Will the Real Planet Venus Please Stand Up!

originally posted by JohnLear Many scientists believe water must be present before living things can come into being. Dr Harold C Urey of the University of California, for example, has said water and not oxygen is the basic substance of life.

Oh, that's a very scientific statement; water is by it's very nature 2 parts hydrogen and one part oxygen. So, please tell me, how can water exist without oxygen? Ergo, oxygen must be present for water to be created. I guess they didn't understand that back in December of 1959. Very credible news story there, John. Just thought I'd through that out there.

[edit on 5/31/2007 by Stormrider]

Perhaps these 'viewers' were remotely viewing Venus in the past. If viewing remote places is plausible, then viewing remote times would be equally plausible.

Maybe even the future. Maybe the people they say were us, gliding around in our hover cars on our way to our white sandy beaches.

[edit on 5/31/2007 by Unit541]

John,

Just curious about the poeples of Venus, what is their total population?

Are there many races like on earth or just one main race?

How long have they been on Venus and what is their civilisation like?

Do they have religious beleifs?

Are they members of a "Galactic Federation" ?

How much more advanced are they from us? technologically and socially?
(I know they must be more advanced for they supposedly came here, right?)

Why dont they make themselves public on Earth in a big way?

Do they reproduce like us?

Do we all (Humanoids) originate from the same seed/source at the same time in history from somewhere or some galactic species in history?

What is their energy source for travel and technology?

Can they help us get out of the mess this planets in?

Thankyou for your time and comments

They were actually remote viewing Dubai. Maybe it was Yemen. Makes no difference, it isn't like a 'remote viewer' has some sort of navigation equipment.

There seem to be some inconsistencies with Adamski's story. Firstly,

Originally posted by johnlear
Magnificent mountains, some white-topped with snow, some barren and rocky, very similar to earth.

Originally posted by johnlear
The beaches on the lakes have sand that is very white and fine like on the finest beaches on earth.

White-topped mountains and white sandy beaches. And, yet:

Originally posted by johnlear
At night the colors cease and the domes become luminous with a soft, yellowish light.

Originally posted by johnlear
Venus has a constant cloud cover which is a pale yellow color and the reflection makes the oceans and the lakes yellow in color.

This seems to be inconsistent. The yellow color that makes it through the atmosphere colors the oceans and lakes with a yellow tint and, yet, doesn't give mountain snow or white sand a yellow tint? Now, I'm not an expert in optics, but when I put in a yellowish bulb in my light fixtures in my apartment, the light reflected from the walls, painted white, has a yellow tint too. If the cloud cover only lets yellow light through, then "white" wouldn't be white as we know it... it'd be yellowish. Shouldn't the snow described be yellow snow (don't go there!) and the white sandy beaches be yellowish sandy beaches?

Again, this is my off-hand knowledge of optics, the color spectrum, and light absobtion... so somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.

Secondly, there is this inconsistency, which may be the largest and most important:

Originally posted by johnlear
The tropical sections of Venus have vegetation similar to earth but are much lusher because of an atmosphere than is much more moist than earth. The people on Venus rarely see the stars as we do on earth because of the constant cloud cover.

As MajorMalfunction pointed out on the first page, plants and vegetation use photosynthesis to live (that's what makes them plants). Photosynthesis requries light, specifically light of certain wavelengths to function. If the cloud cover is so dense as to make the oceans and lakes yellow, then major portions of wavelength would be reduced. I'm no botanist (so someone lease correct me if I'm wrong), but the vegetation shouldn't be "lush" if a large part of the spectum, which is needed to survive, cannot get through the cloud cover. Indeed, plants die if they don't get the proper wavelengths of light.

Unless, of course, if photosynthesis requires different wavelengths on Venus, in which case the vegetation would NOT be similar to that of earth. Plants would be a different color... chlorophyll on earth absorbs red and blue and, hence, plants are green (chlorophyll reflects yellow/green). If there is no red and blue on Venus (the clouds only let through yellow), plants there wouldn't use chlorophyll and thus would be markedly different than plants on Earth (espcially in color), they'd have to abosrb yellow light to live.

Also of note,

Originally posted by johnlear
Cars and buses used for transportation vary in size as do those on earth.

If you had knowledge of a fantastic world and were to describe its fantastic transportation system, would you focus half of your discussion on the variance of size of the cars and busses on the fantastic world? It seems like an amaturish and childlike thing to notice and describe to me. Instead, this seems to be rhetoric attempting to establish similarity between Venus and Earth.

Originally posted by johnlear
Now, based on NASA’s record of reporting, what sounds more plausible? The Venus described by NASA or the Venus described by John Lear (using George Adamski’s quotes, and descriptions from John’s remote viewer friends)?

Adamski's story has some major internal inconsistencies. I'm more inclined to believe NASA's story, which doesn't.

[edit on 31-5-2007 by ArbitraryGuy]

Double Post

[edit on 5/31/2007 by Rockpuck]

Johny boyyy....


Wheres your proof? We have to take some nut job that went for a space ride to the loony bin .. I mean.. venus with aliens???

Oh and remote viewers of course.



By the way, I understand your ego is HUGE but the whole talking in third person.. thats gotta go.

Constructive criticism of evidence presented will come when the evidence ITSELF is presented.

[edit on 31-5-2007 by Spreadthetruth]

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
Twice as far from the Sun, and twice as hot as Mercury? Because of greenhouse effect? It just doesn't add up that way to me.

Mercury has no atmosphere, thus it does not trap in the heat while Venus has an extremely thick atmosphere and heavy cloud cover. So that traps the heat really well. How does that not add up?

Originally posted by johnlear
It is apparent from this newspaper article dated December 1, 1959 that Navy balloonist Malcom Ross, meteorologist Charles B. Moore and Dr. John Strong of Johns Hopkins University had not gotten the word from TPTB that Venus was full of exploding volcanoes enveloped in an atmosphere of sulphuric acid pushing down with a pressure equal to 900 meters deep in the ocean.

The article is from 1959 John. At that time no probes had been to Venus. No one knew about the sulphuric acid clouds yet. It was an assumption that the clouds consisted of water vapor, as there was no real way to find out at the time. A lot of what we learned about Venus was from those Russian and US probes. You can only learn so much from Earth based observations.

And for Strong not to rule out the possibility of life on this deadly planet? I’ll betcha he’s doing time. Talk about denying ignorance?

Now you're just being silly. Why do you think he would he be "doing time"? Again, this is from 1959, a lot of it is just speculation. For comparison, as far back as the late 19th century some people believed that there was life on Mars. It wasn't until the 1960's that these beliefs were dispelled when probes began to explore the planet.

I'm sure you can find all sorts of wild and crazy idea's of what people thought other planets were like before any space exploration had been done. But to use them to help support your own claims would be rather silly and foolish.

Originally posted by Stormrider
So, please tell me, how can water exist without oxygen?

Water can exist without being in the presence of free oxygen. It may be true that water cannot form without free oxygen, it certainly can exist.

If a frozen comet made of mostly ice crashes on a warm planet, what happens to it? melts and becomes water. I can take a bucket of water to a dry airless world... it still remains water

So your argument is not valid

Originally posted by Unit541

Perhaps these 'viewers' were remotely viewing Venus in the past. If viewing remote places is plausible, then viewing remote times would be equally plausible.

Remote viewing is the ability to access information from a remote geographic location in the past, present or future using something other than the 5 senses. Because we can instantly access locations hundreds of light years away I personally believe that our mind in accessing the Gravity A wave (which is instantaneous) in some fashion.

Skip Atwater dfines remote viewing as "The acquisition and description, by mental means, of information blocked by ordinary perception by distance, shielding or time. A way of perceiving something with mental powers alone using a scientifically designed, protocol driven structured process for acquiring information."

I took my RV class with reknowned remote viewer Angela Thompson, July 5-10, 1997.

Maybe even the future.

Most definately.

Maybe the people they say were us, gliding around in our hover cars on our way to our white sandy beaches.

Unlikely, in my opinion, but not impossible.

I fail to understand why there is such a problem when we discuss "remote viewers" Your Government (USA and Russia for sure, I haven't researched the others) took remote viewing very seriously. In 1969 20 million of your tax dollars was used by the CIA to create a remote viewing operation. It was dubbed "Project Stargate and was not decommissioned until 1995 when it was absorbed into other departments. I will not go into details here as this is about Venus...

They even published a manual for training people and that manual has been declassified and can be found (from me even )

So to make fun of it clearly shows ignorance of the facts... A prominent member of that team was Ingo Swann... and I though ATS was about denying ignorance...

:shk:

Originally posted by Melbourne_Militia

John,

Just curious about the poeples of Venus, what is their total population?

Don't know.

Are there many races like on earth or just one main race?

I think just one but I don't know for sure.

How long have they been on Venus

don't know.

and what is their civilisation like?

Apparently considerably more civilized than we are here on earth.

Do they have religious beleifs?

Yes, but it does not include concepts such as killing for Christ.

Are they members of a "Galactic Federation" ?

Don't know what a 'Galactic Federation' is.

How much more advanced are they from us? technologically and socially?

Further than we are likely to admit or imagine.

(I know they must be more advanced for they supposedly came here, right?)

Yes.

Why dont they make themselves public on Earth in a big way?

I would assume that they don't want to get charged as terrorists and sent to Gitmo. They might also be afraid of getting shot as illegal aliens or used as "threats from Outer Space" to weasel more money out of the taxpayers. Those are just guesses though.

Do they reproduce like us?

I would assume so although I have never had the opportunity to watch.

Do we all (Humanoids) originate from the same seed/source at the same time in history from somewhere or some galactic species in history?

Ask sleeper.

What is their energy source for travel and technology?

Don't know.

Can they help us get out of the mess this planets in?

No. We can only do that ourselves, and it is very unlikely that this will happen. We are led by those who prefer war to peace for whatever reason. If they don't have a reason they will invent one. Our job is to either pay or die for war or both. Have a nice day.

Originally posted by MrPenny

They were actually remote viewing Dubai. Maybe it was Yemen. Makes no difference, it isn't like a 'remote viewer' has some sort of navigation equipment.

Thank you for your post MrPenny. I always enjoy hearing the other side of the coin.

Originally posted by Melbourne_Militia
Why don't they make themselves public on Earth in a big way?

Your kidding right?

Do we all (Humanoids) originate from the same seed/source at the same time in history from somewhere or some galactic species in history?

According to a NASA Scientist yes...

Although Mars has grabbed the headlines as a potential site of extraterrestrial life, Venus may have been the original source of life in our solar system, suggests a new book by a University of Colorado astronomer...

Venus, however, is closer to the sun, and may have had warm liquid oceans and a mild climate at the time, notes CU-Boulder Assistant Professor David Grinspoon of the astrophysical and planetary sciences department...

Grinspoon, who has been studying the surface, atmosphere and clouds of Venus for 10 years through NASA-sponsored programs.

SOURCE


You know a few years ago NASA told us Mars was dry and dust and frozen
Now NASA tells us that there are +80F days in the summer and they are finding more and more evidence of water daily... and they can't explain why they find signs of recent water where it should be too cold...
And just lately the Rovers got mud on their tracks...

Seems they change their mind a lot... So how long before they tell us about Venus?

BTW in that photo of the river, I see a city in the top right corner

Originally posted by Rockpuck

Johny boyyy....
Wheres your proof?

Sorry Rockpuck, no proof. I guess I should have made that a little more clear but when I said I was quoting Adamski I thought....well, never mind. Sorry.

We have to take some nut job that went for a space ride to the loony bin .. I mean.. venus with aliens???

I always considered George Adamski to be a kind and gentle man from what I have read. I thought he spoke and wrote clearly and honestly about his experiences. He certainly never many much money off of them. I always felt there was more reason to believe his stories than not.

Oh and remote viewers of course.

Yes, I understand.

By the way, I understand your ego is HUGE but the whole talking in third person.. thats gotta go.

I agree. I knew the subject was going to be highly controversial so I was trying to distance myself from me. I guess it didn't work, eh? Sorry about that. Third person is on his way.

Pegasus Press Release

THIS JUST IN.....

From NASA/JPL Radar images of Venus taken by Magellan spacecraft



Target Name: Venus
Spacecraft: Magellan
Produced by: NASA/USGS
Copyright: Public Domain
Cross Reference: PIA00157



High Resolution .tiff 40 megs

the venus described by nasa

The only time when the "real" planet Venus will be seen is when the public would be involved completely. With a public donation.

bigelowaerospace.com

Do you think a public fund for another space probe to Venus could be created?

On ATS?

I'd like to see the surface myself. Since no aliens have picked me up to go visit, its high time we make our own probe. Publicly funded and publicly launched at Bigelow's or some other publicly funded site.

What do you think?

LOL Pegasus is working on that... but we haven't started fund raising yet. Matyas thinks thirty million would get us a small anti gravity ship with maybe room for 6 to 10 people

Here is a follow up to my image of Venus... Look at all the place names on this one...



Notice: 26 megs
photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov...

High Res .tiff 225 megs
photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov...

Here is a common shot of Venus from a British Source...




And here is an Astronomy pic of the day shot...




Will the real Venus please stand out indeed...

Now they can't ALL be right...

I will go with the NASA one I posted first


[edit on 31-5-2007 by zorgon]