Will the Real Planet Venus Please Stand Up!

Cant we as a group of extremely wealthy people who want the truth once in a while work together to build out own telescope - to look at venues to see what is actually like - if it takes 50 million or so - that lethal weapon guy has over a billion cant anyone on our side do something this is why we almost deserve to loose because good isn’t active evil is and it being evil initiates things to be evil I know there is no point asking but this is why we are in the position we are in I don’t expect a good response to this except for a few thanks

I have money to offer to any worthwhile fringe expedition or activity and I am happy to devote it to same. Once a minimum threshold of proof and pointfulness has been reached.

Originally posted by DogHead
I have money to offer to any worthwhile fringe expedition or activity and I am happy to devote it to same. Once a minimum threshold of proof and pointfulness has been reached.

Dear Dog Head,

it so happens that there are a few people currently active on ATS who are qualified engineers and physicists. There have been threads, lately, devoted to the discussion of the element 115 of which samples are held by Bob Lazar.

There are a few ideas circulated here on proper ways to test the element and conclusively decide whether this metal is indeed element 115. There are about 4 people who are frequently online who can contribute to the experiments.

Would you be willing to foot the modest bill for the equipment that's needed for such measurements? After all, Bob Lazar is one of the most famous figures in the UFO realm, and if true, his claims are bound to change history of mankind as we know it. I am sure that our fellow ATS members of proper qualifications will be willing to donate their own time free of charge, in order to complete a comprehensive battery of tests.

I will absolutely pay for this.

What I would personally want to see is the following:

1. detailed proposal.
2. full publicity at every single point.
3. NO SPIN. Just... no spin at all on results, physics, what we want versus what is real, etc.
4. full publication of all results. This sort of comes under 2 but is important enough to warrant kind of repeating it.
5. all normal peer review processes to be followed.
6. no "authorities" involved. No Bob Lazar, no debunkers from the media, no one like that, just the ATS members involved. Unfortunately of course this means no direct involvement by John Lear.
7. I get to be there when it goes down. Even if it is as apparently dull as some physics is to people who "don't get it"
8. we all get T-Shirts and mugs.

reasonable?

anyone who wants to do this, let's get started. I want to KNOW. Not believe or all that bushwah. KNOW. I have personally seen some whacky whacky stuff in the "black ops world", even one of them there triangles (it was basically an airship). But Element 115 is one of the holy grails in UFO popular culture. Let's put one in a zoo for everyone to see or take it out of the bestiary permanently as a load of nonsense.

Originally posted by DogHead
What I would personally want to see is the following:
1. detailed proposal.

Sure, that's normal process.

2. full publicity at every single point.

If this is ATS publicity, by any means. But the final results have to be
properly analyzed and it's common in physics to let these mature and
undergo critique by all those involved before they are circulated.

3. NO SPIN. Just... no spin at all on results, physics, what we want versus what is real, etc.

Umm... Yes, you see, we don't do SPIN. At all.

4. full publication of all results. This sort of comes under 2 but is important enough to warrant kind of repeating it.

By all means... You see, if Lazar's sample of 115 is fake, then serious journals won't accept the paper, you have to understand that... If it's real, we all stand to get the Noble prize. But if it's fake, you'll have to be content with full Internet fame, and we can write a book about the experiment.

5. all normal peer review processes to be followed.

Any serious journal won't do without it.

6. no "authorities" involved. No Bob Lazar, no debunkers from the media, no one like that, just the ATS members involved. Unfortunately of course this means no direct involvement by John Lear.

There is one problem with this. You see, I currently don't have any amount of the alleged element 115 in my possession... Because if I did, I'd be already in the lab instead of rubbing off plastic of my keyboard while typing this. So we need to contact Bob Lazar. I don't want to be intrusive so we'll have to ask John to help us. I can't be looking up Bob on paid search sites, I hope you understand that.

7. I get to be there when it goes down. Even if it is as apparently dull as some physics is to people who "don't get it"

Provided we don't do it "on the side" at one of the govt labs (at least part of it). If we manage to get all the gear in somebody's basement, you will be the guest of honor. I'll buy beers for everybody.

By the way, physics is never dull. It's the close second best to sex.

8. we all get T-Shirts and mugs.

Oh Gosh, that's the easiest part. Yes, I can get a graphic artist and we can get it professionally done.

anyone who wants to do this, let's get started.

We need to talk to the potential investigators here. I'll send u2u's.

Cool yes I get the point about Lazar and John Lear being the vector wherefrom the fabled substance will come...

So to that extent yes. I guess "as a source of the material to be tested" is cool and the gang. I just don't want any self-avowed sheep or goats to be present in a way that will lead to later claims that the fix was in.

Originally posted by DogHead
I just don't want any self-avowed sheep or goats to be present in a way that will lead to later claims that the fix was in.

I can arrange for neutral arbiters to be involved, in the sense that we present them with what we are trying to establish (e.g. the spectrum of alpha particles emitted from element 115), and how we do it etc. I can get notarized signatures of a few PhDs on the measurement protocols, who never heard of Lazar or ATS and don't care either way.

Yes, do that. We will need all of that and more to even remotely settle the debate, otherwise- it's pointless before we start in terms of the politics of the issue. The science- well, lots of people never let THAT get in the way of their beliefs.

This should also get its own thread rather than hijacking this one. Or should this get posted in the Element 115 existing thread? My leaning is towards posting in that one from now on since this is all about Element 115.

If anyone has some similar project for Venus issues, let me know here.

Originally posted by DogHead
reasonable?

No John Lear, no Bob Lazar? Yet you talk of studying the only 'known' piece of element 115 which happens to be in the possession of Bob Lazar (the other two pieces having been 'recovered'

And I wonder who would be on that 'four qualified people list" that Buddha mentioned?

And how do you propose to study the stuff without including the source?

Hmmm well that's okay Bob is too busy anyway. Seems he is back on the Government payroll.... And as to asking him to help, well forget that too... something about a non-disclosure agreement



reasonable? nah

How about 30 million to build a four seater space craft and we take a run up to the Moon and back? At the very least it would be a trip of a lifetime

[edit on 12-1-2008 by zorgon]

Originally posted by buddhasystem

If this is ATS publicity, by any means. But the final results have to be
properly analyzed and it's common in physics to let these mature and
undergo critique by all those involved before they are circulated.

TRANSLATION

Suppressed and hidden

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by DogHead
reasonable?

No John Lear, no Bob Lazar? Yet you talk of studying the only 'known' piece of element 115 which happens to be in the possession of Bob Lazar (the other two pieces having been 'recovered'

And I wonder who would be on that 'four qualified people list" that Buddha mentioned?

And how do you propose to study the stuff without including the source?

Hmmm well that's okay Bob is too busy anyway. Seems he is back on the Government payroll....

reasonable? nah

How about 30 million to build a four seater space craft and we take a run up to the Moon and back? At the very least it would be a trip of a lifetime

As I understand the concept of the study, I will be bankrolling scientists to analyse a sample of something that other people claim is Element 115. The other people have already made their claims. It is now time to analyse those claims, by analysing the sample.

I stipulated maximum publicity. I still do.

As for space flights, I am arranging to go to the space station, that will do for now.

As far as I can tell, and since I am paying for it to an extent it is certainly up to me, you would be welcome to be part of the analysis anyway! You could at least stay in the loop... I want everyone to be aware of what is happening. And get some facts so we can stop just speculating and puzzling. This is something where a physical object exists. Immediately, that puts us in the realm of real world scientific analysis. No ifs or buts. If it's physical, and we analyse it, even unknowns are data.

Well there is no way to get it from Bob Lazar... he is currently back in the employ of Los Alamos


As to the space trip... would you be so kind as to snap me a few pictures of the stars?


[edit on 12-1-2008 by zorgon]

Oh one thing- I require publicity on this to be open. No suppression. I made that clear, I'll make it clear again. The results, ultimately, and as quickly as possible, are to be fully open to public scrutiny. Hell I can even get them on TV and radio.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
There is one problem with this. You see, I currently don't have any amount of the alleged element 115 in my possession...

Yes I can see that you might have a problem then... and I am quite certain Bob has many more qualified physicists on his list

I can't be looking up Bob on paid search sites, I hope you understand that.

DOH How hard is that? He still is CEO of United Nuclear... just drop them a line and they will forward it to him... though his 'employers' may not be thrilled about ATS contactees

Originally posted by zorgon
Well there is no way to get it from Bob Lazar... he is currently back in the employ of Los Alamos


As to the space trip... would you be so kind as to snap me a few pictures of the stars?


[edit on 12-1-2008 by zorgon]

Whatever I can get in space I will post here.

Apart from like if I make it with some totally hot alien babe etc.

Originally posted by zorgon
DOH How hard is that? He still is CEO of United Nuclear... just drop them a line and they will forward it to him... though his 'employers' may not be thrilled about ATS contactees

Let me get this straigh. BL has his own "pretend" company that he himself is in charge of. He has the title as CEO, who is his employers then?

BL is the owner of www.unitednuclear.com

Registrar WHOIS: Domain Registration Services
Domain Name: UNITEDNUCLEAR.COM
Registrant: (165555-DRSS)
UNITED NUCLEAR
P.O. BOX 851
SANDIA PARK, NM 87047
US
Administrative Contact: (165556-DRSS)
Lazar, Bob [email protected]
P.O. Box 851
Sandia Park NM 87047 US
505-286-2831

So I would think his employers would be BL himself.

Some interesting things on that page BTW:

1. Although we sell retail scientific supplies, we are primarily a research & development company that does confidential prototype & Government contract work. Our Government/contract work takes priority over our retail sales.

What government would hire a man that claims that the government is keeping secrets, and dedicates his life to expose them .. ???

7. Military & Government orders take priority over standard orders. If we are busy filling a large Military or Government order when you made a purchase, your order may be delayed until it is complete.

Who is he kidding?

9. During busy times of the year (just before & after Christmas, etc.) order processing can take considerably longer than 2 weeks. If we get backlogged with orders, it could take several weeks to get to yours. We try our best to fill all orders as quickly and accurately as possible.

This I don't understand. Is it a busy time in the christmas holidays for the chemistry people? Do scientists buy christmas presents at this site or what?

And last .. the emails .. "[email protected]" ?
Why not [email protected] or [email protected] and so on .. This looks like a garage sale site to me, and for his emplyers .. they are only in his head ..

Originally posted by tep200377

Originally posted by zorgon
DOH How hard is that? He still is CEO of United Nuclear... just drop them a line and they will forward it to him... though his 'employers' may not be thrilled about ATS contactees

Let me get this straigh. BL has his own "pretend" company that he himself is in charge of. He has the title as CEO, who is his employers then?

BL is the owner of www.unitednuclear.com

Registrar WHOIS: Domain Registration Services
Domain Name: UNITEDNUCLEAR.COM
Registrant: (165555-DRSS)
UNITED NUCLEAR
P.O. BOX 851
SANDIA PARK, NM 87047
US
Administrative Contact: (165556-DRSS)
Lazar, Bob [email protected]
P.O. Box 851
Sandia Park NM 87047 US
505-286-2831

So I would think his employers would be BL himself.

Some interesting things on that page BTW:

1. Although we sell retail scientific supplies, we are primarily a research & development company that does confidential prototype & Government contract work. Our Government/contract work takes priority over our retail sales.

What government would hire a man that claims that the government is keeping secrets, and dedicates his life to expose them .. ???

7. Military & Government orders take priority over standard orders. If we are busy filling a large Military or Government order when you made a purchase, your order may be delayed until it is complete.

Who is he kidding?

9. During busy times of the year (just before & after Christmas, etc.) order processing can take considerably longer than 2 weeks. If we get backlogged with orders, it could take several weeks to get to yours. We try our best to fill all orders as quickly and accurately as possible.

This I don't understand. Is it a busy time in the christmas holidays for the chemistry people? Do scientists buy christmas presents at this site or what?

And last .. the emails .. "[email protected]" ?
Why not [email protected] or [email protected] and so on .. This looks like a garage sale site to me, and for his emplyers .. they are only in his head ..

Lazar is almost verging on becoming a bargain basement Comte De Saint Germain. Which must royally pee of the real one.

I wonder united nuclear really does.

Originally posted by DogHead
This should also get its own thread rather than hijacking this one. Or should this get posted in the Element 115 existing thread? My leaning is towards posting in that one from now on since this is all about Element 115.

BuddhaSystem approached me about this via U2U.

Is there a dedicated thread about this yet? I think a new one should be made specifically for this project.

There is a thread on 115, and I propose to move all such discussion there.

I have interest from scientists and engineers here on ATS, and I might start another thread on "ATS Research Committee". Stay tuned.