[Edited on 15-1-2004 by darkwraith]

[Edited on 15-1-2004 by darkwraith]

I truly fear for the future of my home. What I cannot understand is our willingness to give up the rights our fore fathers fought and died to give us. It is truely sad.

I still say the libertarian party is our only hope

You have the FREEDOM to vote.
You have the FREEDOM of choice.
You have the FREEDOM to complain.
You have the FREEDOM to think.
You have the FREEDOM of religion.
You have the FREEDOM to make decisions.
You have the FREEDOM to do quite alot of things that some can merely think on or dream of.
You have the FREEDOM to ponder if indeed you are truly FREE.
And you definitely have the FREEDOM to move.....


I think Robert Solomon pretty well sums it up: "The thesis of absolute freedom is not the nonsensical claim that one can do anything that one chooses to do, but rather the negative claim that one is never in a position such that one cannot choose and is not responsible for what one does." ----- Solomon, Robert C. Introducing Philosophy: A Text with Integrated readings. 6th Ed

[Edited on 5-1-2004 by Seekerof]

[Edited on 15-1-2004 by darkwraith]

How about a break with the caps darkwraith!

Yes...I definitely don't know what FREEDOM is. Could you be so kind and polite enough to explain just what FREEDOM is and how it applies in the good ole' United States?


regards
seekerof

[Edited on 5-1-2004 by Seekerof]

For some of us, it doesn't matter what choices we are 'allowed' to make because true freedom is unattainable in a life filled with corruption.

"Freedom is a state of mind", Corporate Avenger

[Edited on 15-1-2004 by darkwraith]

Uh...bull #. Even the most crazy estimates don't put civilian casualties above 10,000. You're saying they're 6 times that high. Why not use all that energy of hating Bush and the government to positive use and finding factual reasons to dislike them

I can't remember who exactly said it right after 9/11 but they more or less to the affect that the American citizens will learn to live in fear just as the rest of the world does.

That's not an acurate quote it has been sometime since I heard it or remember reading it.

More or less we will lose certain alienable rights in order to protect us.

BUT how far does it have to go. It will soon be to the point you can't jack off without Big Brotha trying to turn to the next page of your porn mag.

Originally posted by darkwraith
ITS NICE TO INTELLECTUALIZE WHEN THERE ARE PEOPLE DYING. FOR ALL WE KNOW THE 55,000 ON IRAQ BODY COUNT IS A SUBTERFUGE.

THINK ABOUT IT. THE UNITED STATES DID 21,000 AIRSTRIKES AT THE BEGINNING OF THE WAR. LETS SAY EACH MISSLE KILLED AN AVERAGE OF THREE IRAQI'S.
(A MIRACLE IN ITSELF, REALLY PROBABLY FIVE) THATS
63,000 WITHOUT ONE SHOT FIRED ON THE GROUND!

THEN OF COURSE, YOU HAVE THE CLUSTER BOMBS THAT KILL SEVERAL PEOPLE LATER ON WHEN THERE JUST HANGING AROUND. SOME BOMBS JUST BLOW PEOPLE BEYOND RECOGNITION. NO COUNT THERE.

THE U.S. IS ALSO USING DEPLETED URANIUM GIVING PEOPLE CANCER.

Your spouting darkwraith....
How about answer the question put before you:

"Could you be so kind and polite enough to explain just what FREEDOM is and how it applies in the good ole' United States?"


regards
seekerof

[Edited on 15-1-2004 by darkwraith]

im amazed no one has yet brought up the song or quote "my country right or wrong" unfortunantly the rest of that quote is "if she is wrong may we have the courage to put her right" sadly no one seems to be interested in doing this

Originally posted by darkwraith
BY THE WAY THAT 21,000 AIRSTRIKES WERE IN THE FIRST THREE WEEKS OF THE WAR ONLY.....

And your estimates are completely false.

Those airstrikes only prevented a prolonged ground war and hence more death on both sides of the battle.

Let the truth be written by American historians.

LAY OFF THE CAPS PLEASE IT IS VERY ANNOYING!

yeah..anyways..Freedom is something, believe it or not, that the U.S. has, that some other people don't. If you think we have it bad. Move to some 3rd-world countries where thugs and bandits are in control. Somalia, for example.

Yes, we do have some things that you might consider bad, but when you look at it, we have it way better than those who are constantly surrounded by mass death and in a world where a shot to the head can come with 1 wrong word said to the government. A world where people CANNOT say what they want. A world where people CANNOT do what they want. A world where people CANNOT preach what religion they want. If you think we have it bad in the U.S., try moving to an oppressed country like Somalia, which, yes, is still run by gangs and thugs.

-wD

I'm not thinking Somalia, I'm thinking Rhawanda. Why are we in Iraq and not where they have been killing 100,000 people a year? Do they have oil?

To darkwraith -

Half of the items on your list have nothing to do with freedom, but only political nonsense. The rest.. well, none of them have any influence on your freedom to act.

There are two types of total freedom, one is No Government and No laws. The other already exists and is inside of you, no matter how restrictive society becomes.

They can make leaving your house illegal, but you will always have the freedom to do so. It's a matter of understanding consequences and deciding if an action which is illegal is something you believe strongly enough in.

You still have the ability to protest anywhere you want, however close to the president as you choose. If it means enough to you, then do it. If it means enough to others, then they will do it.

In the meantime, have a voice, fight the system with the system, and don't give up.

We recalled the governor of Cali. over here.. (for good or bad) - it can't be much harder to recall the president, eh?


[Edited on 7-1-2004 by quango]

Originally posted by intrepid
I'm not thinking Somalia, I'm thinking Rhawanda. Why are we in Iraq and not where they have been killing 100,000 people a year? Do they have oil?

THE WAR WAS NOT ABOUT OIL! THE WAR WAS NOT ABOUT OIL! THE WAR WAS NOT ABOUT OIL! THE WAR WAS NOT ABOUT OIL!

If we had wanted oil, the intelligent thing would to be making deals like Russia, Germany, and France (why do you think the security council has a nay vote, human rights issues? ). Iraq even lacks the oil to make it worthwhile. I don't see gas prices going down.

[Edited on 7-1-2004 by Esoterica]

I , as an outsider, say that that is exactly what you have right now, the Terminator as the Gov. of your biggest state? Doesn't this smack of Ronney Raygun. I am not a child I lived through the Regan years and the only thing he did right was spend the Soviets into bankruptsy. Even Bushes non-politics couldn't keep the price away from the tax payer.