California Assembly votes to require tracking device in semiautomatic pistols

the changes CA wants to enact will only be good for identifying
the weapon after the fact...
just more bureaucracy, i guess to try to make an air-tight case??

If CA wants to do something that helps before a weapon is used,
they might link (registered) weapons owners & their (registered) licensed vehicles,
kinda like that on-star service, then officers can be alerted when a registered gun is likely on the site, vicinity, person of interest

I know this kind of profile-alert won't address criminal activity,
nothing short of a Gestapo State could,
but the more information an officer has of the immediate scene & peripherials, the more likely they can plan & control the situation
to a successful conclusion.

Originally posted by Tiloke
However, I can find no fault with this bill (this is from someone who moved away from Cali because of their absurd gun laws). There is NO infringement, and there is ZERO cost to the taxpayer. The program would be paid for by gun manufacturers , not you and me.

"Not you and me" is true only if you are not a person who buys guns. The manufacturer will pass the cost on to the consumer.

Theres a LOT of people here saying this is a horrible idea but no-one is giving any reasons. I understand though. Any gun control idea is immediately thought of by most shooters as "a bad idea by a gun-grabbing commie".

It's a stupid idea because it does nothing to track the millions of handguns that already exist. It also does nothing to track guns manufactured outside of California. It will drive up the cost of older, "grandfathered" firearms, as well as new firearms that are required to implement the tracking scheme. It is stupid because of statement like this (from the source article), from a California lawmaker: "But we have the technology now to prevent killers from killing again and to bring them to justice" does nothing to stem crime, and only serves to give a false sense of security to the average person.

The marking mechanism will very probably be easily disabled with a simple rattail file.

That is the most stupid argument I have ever heard. I don't know of one person who would do nothing if they discovered one of their guns was stolen. You will not be held responsible because there will have been a police report that said your gun was stolen.

[hypothetical]I hate my boss. I'm going to buy one of those new guns, and report it stolen. Six months later, bye-bye boss. Perfect crime, because I reported the gun stolen, right?[/hypothetical]

Just my .02

That is the most stupid argument I have ever heard. I don't know of one person who would do nothing if they discovered one of their guns was stolen. You will not be held responsible because there will have been a police report that said your gun was stolen.

Not to mention.

if the discovered

How many people have collections? Multiple cabinets? Possibly at different locations? Do you take every piece with you on vacation? Do you inventory every piece when you get home from vacation? Ever have guests in your home? Your kids ever have guests? Locks can be forced open and guns can go missing days or weeks sometimes months before you notice. They tried to pass a 24 hour notice law in CT where if you didnt report a missing gun in 24 hours of its gone missing you would be held responsable for any crime commited with said gun. It passed for one city in the state. Fortunately nobody lives in that city except for criminals so it wont hurt anyone.

This idiotic law is bunk plain and simple. Best case it jacks up costs and keeps those evil poor people from defending themselves. Worst case is it (surprise!) doesnt matter at all to legal gun owners but forces a huge boom in the illegal weapons trade.

Sounds like perfect anti-gun big gov logic to me. Costs alot and makes an existing problem worse. Idiots like these thrive on their own hubris fueled stupidity and endless sea of ignorant self righteousness. Wont somebody think of the children?

I have to disagree with the statement about not being able to make your own barrels. I have a small milling machine and lathe in my garage. I also have access to a 3D printer and precision measuring equipment. I currently have complete machine drawings of every weapon that I own. If I chose to make my own pistol it would be inconvient and expensive, but not impossible. I could easily make a wax mold and do the barrel as an investment casting. This would allow me to cast the rifling grooves and then clean them up when I hone the bore. Other parts would have to be machined from solid blocks of material instead of being stampings. I would probably investment cast the frame as well.

While I have access to this equipment, there is nothing here that is extremely expensive. Good machine tools can be bought at auction for fairly reasonable prices. The 3D printer can be had for around $6000 for one that works in wax. I joined a local ceramics club for the use of their kiln to fire my investment casting molds. A local foundry has no problem in pouring them for me in exchange for some design work I do occasionally. If I wanted to spend the money for the tooling (approx. $2500) I could cut the rifling on my milling machine thus eliminating the barrel casting.

At this time I haven't made a pistol. It is cheaper to just buy one. If laws like this one start to be implimented it may become profitable to start manufacturing weapons for criminal use.

Originally posted by Tiloke

RealTruth, you want to know whats really retarded? The fact that some people are so uneducated about firearms that they think armor-piercing ammo, Short barrel shotguns,silencers, exploding ammo and machine guns are illegal, but still think they know enough about gun laws to call other peoples thoughts about them "retarded".

Originally posted by Realtruth


Lets see someone steals your gun uses it for a string of crimes and then your screwed or even better they duplicate your stamp and make 40 guns just like it and then go on a rampage. What a cluster.

Like I said this is retarded.

That is the most stupid argument I have ever heard. I don't know of one person who would do nothing if they discovered one of their guns was stolen. You will not be held responsible because there will have been a police report that said your gun was stolen.

You can not build your own barrel. You cant do it. It takes hundreds of thousands of dollars for the equipment needed to make pistol and rifle barrels. It's not something you can do in your basement in your free time with a hacksaw. Your not going to get "stamp" copies anymore than you get serial number copying now.(non-existent)


[edit on 31-5-2007 by Tiloke]

You are contradicting yourself all over the place. It's nice you have a bunch of guns, wonderful.

Whether the gun is stolen or not, people will be able to change or duplicate the imprinting part of the gun very easily.

How much money does it take to make a barrel? I see you know nothing about armoring weapons or know absolutely nothing about what tools it takes to make gun barrels and how much the equipment costs.

How do I know this? I have the equipment to do it. Many people are part time gun smiths here in the USA and have club, magazines, and even websites too.

Here is a couple of links for you.

Gun Barrels

www.americangunsmith.com...

I hope you have permits for everything you said you have, because most of it is illegal unless you have special permits for fully-automatic weapons factory made and not converted semi-auto's, Barrels on shot guns less than 18 inches is illegal to have, unless you have a permit from the ATF which costs about $200.

Armor piercing bullets and exploding ammunitions, not a federal ban but many states have outlawed them, especially Florida. But the area for the armor piercing is gray.

I was in law enforcement for over 7 years, so I know just a bit about gun, laws and what happens to law abiding citizens that get named in a criminal investigation because of a firearm that wasn't reported stolen, or they didn't even know it was stolen, because they only use the guns every 10 years of so. How does $10,000 plus in legal fees strike you to retain a lawyer and possibly a couple of years of BS? Do you think it doesn't happen? Think again the system is not perfect.

Now I am not trying to scare any law abiding citizens, but like I said this bill and imprinting is going to only hurt the law abiding citizens of the USA. Criminals have a lot of time and money on their hands, they would love a measure like this to be passed.

Originally posted by Tiloke
All you need is a quick laser engraving inside the chamber near the front. A computer can easily make sure every one is unique.Quick cheap and easy. I'm actually kind of ssuprised they aren't already doing this.

I had the microscopic edge of my ladies diamond laser-engraved with our names for about 30 bucks, cheap.

[edit on 31-5-2007 by Tiloke]

Well if it is that easy to do, Quick and Cheap, then I will guarantee criminals will replicate legal ID's to screw the system up. And guess who will have to answer for the screw ups, even if they are innocent?




[edit on 31-5-2007 by Realtruth]

Originally posted by Realtruth

What this actually means is that handguns will go way up in price for the law abiding citizens.

Bingo!!!!!! I knew exactly what this new law means, nothing more than another piece of legislation to control arms that only is going to benefit criminals and not law abiding citizens.

More and more the laws to keep citizens unarm are going around the bushes to make it more expensive and difficult to obtain a gun by lawful meanings.

Criminals will always are going to get their guns.

You are so right Realtruth I would kiss you.

This is just proof of how stupid the Legislature really is

The only people with "Tracking Devices" will be the normal, everyday people like us. It will probably add an extra $200 to every purchase. The criminals, the ones they are trying to hurt will ignore, or modify their weapons to keep them from being tracked. Who ever started this should be voted out of office for shear stupidity.

I would suspect that non california guns would simply be brought many times to solve the issue for the criminals. Does the law include what is needed to constantly check firearms in someone's possession to assure it meets the requirements? Wouldn't checks be necessary to keep everyone there from not buying the new style but possessing the old style in the state? If both types are allowed in the state, it seems like very few people would even consider the purchase, except people would figure they are law abiding, etc, etc.

[edit on 5/31/2007 by roadgravel]

Originally posted by Realtruth

What this actually means is that handguns will go way up in price for the law abiding citizens.

Can't you just order from companies over seas like Sako or Sig? Even if it managed to pass not only in Cali, but in the rest of the U.S. as well, couldn't we just cross over to Canada, buy the firearm we want and "smuggle" it back across the border?

Honestly, I have no idea. Ignorantly, I have yet to purchase a gun. But, with the politics in this country going the way they are, I'm definitely going to purchse as many different types as I can afford before they adopt the English method of gun control.

[edit on 31-5-2007 by tyranny22]

Originally posted by marg6043
Bingo!!!!!! I knew exactly what this new law means, nothing more than another piece of legislation to control arms that only is going to benefit criminals and not law abiding citizens.

More and more the laws to keep citizens unarm are going around the bushes to make it more expensive and difficult to obtain a gun by lawful meanings.

Criminals will always are going to get their guns.

You are so right Realtruth I would kiss you.

Holy Smokes!!! Marg this might be the only thing that we ever agree on!!

This is the major flaw in any gun law. ONLY LAW ABIDING CITIZENS WILL COMPLY WITH THE LAW!! These are the people that you don't have to worry about.

What a bunch of morons. Why are always getting away with taking away our rights and saying it will help. This is only going to hurt the average man, not the criminal.

Originally posted by tyranny22

Originally posted by Realtruth

What this actually means is that handguns will go way up in price for the law abiding citizens.

Can't you just order from companies over seas like Sako or Sig? Even if it managed to pass not only in Cali, but in the rest of the U.S. as well, couldn't we just cross over to Canada, buy the firearm we want and "smuggle" it back across the border?

Tyranny that is the whole point no matter what curbs are put into place only law abiding citizens are going to listen and or pay the price. They can't even enforce all the laws they have now, so why add more?

But yes people can and will smuggle stuff in and not to mention all the grandfathered ammo, weapons, accessories that will be in circulation.

[edit on 31-5-2007 by Realtruth]

Originally posted by MSHARPE2012
What a bunch of morons. Why are

always getting away with taking away our rights and saying it will help. This is only going to hurt the average man, not the criminal.

Because people have either been programmed to believe that the government has to take care of us or they just think that since it doesn't directly affect them they just don't care.

Does anyone remember the TV series Quincy? The last couple of years of that show primarily consisted of the "cause of the week". Every week there was some pressing issue that needed to have a law passed by the government, or needed a government program created to encourage or prevent some tragedy from happening.

I was like if your child's shoes became untied and he tripped ofer the laces and scraped his arm, there needed to be a government inquiry into the length of shoe laces sold with shoes.

Next time you say "there ought to be a law against that" think about what that statement really means.

The other possibility is people have long been abusing the spirit of the existing law if not breaking it outright.

What is the spirit of the 2nd Amendment?