If the US falls

What country would take over the united states / world if the USA ceased to function as a society / country? What do you think would happen? What type of storm would rush to fill the vacuum?

I am very excited to here some of your speculations here!

Me? I don't really know, maybe something involving China or Russia, I wonder what would happen... I guess it would be very interesting.

-SB

[edit on 1-6-2007 by sobolwolf]

I don't think any specific country will assume power here, but, I think the U.N. just might. If anything, I fear the U.N.

My $0.02
Cuhail

i know for a fact that mexico would rush in and atleast attempt to take back new mex ((god i love my state)) texas arizona canada being face with a refugee crisis would attempt to put the northern state under some kind of martial law but i believe for the most part the people of the us would form there own goverments and we would be in sort of a neo feudal era with regional warlords much like africe

If the US Government should collapse I think the US would break into 4 or 5 countries.

Southwest joining Mexico possibly
elite Eastern Establishment in the Northest
Evangelicals and Conservatives in the Southeast
Moderate Midwest and Great plains
extreme liberal west coast
Hawaii would go independant as would the Pacific Territories
Puerto Rico would go independant also

would be bad for other countries to try and intervene cost wouldnt be worth it for other countries



]

[edit on 6/1/2007 by DarkStormCrow]

certain orgonizations ((the hells angels ms-13, the aryan brotherhood, la eme*the mexican mafia*)) would also attempt to rule over cities maybe even staates that the have a large presence in mos of los angeles would become a war zone and lets not forget just because the goverments gone the military would still be here and wouldnt be under any supervision who knows what would happenn but it wouldnt be good espescially since we live in such a violent country to begin with i agree with crow but i think that would be the end result of a period of assimilation

I honestly believe that my state of Washington would split in two. We have had bills in our state's congress on splitting the state at the Cascades. I would believe that western Washington would combine with Canada, or possibly have Vancover Island, and Vancover BC become a territory/state. It'd be kinda cool, since our cultures are so much alike.

Awesome thread idea!



-Droops

[edit on 1-6-2007 by DrOOpieS]

From what I can see, America is already a fractured country; I think it would probably break up into several smaller, independent 'countries', with maybe some of the border regions merging with Canada/Mexico.

there'd probably also be some grey area that was more or less just like another poster said, warlord type regimes holding small territories and fighting eachother.

but it also depends on HOW the country folded, too, because if it was a nuclear holocaust or something similar, it would be different than if there was some kind of a government-shattering coup without a strong leadership stepping in afterwards.

Well if that's really gonna happen then the only way out is through the intergration as one of the U.S,Canada, and Mexico as the North American Union.

The Dollar has been weakened by the Euro, and the economy is dwindling,
So apparently the US believes that a war with Iran is their last hope.
But major players, who as i write this, are meeting in Turkey for the Bilderberg 2007 conference are about to tell the US, war with Iran is a no go.

quote

...Iran, overnight has become America's last hope in the energy war.

Iran war, after two years of huffing and puffing by the Bush government is definitely off the table. Furthermore, with France, Russia, Japan and China investing heavily in Iran, the world has drawn a line in the sand and the U.S. will be told at the conference not to cross it. There is blood in the water, and blood in the water usually leads to a good fight.

So that's some of what will be discussed at the meeting this year, I'm sure the NAU will also be heavily discussed.It makes sense the way they have to approach it, Im sure not all of you will agree about the way to fix the fall of the US, but powerful individuals with agenda's and pockets to fill really don't care.

here's alink to Insider Daniel estulin's Bilderberg attendees and oversight information.


www.danielestulin.com...

It really is difficult to say what exactly would happen. Personally I think that
DarkStormCrow may be on to something. There's a good chance that the US would split into different nations for a time, although I can imagine that eventually the US would reunite, it's part of our culture to remain united. Just a matter of how long, and it's entirely possible that it would be like how the US was in the early days. Mostly just a loose confederation of state governments with a weak federal government, kind of the opposite of the UK.

I can imagine that New England would be it's own nation, and probably the best off depending on the circumstances. If this were a nuclear scenario they might not be too well off, but assuming the infrastructure was there New England would be very successful. This due to the fact that several major cities are already there. However I can almost guarantee fighting with the southern states of the Washington D.C. area. Another possibility is that NATO would take control of this area in an effort to get the US back on it's feet. It'd be downright ironic once the British forces came ashore (nothing against our British friends of course, we still love you guys). Although I'm not entirely sure the state of Vermont would be too happy about NATO occupying the area. My bets on capitals are Boston and New York.

It's almost certain that the Confederacy would rise again if the US federal government were to fall. I'm guessing it would essentially be the Confederacy of our civil war, only it'd probably stop at the Mississippi river. Assuming that the US military wasn't decimated in the catastrophe that brought down the federal government, I can tell for certain that the Confederacy would inherit a lot and would thus be extremely powerful. I could easily imagine Richmond or Atlanta as the capital of this new confederacy.

The Washington D.C. area would certainly be one of intense conflict between the north and the south. Sure there's the possibility of a peaceful agreement being worked out, but I can easily see the pride of each side preventing such a thing. It's a difficult call as to who would win. On the northern side we'd probably see NATO support, on the southern side we'd see a very substantial amount of US military hardware and manpower being inherited. Essentially it'd be a strong portion of the US military vs. a smaller portion and NATO forces.

The Midwest and great plains would probably end up as a pretty moderate conservative state of immense agricultural power. In terms of industry still left in the US, and farmland, the Midwest could quite possibly be the economic powerhouse of the new America. In terms of military power, my bets are on significant conventional power overall, but wouldn't be nearly as much as some of the others when you take military unit per acre into acount. Thus it's very possible that the Midwest would be stretched thin in a defensive war. With access to the Mississippi and the Atlantic via the Great Lakes, I can imagine the Midwest being the top dog in the economy. My bets are on a strong alliance with Canada for support, and almost certainly Chicago as capital.

The Southwest would probably come under immediate attack by Mexico. Los Angeles and San Diego would probably become some of the hottest urban combat zones in history, quite possibly making Baghdad look like nothing. Although to be honest I can't really imagine Mexico accomplishing a complete victory. In the end it comes down to how all the immigrants down there feel, but I can imagine that many of them are fed up with the Mexican government enough to want to support their new homeland. Hopefully. I can see California possibly putting up a successful defense and becoming either an independent state until splitting in half. I figure California would probably split somewhere just south of San Francisco. The northern half merging with the rest of the Pacific Northwest and the Southern half remaining with the southwest if Mexico is completely defeated.

No doubt that Texas would be invaded along with the rest of the southwest, yet I can see Texas winning. Let's face it, it'd take a ton of military support to successfully invade, much less occupy Texas. More military power than Mexico has, a lot more. My bets are on Texas becoming an independent nation of it's own right with a ton of military and significant economic power.

The Pacific Northwest I can see as being a pretty laid back liberal nation. Economically it'd probably do fairly well, but it'd lack a lot of military power. This could either be good as they'll either not need a military at all, or bad because of a possible Chinese or Russian invasion. If not then good for them, I can even see a possible induction into Canada, a strong alliance at the least.

Then of course there's Alaska, Hawaii, and those other Pacific territories.. I figure that Hawaii and the rest of the Pacific will either go independent, or become the property of either Japan (I'll explain that later) or China. Or the third possibility that NATO will request that Australia and New Zealand take good care of our Pacific territories until things get worked out. Alaska I really doubt would keep independence for long. I figure that they'll either join in with Canada, or Russia will take it. It really all comes down to how much NATO is willing to try and keep under control. At this point NATO is going to be stretched thin, yet they can't deny the massive oil supplies. Of course with that oil it just means that everyone will want a piece, thus making it possible that Alaska will be a significant conflict zone.

Finally there's going to be a significant impact on world affairs. Without the US it's going to be a power vacuum, which will probably lead to the rise of three major powers. Russia, China, and the European Union (operating under NATO early on before the EU militarizes).

I can imagine that Japan is going to definably militarize if the US goes under. The only reason they keep their military the size it does (considering their proximity to China and N. Korea) is because they've got the US protecting them. With the US they'll almost surely have to amend the constitution and begin a buildup of military forces, possibly even going imperial again (hence my earlier prediction of a possible invasion of Hawaii).


Overall this has been an extremely thought provoking thread and I'll continue to ponder the idea.

The US will not fall in the sense of the word, the NAU is on the cards and has been for some time and this is the next logical step in the process. The EU, NAU and FEU like it or not are the larger pieces of the jigsaw that will eventually slot together to form the one world goal.

Will America still be ruled by Americans, in the short term yes, long term no tis the same with the EU. Will Americans care, some will but most wont, there are many advantages of joining together and few disadvantages.

The puppet masters are already in effective control of the globe. Certainly via economic systems. But also through UFO technology etc and other war making skills, structures, mechanisms . . .

They are king makers in all the major countries of the planet.

I suspect they will use Russia and China to trash the USA as a quicker, easier route to the overt global government. But there are likely a few scenarios they could take to that goal.

At the rate they are going, one term of a raging Marxist, globalist Shrillery Presidency would probably be enough to make the USA Constitution a thoroughly shredded has-been; personal freedoms a la the Bill of Rights a mere memory; disposable untaxed income a thing of the past; etc. etc. etc.

I guess the short answer is that the next major shift is to an overt global government that is already ruling form the shadows.

There may be a world war between here and there. There may be 'merely' an incremental frog in the bucket 'advancement' toward that state.

I'd say it depends on who gets ownership on the military areas.

Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
If the US Government should collapse I think the US would break into 4 or 5 countries.

Southwest joining Mexico possibly
elite Eastern Establishment in the Northest
Evangelicals and Conservatives in the Southeast
Moderate Midwest and Great plains
extreme liberal west coast
Hawaii would go independant as would the Pacific Territories
Puerto Rico would go independant also

would be bad for other countries to try and intervene cost wouldnt be worth it for other countries

A very interesting point,

I don't think it would break up into 5, but likely 3. You would have the Union and Confederacy, maybe the third nation would be a Latino nation in the South West.

I do think its VERY likely that the United States could break up into two nations, very possible. I've read many articles and theories on the idea of it. It's certainly not unrealistic. Especially when the US declines as a superpower.

[edit on 2-6-2007 by infinite]

There will be no North vs South or anything like that. If it happens, it won't break along states lines, for the most part. The fracture will be of the conservative rural areas breaking away from the more liberal cities. It takes little more than a quick glance at a county-by-county election map of the US to see this ideological divide:

www.princeton.edu...

The wildcard would be the Southwest, with its influx of immigrants from Mexico and how that situation would play out.

I don't think it would break up into 5, but likely 3. You would have the Union and Confederacy, maybe the third nation would be a Latino nation in the South West.

The most convincing I've read . . . has Russian forces controlling the East coast toward the Mid-West with Chinese forces and Mexican forces under them controlling the West coast Toward the Mountain states . . . with various pockets under various factions etc. . . .

Dumitru Duduman "saw" in his dreams and visions A Chinese general ordering the death of all Californians . . . and bulldozers pushing folks into mass graves. . . until he was assassinated in San Francisco. . . . also Russia doing the same in Alaska.

Supposedly much of the MidWest and maybe some Mountain States areas were relatively "free" until Christians in the Chinese Army began to fight with the Americans and help take back our country. It was not clear where in the other END TIMES prophecy schedule this was to take place.

. . . along state lines . . .

I think it at least or more likely that the 30% liberals, hedonists, globalists will fight their neighbors right and left . . . brother against brother . . .

I can't imagine a pretty picture.

But statelines would be one possibility to some degree. Especially where State militias were cohesive and took things seriously.

Thx for the link.

Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
If the US Government should collapse I think the US would break into 4 or 5 countries.

Southwest joining Mexico possibly
elite Eastern Establishment in the Northest
Evangelicals and Conservatives in the Southeast
Moderate Midwest and Great plains
extreme liberal west coast
Hawaii would go independant as would the Pacific Territories
Puerto Rico would go independant also

would be bad for other countries to try and intervene cost wouldnt be worth it for other countries



]

[edit on 6/1/2007 by DarkStormCrow]

Yeh because either way, we still have the nukes.

SLOVAKIA is the next world superpower!!!

better prepare for mandatory all night parties!

Cyberdude that was one of the best, well thought out analogies I have read in awhile. The Midwest would definately become the powerhouse with the agriculture, industrial and conventional (and nuclear) military mostly falling in their border of geographic region. The only rub about the Midwest is it is a very large area and has different views and old rivalries that may splinter it.

Factions could develop at every bording parts of the states. If it reminded united I would see the capitol being either Chicago, Minneapolis/St. Paul, St. Louis or possibly Cincinnati (more strategic reasons than anything). Joining the Midwest would be WV, western PA, northern KY, northern OK (maybe--the people are very similar in mind with MO). States leaving might be NE, ND, SD, WY, IA unless CO joined then Denver may become the capitol for strategic reasons as well. The original CSA capitol was Atlanta and was moved to Richmond, VA as a thank you for finally joining.

Texas as an independent is very realistic and the Midwest would give aid if asked. Texas might also bring in OK, NM, LA, and AR under its sphere of influence or just join with the new CSA to have a line of states to rival the Midwest.

California would stand alone and be in constant battle for control with internal civil wars divided on racial and political lines.

Maryland would join with the New England states and with eastern PA be the bulk of agriculture but would be unable to produce enough for demand unless NYC was not part of the equation. Given that most of the people in NE don't really care for NYC and the infighting for control of the city (think LA) unless of course NYC was just a smoking hole. New England may become part of the Midwest Coalition by treaty for goods and protection or just as a response to Texas and the CSA. Or might join with the CSA to counter the Midwest's power despite different ideologies.

This leaves WA, OR, AK which might just end up with Canada. Hawaii might help California due to dependence on goods and service to the mainland. CA and HI would be one heck of a Navial power to overcome for any country with the exception of the new CSA with VA and FL which would annex Annapolis, MD into the CSA.

Utah and the Rocky Mtn states would either join together, join factions or just remain independent.

Eventually all factions would work together to suppress outside influences and reform into the new USA, give or take a state or two.

But for the time Midwest would control most of everything but lumber as far a resources go. New England would control most imports/exports except for the gulf areas which would be CSA/Texas controlled. The CSA would control 1/3 of the lumber leaving Rockies and PacificNW to the 2/3.

Things would be interesting especially in the Midwest as they would be area most prone to splintering into smaller groups of states. Control of the Great Lakes could be done by any state especially MI, OH, PA and NY but Montreal and Quebec would be the real problem as they could easily shut down the St Lawrence from the Midwest.

[edit on 2-6-2007 by Ahabstar]

I dont think that any country could take over the United States. It's like almost impossible. If we ever got weakened to the point where we couldn't run things on a global scale, then I think they would go to a policy of isolationism, just like after World War I. Then there would more than likely be a depression due to the shock of trade loss. However I don't see the US getting ruled by a foreign force. We just won't be the huge superpower that we are now.