Will the Real Planet Venus Please Stand Up!

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by bigbert81
The Moon affects lots of things from acting as a gravitational fulcrum and keeping the Earth spinning much slower, and on a tilt. Without these things, evolution would not have come about as it did (no seasons and all).

According to whom? And based on what other models? There are billions of worlds out there... we have already cataloged over 200 planets around other stars..

Explain to me...

A) Which scientists are in agreement and is it all, a majority or a handful

B) the earth is hundreds of billions of years old Our meager existence but a few thousand... how has "the Moon accelerate evolution? Accelerate as compared to what?

C) You say " the odds go down exponentially for life being basically at the same stage in evolution as us." Again based on what? There are worlds out there billions of years older than ours... plenty of time to catch up. As to Venus on what do you base the fact that you must have a moon to have life?

Since we have nothing with which to compare how life was created and since we are still not 100% sure how it did here, how can you say "there must be a moon?"

And whats to say a planet like Venus wasn't colonized? If we went to a place with no moon, would we die off or would we overcome the obstacles and make it thrive?

Well, firstly let me say thanks for not jumping all over me in a defensive fashion.

Now, before you start to attack me, have you even Googled any of these questions you're asking? These are primary points to the "Big Splash" theory in which a smaller celestial body crashed into Earth causing the tilt and, over time, forming the Moon. Now the Moon is moving away from us at a rate of about 1.5 inches per year, which means that back when the theory takes place (about 4.5 billion years ago), the Moon was about 15 times closer than it is now. Now if you can't see the gravitational effects of this on the Earth, than I'm wasting my breath even talking to you. As the Moon moved away, the tides and seasons became much less severe, and the Moon's gravitational pull still affects us.

"The movements of the tide have always created special environments on Earth. Many life forms have developed in these tidal pools and basins. Without tides, the kinds of plants and animals on Earth would be quite different than those we know today. So we can safely say that life forms would have been different at all times of Earth's history. If Earth didn't have such a large satellite, it wouldn't have had dinosaurs in the Mesozoic Era, and it wouldn't have people today.

In fact, no complex life of any kind would have ever emerged. The evolution of complex life forms requires long periods of stable conditions. Without the Moon, the Earth's axis (the imaginary line through the North and South Poles) would wobble like a top that has been hit by a misbehaving child, or like a tightrope walker without a balancing pole. With the Moon, the axis wobbles a little bit but generally stays put. That keeps the seasons more or less the same for periods long enough for complex life forms to develop, adapt, and succeed."

-Dr. Fred Bortz, scientist, researcher, teacher

And no, he's not the only one. You might benefit from researching some of this stuff yourself, or even watching the History Channel (which they've shown all of this to the general public) before you come raining down on me.

Thanks

Originally posted by johnlear
As I mentioned before the distance of a planet from the sun has nothing to do with the heat on the surface of that planet.

The sun is an eletromagnetic sphere, not a nuclear reactor or generator. (Otherwise you would suffer radiation burns).

The sun produces radiant energy but no heat (as we know it) and the heat that it does produce is only the by product of the energy overcoming the resistance of our atmosphere.

A planetary atmosphere acts in the dual purpose of an energy converter and a filter to adjust the amount of heat so formed. The converter and the filter ratios are so adjusted that all the planets in our system can have surface temperatures similar to our own.

The iinformation you are fed that planetary surface termperatures are in proportion to the distance from the sun is erroneous. Althougn I have never been there I would imagine that Mercury has an atmosphere and temperature similar to Acapulco.

This little published fact about the sun is why all the planets in our solar system can and do have human civilzations similar to our own and this includes, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Neptune, Pluto and Mercury.

To Mr. Lear, Mr. Zorgon and all who contributed to this thread:

I just wanted to extend a gesture of appreciation for this thread as it has been one of the most fascinating things I have ever read.

I never got farther than Physics 101 in college so I will just continue to sit back quietly and absorb the knowledge and perspective that you are so graciously sharing.

Just wanted to say to mr lear and zorgon that you have opened my mind in areas that i was not previously aware.

There is no greater gift.

Thank you.

"theBLESSINGofVISION"

reminds me of Ray Bradbury's "The Martian Chronicles" at least in some of the stuff Discussed.

There is simply no way that this crap could be true. To even suggest that "a few at the top" in every astrological group on the planet could be stifled by some elite "cabal" trying to hide this is just plain ignorant of how things work.

VERY entertaining, though. Please continue.

Hey, I'm new here, and i believe in some pretty strange things...and venus and the other planets is one of them.

Ever since i was 12, i have wondered why scientists, presumably the best in the world have stated that life cannot live on the other planets due to the atmosphere, or the temperature, or distance from the sun etc.

The main reason that we are tolerable to our own atmosphere is the evolution from the cellular to the bipeds we are today. There is ABSOLUTELY no reason why life couldnt have evolved to the climates and pressures on different worlds.

We are so closed minded and arrogant, that we apply the laws of our world, to every other planet in this universe!! (and at least our galaxy)

The laws of physics, as far as we know are universal, yet our planets environmental state is ideal for the animals that have evolved here, aliens maybe tolerant, but this is by no means ideal for them unless tey have evolved in a similar environment.

If we are to call ourselves intelligent life, we must understand that our laws of the universe are NOT FINISHED!

Anyway, i'm rambling now, just to say, i believe that venus, mars and the moon do have an atmosphere, and that NASA has been using these close minded excuses for decades now, and it's through blind obedience that we accept that 'they must be telling the truth, their the best in the world'

Note: say what we tell you or you'll be using 2$ binoculars for the rest of your research...

Originally posted by BioElectroMagnetic Entity
Anyway, i'm rambling now, just to say, i believe that venus, mars and the moon do have an atmosphere, and that NASA has been using these close minded excuses for decades now, and it's through blind obedience that we accept that 'they must be telling the truth, their the best in the world

How untrue, but when you say "we" just who are you talking about. I can assure you that there are thousands of scientist and astronomers out there that are not "blinded" by someone else's facts (otherwise there would be little advancement in theory and fact) and if you think the NASA controls space knowledge you have NO idea how the rel world works, thus it is easy for you to believe in total BS conspiracy theories and the like.

Foolish idea such as a thick atmosphere on the moon (not a micro one), PEOPLE living on venus, saturn, mars, etc., prays on the week minded, the deluded, those with little science knowledge, those that want to believe so bad they fall for anything. It never astounds me, the more outlandish and wild the claims, the more people jump on board and defend them. And you call us "blind" Wake up, your getting prayed upon, and your ignorance is being used to their advantage.

Just a conspiracy test here, but how do you know that people like John and Zorgon don't work for the goverment? Their job is to spread some of the most wild and outlandish things out there, things that make people LAUGH at ufology, in order to ensure that no one takes it seriously...thus helping them cover up things easier. Huh? Total disinfo agents, perhaps? what better way to avoid the subject of UFO's in an official manner if you successfully cloud the subject with foolish ideas and add in plenty of "useful idiots" that follow those ideas (and even defend them, lol)

...just went thru all 12 pages of posting and wow, there are
some incredible photos of Venus and I happen to be in total
agreement w/ J Lear about life on other planets. NASA decides
to tell the public at large one day that conditions on others planets
are like XY and Z and we believe it? No way, keep up the good work
this is an amazing post. Flagged, for sure.

Notice the Venus probe is named the MESSENGER, a little reference
to Ms Jeanne de Arc, a truly beautiful martyr
/ / / /

reply to post by arktkchr

NASA decides
to tell the public at large one day that conditions on others planets
are like XY and Z and we believe it?

It's not NASA that "decides" what properties a planet has then spreads disinfo. They are not near the only ones in this game you know.....there a many groups that take separate, independent measurements and such that all come to roughly the same conclusion. There's universities, private scopes, research fellows, etc.

To sit there and say that it is NASA coming out with these "lies" is displaying ignorance in how science and astronomy work. Do you even know how they determine the temp and composition of a planet? Might want to at least weigh in on that before jumping on the Lear bandwagon just because he says thing you want to believe.

But way to go! Keep fighting the man! The truth is out there, it's being hidden by the MIB! roflmao

The motto of this site is deny ignorance. That means at least try to find out the facts before believe the improbable.

reply to post by Jack_Deth


kinda looks like an old beach or old water creek, wonder what the real colors are, cool pics none the less

John yet another i back you on. to the people who want to belive nasa a group whos been hideing secrets from us since its beging MORE POWER TO YOU. this governmet is very power hungry. y give people hope when you can control there life. The worst part is that all the government has to do is plant the seed and the tree of b.s. grows. if the planets are as john says andthe government dosent want us to know all the have to do is tell it how they want and spread it to the schools. then when the subject is brought up the non belivers are fighting for the government. and not every one will belive until the government comes clean. olny so many skeltons can be put in the closet before the door breaks and they all come crashing to the ground.

Wait -- whoa, okay.

I only have one question to ask.

Which one is the REAL image of Venus, that is in color, like we have of Earth?

I mean, there's billions of images of Venus and I can't even know which one is real.

Any input would be appreciated on this one.

[edit on 8-10-2007 by TheoOne]

Originally posted by TheoOne
I mean, there's billions of images of Venus and I can't even know which one is real.

Would love to help you on that one... really we would... but our ship isn't ready yet... I even figured with all the people on ATS who have 'connections' with 'them' we put the word out to give us a lift and take a few snapshots...

So far no offers

Originally posted by TheoOne

I mean, there's billions of images of Venus and I can't even know which one is real.

Well if all you want to know is what color it really is just go outside at night and look at it… or you can just let JL and Z continue to confuse you and make you not trust NASA.

Venus is one of the 5 planets that can be recognized with the naked eye. The other four are Mercury, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn. Funny thing is a lot of people mistake Venus for a UFO.

This site will help you know where to look and where to find all those secret satellites that don’t exist (except one ) too...

www.heavens-above.com...

Originally posted by Access Denied
This site will help you know where to look and where to find all those secret satellites that don’t exist (except one

) too...

So now secret SATELLITES don't exist either? For someone that claims to work for the AFRL, you might want to check with your employers...

Originally posted by zorgon

So now secret SATELLITES don't exist either?

Pardon the pun but I think that one flew right over your head.

Ask one of your "insider" contacts to explain it to you.

Originally posted by Access Denied
Well if all you want to know is what color it really is just go outside at night and look at it… or you can just let JL and Z continue to confuse you and make you not trust NASA.

Hmmm so it is your contention that someone can go out and look at Venus in the morning or evening sky and tell what COLOR it really is? You really ARE a comedian LOL... and as to those photos... John and I didn't take them NASA did...

reply to post by johnlear


Hi John, how are you?
This reply is in no way meant to take your post not serious, because I have a great respect for you.
I do it, because this whole matter has my interest, and I want also that the truth come out.
I am convinced, as many, that NASA, hold back many very important information from the public, but I think also that the reason for that is, that they are not allowed to do so.
So, normally in this case, I tend to go for “the Venus described by you” because if that is true, it sounds absolute fantastic.

But despite all that, I want to introduce a third party [Extraterrestrials ] who described “the Venus” also.
And I find the resemblance by this Extraterrestrial source, compared with “the Venus” described by NASA [sorry] very surprising and exceptional.
So therefore I post it, knowing that it probably will be received as total nonsense because of the Extraterrestrial thing, but so be it,I have no problem with that.

Source: so far officially unproven.
June 27, 1975

Venus origin,

8,590 years ago the destroyercomet came through and pulled a planet/moon [now Venus as we know it] loose from its orbit around Uranus.

Venus overview,

No life or cities as many claim.

There is life on Venus but not in a human form or shape.

There are ET bases but no human life forms as we know them.

The atmospheric pressure there is 107 times greater than on Earth.

Venus day = 117 Earth days ? strange, this totally contradicts the NASA information; Venus rotates in the retrograde (opposite) direction and spins around once every 243 Earth days.

Surface temp = 457 degrees Celsius.

Sea level atmospheric pressure is 334 times greater than Earth.

Atmosphere is 87% carbon dioxide
• Oxygen exist at 4.23 %
• Nitrogen and rare gases count for 55.47%

• Very few water vapors see Johns posting.

• The pressure of the Venus atmosphere is 107 times > Earth.

• No water to support life.

Venus is very flat around the equator.
The temperature is about the same day or night
Very great differences in wind between low and high regions.
• High winds in high areas. Winds reach 117 meters per second.
• Clouds hand as low as 43.17 kilometers and vary with storms.
• The mountains on Venus average 2.3 km.
• Venus looks like the moon with clouds.

On certain areas of Venus the temp rises> 500 degrees Celsius on the surface, where the mixtures of carbon dioxide, nitrogen, helium gas, argon gas and neon gas alternate, and the atmospheric pressure changes from 88 to 107.

Planet is in the first stages of development and will be many years before it is habitable.

So, the question for me is still open, what’s “the real Venus” look like, “the Venus” of NASA, “the Venus” of John, or “the Venus” of Extraterrestrials.
For me its impossible to say.
But this question will undoubted answered in the very nearby future.




[edit on 14/10/07 by spacevisitor]

Originally posted by spacevisitor

The atmospheric pressure there is 107 times greater than on Earth.

Sea level atmospheric pressure is 334 times greater than Earth.

Hmmm May I ask which ET's gave you this data? Seems to be a few errors worth noting.. 107 or 334?

Atmosphere is 87% carbon dioxide
• Oxygen exist at 4.23 %
• Nitrogen and rare gases count for 55.47%

87.00
4.23
55.47
----------------
146.70

Hmmmm I guess my Alien math most be off...

Sorry I will stick with John's version for now
Perhaps you could link us to that ET report?

reply to post by spacevisitor

Planet is in the first stages of development and will be many years before it is habitable

Actually, things I've read say that Venus probably had about 2 billion years to evolve life on it before life existed here on Earth. They say that about 4.5 billion years ago, the Sun was about 40% cooler than it is now making it probable that Venus had a temperate climate. And then you throw in the fact that it is much less tilted than Earth, this would make a more constant climate for life to evolve even more so.

And as for Zorgon, like I've told you before, the information is out there to find EASILY. Why don't you hop on Google and do some looking yourself instead of always attacking anyone who comes here looking for some information/theories from John? There are several of contrasting websites about much of this info.

Found this: "The atmosphere of Venus is primarily composed of carbon dioxide (96%) and nitrogen (3%), with traces of other gases and little to no water vapor" Spacevisitor, you might want to check out your stats.

[edit on 14-10-2007 by bigbert81]

[edit on 14-10-2007 by bigbert81]