This is something I thought about a few years ago and posted on a super string theory forum at the time. The main reason man could technologically progress is because of his ability to easily create fire by banging two rocks inorder to create fire early in the human evolution. Whales and dolphins even though they are intelligent will never be able to advance because creating fire in water by friction isnt possible, or a caveman living under water would of not been able to aswell. The aliens at one time on thier world were also just simple lifeforms but must of learned how to make fire easily, which suggests thier atmosphere is also oxygen based. Without the ability to make fire in the early stage of evolution by a simple action such as banging two rocks together, the future manipulation of the elements like melting metal inorder to make tools, and to technologically evolve, would be very difficult in an oxygenless atmosphere. Im not suggesting that aliens breath air necessarily but the possibilty is great that thier atmposhere contain oxygen aswell. I would like to see some ideas about what thier atmosphere could be made of, where the simple process of friction can easily create a fire. I could be wrong but one thing for sure, the ability to easily create fire is important at the very early stages of an aliens planets evolution for a creature to have the ability to become technologically advanced.

right now our best guess as to what evolved life on earth was the rise of free oxygen and most experts think that woulkd be the case on other planets.

the problem is we only have one data point for life in the universe but 1 data point is better than none. There could be planets with oxygen but also toxic elements to humans but the life on that planet would evolve and adapt to that environment.

i think the biggest danger to us going to other planets would be the viruses as we havent evolved along side them like here on earth. Remember it was the common cold that killed the invaders in War of the Worlds


[edit on 30-5-2007 by yeti101]

We've already found life here on Earth in places we never imagined it could be...(deep sea vents come to mind, with boiling water). I think that most scientists have greatly expanded their notions of where life could exist...and I suspect we'll find the universe is virtually teeming with life...(though mostly of the non-sentient variety). I suppose only time will prove me right or wrong here...but I'd wager that during my lifetime, we'll find some kind of life (even if only microbial) on other worlds just in our own solar system....

Originally posted by Gazrok
We've already found life here on Earth in places we never imagined it could be...(deep sea vents come to mind, with boiling water). I think that most scientists have greatly expanded their notions of where life could exist...

He's not saying life can't evolve on planets that don't have oxygen, he's saying that it would be nearly impossible for life to become technologically advanced on planets that don't have oxygen.
Because of the fact that in order for a species to technologically evolve, it would require the aid of fire.

Nice theory btw widukindHH15gran, it never crossed my mind

Koen

[edit on 30-5-2007 by koenw]

Just by looking here on Earth we've witnessed life exist and develop in places that even TWENTY years ago we'd never have imagined. The truth is some of that life is intelligent and would definitely have the ability to develop - but - they did not. What's the purpose?

My personal belief on this is that those lifeforms never had the need to develop. Humans can be traced very correctly and given "whys" as to why we're here now today in this form. Now, if you look at a dolphin, a very intelligent creature, what was the NEED for them to develop? Is there any? Has the environment pushed them to develop technology?

The original poster is bringing one possible explanation and I believe there will be multiples. It may or may not be true that oxygen is a must for sentient life (or life at all) but we MUST use our current understanding of life. That's how we SHOULD start, but, all possibilities should be open for contest/viewing.

Just my 2 cents.

I realize that, but why would fire need to be such a necessity? For one thing, other lifeforms may be able to regulate their body temp better, or their world may be more consistent...

Also, agriculture was our true impetus for settling down, fire isn't necessarily a need for this. One could make many implements from sun-dried pottery and never need to have developed fire, for example.

I will agree that it is an interesting idea...but not so sure of fire's importance in the grand scheme of developing a society...

Thanks koenw, you really refrased well what I was trying to explain, I would like to add that the degree of technology Im talking about is atleast as advanced as we have reached, and more, right up to ufo technology which we havent reached yet. Also it takes a combustable material to get a fire going, most likely dried up vegetation, which is also necessary inorder to build an atmosphere of oxygen in the first place.

I think you are way off base. There are species that survive just fine without oxygen and the use of fire and the Grey's are one of those species.

They are more Botanical and deal with Chlorophyll, but what do I know.

I also disagree. I think that there are probably so many inhabited worlds in the cosmos that there is a good chance for technological advance w/o fire ability.
There could be water breathing aliens that evolved on a water world and happened to advance by manipulating hydrogen atoms or something. Maybe they 'discovered' fire after they were able to travel out of the water or into space or something. There exists too many possibilities to limit alien life to
developing the way humans did. imho.

I really disagree with the last two posts, fire melts iron pelets, which makes tools, if you do not have oxygen you cant make a fire, and thus you dont learn anything. Im talking about all alien cultures in the univese, you must absolutly need the possibity of learning how to start a fire, if you cant do that, you will never ever be able to manipulate the 108 or 109 elements. You must have an atmosphere made up of oxygen in order to have a small fire goin, It is the most important discovery any alien culture has to discover. My question is very simple, what kind of other atmophere could help inorder to procuce a spark by banging two rocks together along with a combustible material inorder to start a fire, and this when you are at the beginning of the evolution just likew neandrethal man. Teach me other types of plantary atmospheres that could allow a spark to make a fire. Itswhnat i want an answer for. You must understand other planeteray atmospheres inorder to answer what im talking about.

Maybe in the human world..... get out of the box life isn't what you think it is.

Alien metal isn't like humans.
Edit to add: Some beings such as the Grey's can't survive on our lands because there is to much oxygen in our air

[edit on 1-6-2007 by observe50]

I just feel as if the word 'advanced' is being used too narrowly here. We are assuming that the way we do things , expending stored energy to power machines, is the only way to get work done (pun intended.)

There might be other things that we just can't understand that are equally effective. But we aren't wired to think of those things.

So basically you are saying that if a species doesn't have fire then they will never amount to anything. This way of thinking is too limiting. You don't need fire to manipulate iron. You could use lasers or water pressure or sound or some other type of matter manipulation technique that we haven't developed yet. Also, you don't need metal to build a ufo. Yea, maybe they are metal. Maybe they are not. You don't know. How do you know there aren't aliens who's interstellar ships aren't made of pure energy? Maybe there are aliens who live on an ammonia based planet and developed nuclear power or something like that. I'm just throwing out ideas here but who are you to declare thet fire
"is the most important discovery any alien culture has to discover"?
The universe is a big place dude. Chances for the existence of non-fire based civs are good.

Let me try to explain this theory of mine from a different angle, I understand that there could be other possibilties in alien cultures to technologically advance. But without oxygen for a fire to easily burn, would slow down thier evolutionary progress. Ever since I seen a ufo and lifeform back in 95 I realized so many things about them. After spending all these years reflecting back to that night, I knew right away that a lot of our theories have flaws in them such as the possibility of FTL travel. Anyways I thought about how thier history could of been. What is it that we might have in common with them. Obviously thier planet orbits around a star in the so called habitable zone of orbit. Gravity affects all life forms on thier planet. And the process of life also must of started from microrganisms. Also the natural resources on thier planet should be similar to any other planet which has the full package of natural elements just like our planet. Now lets take iron, copper, silver and gold. It takes heat inorder to melt and manipulate these raw materials. By the way the ufo encounter I had werent greys, they were of the luminous type, with an incredibly advanced nanotechnology. Anyways these creatures also started from the bottom of the technological ladder, just like primitive man did. Nobody can argue that it helped early man tremendously back in the primitve days. If it werent for the oxygen in our atmosphere it would of taken a long time before they were able to make an iron hammer lets say. Ive tried to debunk my theory myself, hmmm. lightning, volcanos, hot springs of lava, could be on alien planets and a way was discovered how to use these natural heat sources that might occur on some planets. I guess to conclude however, in mans case, we were lucky, we have the perfect atmosphere for a primitvve creature to learn how to use fire inorder to manipulate the elements. I guess for those aliens that travel by ufo today, and that dont have an atmosphere like ours, it would of taken much longer inorder to technogically develop, than us with our atmospheric conditions. I could be wrong with this theory, and many types of atmospheres would be okay lets say, or maybe Im right. The whole idea of my thinking revolves about, what do we have in common with the aliens and ufos we see?