NASA: Only 10 Years Till Irreversable Climatic Danger Point, page 10
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reply posted on 5-6-2007 @ 04:23 AM by Rilence
Originally posted by Muaddib

...So, lets go back to the caves, start using a loincloth, or even leaves from trees to cover yourself, oh wait, you will be killing something that is alive...humm...use your hands to cover yourself, and then wait and hope with the other billions of people in caves for things to get better...even though none of the above will stop nor mitigate Climate Change...

Oh but let's do it anyways heh?


You seem rather CERTAIN that reducing the rate at which we use resources and so forth will do nothing to lessen the warming of the planet at all...You don't claim it to be your opinion, you specifically stated :

"even though none of the above will stop nor mitigate Climate Change..."

How the hell would you know that ? By quoting your favorite researchers or scientists ?

This is precisely what those who believe warming is entirely the result of mankind consuming do ...They pick and quote their favorites and ignore everything else on the subject, just like you...

This is the primary weakness with both sides of the argument

The reality is, we have NO way of knowing how warm the earth will be in 50 yrs...What we do have is some evidence of what may happen based on various models and so forth..

What I said in my previous post was...Ok, we don't really know the cause of this, or the extent to which it will affect us, but I don't see any harm in assuming a middle to worst case scenario and plan for exactly that...

I mean, c'mon...Is 1% or so of GDP over the medium term too much to pay for lessening the affects of what might happen ?

Personally I see it as a form of insurance, and that is something I'm more than prepared to pay in the form of higher energy, food and transport prices, etc...


reply posted on 5-6-2007 @ 03:01 PM by melatonin
Originally posted by Muaddib
It is not just "those researchers/scientists, but the dozens others who contradict your claims as well as those of Mann et al.

As to why I believe their research more than what you post? I am pretty sure I have explained it several times already.


Not really, what you do is present a handful of cherry-picked single region proxies, claim these to prove your point, whilst totally ignoring the high resolution multiple-proxy reconstructions.

I can account for the single regional proxies, all they show is that at some point in a few hundred year period it was likely to be warmer than it is currently at that location alone.

Anyway, onto my main point. This Quelccaya ice core data is a product of work by the Glaciologist, Lonnie Thompson from Ohio. He has multiple proxies as well, you know

When we use all six of Thompson's ice-cores (3 from South America - including Quelccaya; 3 from the Tibetan Plateau), we find a rather interesting outcome:


www-bprc.mps.ohio-state.edu...

Oh noes, the data is another validation of Mann's work...

This is why single region cherrypicked proxies tell us nothing but what was happening at that location at some time in a 400-500 year period. We need proxies from numerous regions that cover a these periods in high resolution. So it was probably quite warm on the Quelccaya ice sheet at some point during that period....but it wasn't to the same extent in regions close to it.

So these ice-core proxies are yet another strand of support for the numerous high resolution multiple-proxy reconstructions from multiple researchers.

What you are doing is like taking 10 cherrypicked 6ft 7in women and comparing them to a random sample of men, then concluding women are taller than men.

[edit on 5-6-2007 by melatonin]


reply posted on 5-6-2007 @ 06:25 PM by Muaddib
Wow, melatonin once again producing Mann's data as the ultimate truth. who would have thought?...

The evidence, which melatonin (also known as Regenmacher) wants to dismiss, and which has been done by researchers which are not part of Mann's circle of friends, and which includes scientists from Africa, South America, North America, Canada, China, Japan, Spain, Germany and Austria amongs others all point to the same conclusion... The Roman Warming period, the Medieval Warming period, and the Little Ice Age were all "global events" and the record shows that the RWM and the MWP were warmer than at present.

Chinese researchers sharply disagree. Chinese temperature history, collected from such sources as peat bogs, lakebed sediments, ice cores, and tree rings, shows:

China was warmest between the year 1 AD and the year 240 AD (during Europe’s Roman Warming).
China then had a colder period from AD 240800, coinciding with the cold European weather of the Dark Ages.
China had warmer weather from AD 8001400, essentially the years of Europe’s Medieval Climate Optimum.
China cooled again between 1400 and 1820 (roughly the period of Europe’s Little Ice Age. (That’s when the Vikings who had settled Greenland during the Medieval Warming starved or froze to death.)
China’s current warming cycle began in the early 1800s, as did the recent warming in Europe and North America.

Overpeck’s suggestion that the Medieval Warming was a Europe-only event is controversial, but a number of climate researchers have said, “Research has failed to identify any known natural climate-forcing mechanism that could have generated all of the ‘unprecedented warming’ of the 20th century.”
Of course, it is at least as unlikely that Europe could have maintained a temperature substantially higher than the rest of the planet for more than 300 years.

Fortunately, recent U.S. research breaks the theoretical deadlock. A team led by Dr. Gerard Bond of the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory (affiliated with New York’s Columbia University) recently released its analysis of seabed cores from the North Atlantic that go back 12,000 years. Looking at iceberg debris, the Bond team found nine global warmings and nine global coolings in a cycle that averaged 1340 years and coincided exactly with a known cycle in the sun’s magnetic activity.

The Chinese climate history, published recently in Geophysical Research Letters, further validates the Bond team’s seabed core findings. It also tosses into a cocked hat both the idea of stable earth temperatures and the idea that Europe could have a climate separate from the rest of the Earth.

www.cgfi.org...

But despite the fact that it has been corroborated by research in several countries all which show the RWP, the MWP, and the LIA, were not only globla, but the Climate Changes which happened around the world coincided with those events known as RWP, MWP, and LIA; you get people like melatonin, who want to believe Mann, even after his research has been discredited.



[edit on 5-6-2007 by Muaddib]

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