrorist supporter" followed closely by the foiling of an alleged plot.

Fear rises, anger rises, confidence in the PTB rises and some more anti-rights legislation gets slipped onto the books.

Have you read "1984" lately?

If we really care about these claims of terror plots then it is our responsibility to investigate them. I'm impressed at how quickly members have posted regarding the South American connection, you guys beat me to it.

An impossible attack, hatched by a disgruntled patsy. The group is suspected to have ties with a group in Trinidad and Tobago. Right off the coast of Venezuela, home of Hugo Chavez, home of vast oil reserves. The CIA staged a coup against him in 2002. There is civil unrest in Venezuela right now where members of the media have been caught falsely reporting violence by government supporters against dissenters.

Then we find that the pipeline had Carlyle ties.

We're on the right track, and I must say that ATS members are getting really good at gathering their own intelligence.

Am I the only one who thinks it is damn strange that ever so often the "Government foils a major terror plot"?

IT seems to me to be a show. If there were all these terrorists in the country, it seems they could act any time they wanted.

The propaganda is that this administration is so good a thwarting terrorist attacks. I think this is not true. This administration has made so many errors that it is a miserable failure.

I dont want no people in America hurt by terrorists, but I do not believe that these "foiled plans" are really that. I believe it is propaganda put out to feed the sheep like people of America.

This is in some way suppose to give one faith in this governments ability to protect Americans.. Hell, we cant even close the border or give a accurate count to the number of illegal people in America, and they expect people to believe they are the reason no terrorist activity has taken place since Bush focused on it.

I think not

If the Bush administration acted with greater credibility and with what we percieved as better motives, we wouldn't be having this conversation. We question their credibility, and we we question their motives. On the survace, it sems like they can't do anyting good because we question what goes on under the table.

That's not rhetoric. This administration has acted with high-handed arrogance and badly executed secrecy for a long time. It doesn't help when the President is a poor communicator. In the past, our Presidents have said what they were going to do, and then they did it with our without public support. it bothers us a lot when Bush43 goes and does without saying. That's the real source of our grief.

Originally posted by Ahabstar
We still have that presumed innocent in trials thing that bears the burden of proof to the accusers and not the accused.

Someone must have slept through that whole Patriot Act thing.

I'll stand byw hat I have already said. Politicians have no trouble using a strong of actual non-staged events for their own twisted purposes. the sad fact is that they have to make up very little. Law enforcement success can be harnessed for dark purposes just like anything else.

Originally posted by Justin Oldham
If the Bush administration acted with greater credibility and with what we percieved as better motives, we wouldn't be having this conversation. We question their credibility, and we we question their motives. On the survace, it sems like they can't do anyting good because we question what goes on under the table.

That's not rhetoric. This administration has acted with high-handed arrogance and badly executed secrecy for a long time. It doesn't help when the President is a poor communicator. In the past, our Presidents have said what they were going to do, and then they did it with our without public support. it bothers us a lot when Bush43 goes and does without saying. That's the real source of our grief.

This illustrates yet another danger of group-think: the umbrella principle.

Bush is president, i'e', the "government." Bush has made some mistakes during his terms. Therefore, some here do not trust Bush.

The agents that busted up this plot were feds. Therefore they are not to be trusted.

The main point here is not whether you trust Bush; the point here is whether you fall into the guilt by association trap.

A federal agent, a staff member, a petty bureaucrat, anyone associated with the government can do or say something, and you (collective you) immediately place the blame at Bush's feet.

Originally posted by Justin Oldham

Originally posted by FlyersFan
This isn't fear mongering. It's very serious.

As real as this is, let's not forget that we run the risk of having our leaders hype this and other events like it to justify more of what they already plan on doing to us. By the time we the '08 primaries roll around, the media will have reported on enough of these instances 'encourage' the candidates to one-up each other in terms of who will do the most to protect us. Let's not forget that some of that protection will come in the form of reductions in our civil liberties.

Like it or not, trans-national terrorism has come to America. It will test our mettle as a nation, and our character as a people. Our challnege is two fold. To beat the terrorists and to avoid being opressed by our own government. I'n not the only one to warn of this. You can go back atleast four years on ATS to see that a lot of people have seen this coming.

Now that its here, we've got to deal with it. Our leaders gain too much from this unfortunate turn of events while we suffer. If we don't aspire to higher ideals and standards of conduct on our own, we will not survive. "They" won't save us. That task falls to us. If we don't have the unity of purpose it takes to get the job done, it'll be our own fault.

Well said JustinI dont know wmom i should be distrusting most,the terrorists or our governments"anti-terrorist"actions.How sad for me as an american to say that!If the bush new world order comes to fruition i shall glady die fighting it instead of the humiliation of living under it.

Originally posted by Xfile
I dont know wmom i should be distrusting most,the terrorists or our governments"anti-terrorist"actions.How sad for me as an american to say that!If the bush new world order comes to fruition i shall glady die fighting it instead of the humiliation of living under it.

At the risk of losing my umbrella AND my membership in the groupthink coalition, let me point out one obvious thing. We should be grateful that we have anti-terrorist capablities, and we should be glad they are being used successfully. We should also beware of politicians who seek to use that capability and the successes it generates to con us in to giving them more power.

A hunded good people can do a hundred good things, and it only takes one creative mind in a position of high authority to string all those good deeds together to form a line of reason that amounts to a single clever con. If I'm a bad man for knowing that, so be it.

It's amazing how this immigration bill that had people in every state pissed and calling senators just managed to up vanish...

Those who think this was a trumped up event might be on to something...Guys if you look back for the last 7 years now everytime some thing has gotten the feathers of the people ruffled...Some terror plot manages to get "stop/intercepted" what ever. All I know is last week all the talk radio shows were blasting the president on this immigration bill and senators and congress men were all getting ear fulls from the people. Now nothing...Just like that a terror threat and nothing...more from the hottest topic in years immigration. These clowns who could have been nothing but a buncha pissed off Bush haters. The Administarion could have very well seen this as a shield fom some of the immigration heat. I mean these guys don't have a prayer of fighting this.

They are now labled terrorist by the state and the Administration can pile on and make this into a terror plot. Imo this is just smoke and mirrors to buy time for some changes to be put into the immigration bill so that the American people will stay off Washingtons back. Mis-direction play the bushes have this tied to terror every time a issues that needs to get heat off is pulled out. I'm sorry I wish I saw this different.

Originally posted by jsobecky
A federal agent, a staff member, a petty bureaucrat, anyone associated with the government can do or say something, and you (collective you) immediately place the blame at Bush's feet.

Same can be said about the other side also. If you question the government's theory of what happened at 9/11, you are automatically placed into the micro nuke, no planes, hollogram, Rosie O', etc. You get my point.

I am actually agreeing with you though.

Again, I risk my umbrella and status as a valued group thinker, but I'd like to point out another obvious thing. Law enforcement has used criminals for a very long time to act as snitches to gain access to nerfarious plots. I'm guesing that these fools were shoting off their big mouths and they got "overheard" by somebody who passed on to his handler. Was the snitches coerced in to doing this infiltration? You bet.

Originally posted by DraconianKing
Guyana is right next to Venezuela so maybe Bush wants to surround Venezuela like he has done to Iran. Have an attack and trace the terrorists back to Guyana and then fake some documents or something to get us into Colombia. Colombia is good for oil and drugs so it will be like Afghanistan and Iraq all over again. Controlling both Guyana and Colombia will be useful if we are going to control Venezuela and the rest of South America. The Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation, formerly known as The School of The America's, has trained many terrorists to go and mess up South America so it is definitely ripe for the picking.

very interesting point and one I would suggest that others give consideration to. This is not the first time that Guyana has come up with "terrorist connections". There was an Al Qaeda member who was being searched for in Guyana and Latin America a few years back. (I wrote about it in ATSNN back then but couldnt' find it to link here) The US government has always had some sort of interest and involvement in Guyana going all the way back to the Cold War era, being that it is the only English speaking country in south America which is strategically located on the coast, with river access and of course next door to venezuela. Bases in Guyana would be greatly beneficial to the US in the Western hemisphere not only in the war on terror but also in the war on drugs...

..and being that most of the Guyanese population has relatives in the US and are all striving to come here anyways, I think US involvement would be welcomed there.