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do gay and lesbians have less worth than heterosexuals?

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posted on May, 28 2007 @ 02:56 PM
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I posed this question in the comments on another post, but it occurred to me that it might be interesting to lift the discussion out of the comments and open it up to everyone who reads here. Here’s what I asked in that comment thread.

Are there rights that same-sex couples don’t need, but that heterosexuals do? Or are there equivalent needs in same-sex couples as in heterosexual couples? Are there rights and protections that same-sex couples simply shouldn’t have?I thought it would be interesting to hear what everyone had to say in answer to those questions. But first, it might be a good idea to review what’s already out there.


This is about the best summary I’ve seen thus far of the rights and protections that same sex couples are currently denied. Broadly, they include:

Hospital Visitation Rights - Married couples have the automatic right to visit each other in the hospital and make medical decisions. Same sex couples can be denied the right to visit a sick or injured partner in the hospital.
Health insurance - Same-sex couples have no automatic right to visit one another in the hospital or make medical decisions for one another. Having medical power of attorney documents may help, but there’s no guarantee and hospital will recognize those documents.
Spousal Privilege - Same-sex couples have no right to refuse to testify against one another. So everything you say, write, email, fax, etc. to your partner is admissible in court and can be used against. you.
Inheritance rights - Same-sex couples have no automatic rights to inheritance in the absence of a will.
Family leave - Same-sex couples have no legally protected right to unpaid leave to care for an ill spouse.
Pensions - Most pension plans only pay survivor benefits to a legal spouse. Same-sex partners get no pension support for surviving partners.
Nursing homes - Same-sex couples have no legal right to live together in a nursing home and spend their final years together.
Home protection - The laws that protect married couples from being forced to sell their homes to cover high nursing home bills don’t apply to same-sex couples. A same-sex partner can be forced to sell, and forced out of the home to satisfy nursing home bills if he/she lives in the home but does not own it.
Retirement savings - Married people can roll over a deceased spouses 401(k) into an IRA without paying taxes. Same-sex partners must withdraw everything, pay income taxes on it, and lose the tax deferral benefits.
Taxes - Marries spouses may inherit unlimited property from a deceased spouse, tax free. Same-sex partners pay taxes on any amount over set state and federal limits.
Social Security benefits - Unless you’re married, you get no Social Security from a dead spouse. If you have kids, they will get it and you may be custodian of it until they’re adults.
Beyond that, as I’ve said before, the government’s General Accounting office tallied up 1,049 rights and protections based on marital status. It will take longer to detail what all of those are, and just how they might or might not apply to same sex couples. But in the time I’ve been writing this blog, I’ve posted about some stories that underscore just how this stuff shakes out in real life.

There was the friend I wrote about recently who was turned away from from the emergency room, where his partner had been taken after suddenly collapsing at work, and told he could not be given any information because he was not next of kin. He had to leave the hospital and retrieve their legal documents before he could gain admittance to see his partner when a married spouse would have been waved through without question.

My friend was luckier than Bill Flanigan. When his partner Robert Daniel was hospitalized in Baltimore, the couple had their legal documents with them, including durable power of attorney and documentation that they were registered as domestic partners in California. But those documents were ignored by hospital staff and Flanigan was kept from seeing his partner until Daniel’s mother and sister arrived and by then Daniel was unconscious, with his eyes taped shut and hooked to a breathing tube; something Daniel had not wanted.

Even having a will didn’t help Sam Beaumont when his partner of 23 years, Earl, died. Oklahoma requires a will to have two witnesses, but Earl didn’t know that and his will leaving everything to Sam had only one. So Earls cousins, who disapproved of his relationship and most of whom never spoke to the couple or even came to Earl’s funeral, successfully sued to take away the home and ranch Sam an Earl had shared for 23 years. A married spouse, even in the event of a will lacking enough witnesses, would’ve had the right to automatically inherit at least some of the estate.

Laurel Hester gave 23 years of service as a investigator for the county prosecutor’s office, only to be denied justice when she requested that the county government to provide domestic partnership benefits as permitted (but not required) by New Jersey state law. Hester was dying of cancer and wished to leave her pension to her partner, Stacee Andree, so that Andree could keep their home after Hester’s death. Her request was denied. It wasn’t until the story attracted media attention, cause people to rally in support of Hester, and eventually drew threats to boycott the tourism-dependent county that the county government finally granted Hester’s request shortly before she died.

Having a domestic partnership didn’t spare Crispin Hollings any trouble when his partner Eric Rofes died recently. While making funeral arrangements, Crispin had to mount a legal challenge against a funeral home director who refused to recognize their relationship and refused to let Hollings proceed with the funeral arrangements. The funeral home director eventually relented, but no heterosexual spouse would’ve had to face that challenge in the midst of mourning and carrying out a spouse’s last wishes.

Having a civil union won’t help Robert Scanlon and Jay Baker, even after 30 years together. With Robert facing inevitable decline and death from ALS, the couple will likely have to liquidate all of their belongings to pay for the necessary care. A married spouse, as mentioned before, would at least be able to keep the house




posted on May, 28 2007 @ 03:02 PM
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I live near San Francisco and have a lot of gay friends.

There is NO legitimate reason a same sex couple should be denied rights that hetero couples have. NONE.

If religious fanatics think that marriage is under attack by gay people just wanting to marry their much beloved partners, then they're deluded. How is two men getting married threatening the institution of marriage? I can answer that: IT IS NOT.

I say abolish marriage altogether, and let people enter into contractual unions. They can be entered into in increments of one, two, five, or even ten years, and can be renewed upon expiration. If they are not renewed, the union is automatically dissolved.

[sarcasm]Yeah, marriage is SO sacred that everyone who gets married stays married and is happy forever after.[/sarcasm]

That's why the divorce rate is climbing to near 60% these days. :shk:



posted on May, 28 2007 @ 03:11 PM
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Homosexuality isn't evil, it's natural and not by choice. There are lots of other species, and not only mammals, where some individuals are "gay".

So I think they should have similar rights.



posted on May, 28 2007 @ 03:20 PM
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I find it astonishing that this is even an issue but actually it wasn't that long ago in this country that black people were considered to have less worth than white people. And still a lot of people in America consider people of color to be "less than" themselves.

Eventually homosexuals will be largely accepted in general society but their will always be others that for some reason feel the need to feel superior to groups unlike themselves.

It is just the "primitive aspect" of human nature that fosters "tribalism";

It's not going away anytime soon!



posted on May, 28 2007 @ 03:29 PM
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Okay, I'm finished with the sarcasm. For those who haven't heard, it has been legal for gay and lesbian couples to obtain a marriage license in the city of San Francisco for the last ten days. Since then, over 3,000 same-sex couples have tied the knot in the city. And do you know what I've noticed? The sky is still overhead. My mortgage company still wants monthly payments. George W. Bush still can't pronounce the word "nuclear." By all accounts, nothing in America has changed. The fact that gays and lesbians getting married hasn't forced the earth out of its orbit and sent it careening toward the sun hasn't stopped the righteous-wingers from wetting themselves all across the nation. Included in this group is the most incontinent president in recent U.S. history, George W. "If anybody needs me I'll be cowering under this National Guard cot" Bush. On Thursday, Bush had this to say:

"I'm troubled by what I've seen. I have consistently stated that I'll support (a) law to protect marriage between a man and a woman. And, obviously, these events are influencing my decision."

And what decision is being influenced by gay couples getting married? His decision to let the traitors within his administration who sold out Ambassador Joseph Wilson's CIA operative wife continue to perform their duties? His decision to forego a serious effort to capture Osama bin Laden and divert resources from fighting terrorism to ousting Saddam Hussein? No, employing traitors doesn't bother Bush and company in the least, and hell, the fake threat in Iraq might actually help him get re-elected. But gays marrying each other? Now, that's got to stop.

It's clear to anybody who wants to read the constitution that denying a marriage license to a couple on the basis of the gender of that couple's members is patently unconstitutional and that doing so causes a boatload of harm to that couple (denial of spousal health insurance benefits, denial of automatic inheritance and survivorship rights, etc.). Therefore, no court in the land is going to enforce any ban on gay marriage currently in place with the crummy constitution we Americans are forced to live under. It turns out we need a constitution that takes away civil rights if the United States is going to remain a Conservative Capitalist Christian State. So the second-rate minds that told us that Saddam Hussein had nuclear weapons are now contemplating a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. Yes, Americans won't rest until we've given gays and lesbians the constitutional finger.

Okay, not everybody is thrilled when they see two guys kiss on television. Everybody has different turn-offs, at least if I've been reading my Playmate bios correctly. Unfortunately for the people on the wrong side of this debate, which seems to be a majority of Americans at present, the "because it creeps me out" argument isn't going to cut much legal ice in the portion of the United States outside of Alabama. Besides, I'm sure that Dick Cheney's lesbian daughter wouldn't be thrilled watching my wife and me sliding lips, either. So let's put that irrelevant argument aside and really discuss what gay marriage would be in America.



posted on May, 28 2007 @ 08:37 PM
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im bisexual, SURPRISE and i know that people like me( lesbian gay bisexual) dot have the same rights as "normal" people, i know that for a fact because i kept it a secret at school and when it slipped out i started getting what i refer to as "the look", i think you all know what I'm talking about, anyway it just isn't right, i started to get made fun of again and some of the teachers started ignoring me and its just the same homophobia, any way back on topic everyone is homophobic in a way, its just the amount of homophobia you have.



posted on May, 29 2007 @ 06:06 AM
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Thankyou for your reply i think it's very sad being picked on because of the sex you are, even bisexual. But taken your points of veiw in has made me realiase what can happen to yourself and others.



posted on May, 29 2007 @ 06:11 AM
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Thankyou for your reply,
I morally agree with you I think all kinds of people homosexuals lesbians and bisexuals will increse in popularity,and if we keeep excepting this than it will never stop not in a million years.



posted on Jun, 1 2007 @ 09:38 AM
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einstienhero123, I applaud your two posts in this thread. They were both well written, thoughtful, and well balanced. It's a shame we don't have the 'stars' in BTS, you surely would have gotten all five from me.

I would like to point out this part that you wrote in your second post:



And do you know what I've noticed? The sky is still overhead. My mortgage company still wants monthly payments. George W. Bush still can't pronounce the word "nuclear." By all accounts, nothing in America has changed. The fact that gays and lesbians getting married hasn't forced the earth out of its orbit and sent it careening toward the sun hasn't stopped the righteous-wingers from wetting themselves all across the nation. Included in this group is the most incontinent president in recent U.S. history, George W. "If anybody needs me I'll be cowering under this National Guard cot" Bush.


I think this is something that people against same sex marriage rights refuse to recognize - the world is not going to end because two people of the same sex who love each other are now legally recognized and are afforded the same rights as heterosexual married couples.

Notice I also used the term same sex marriage rights. All gay and lesbian people I know, news stories I read etc. are not focusing on being able to say "Hey, look at us, we're married". No, they just want the same rights and privileges afforded to opposite sex couples.

And in response to your question - Gays and lesbians are not worth less then heterosexuals.

Great post.

EDIT: Spelling / additional info

[edit on 6/1/2007 by DCFusion]



posted on Jun, 1 2007 @ 12:38 PM
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Marriage isn't about sexuality, it's about love. Two people who are so in love they want to spend the rest of their lives together. I don't care if it's two guys, girls, or guy and girl. It's bringing in someone you love into your family, and you into theirs.

That being said.... no matter who it is, they should get the same rights any other marriage couple gets. The only people who cry that it's a crime against the marriage union for same sex relationships to exist, are the ones who aren't secure enough in there own sexuality to accept that people are all different with different likes and dislikes... turn on's and turn offs (in my oppinion anyway).



posted on Jun, 1 2007 @ 12:43 PM
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It amazes me that a subject like this should even be relevant. Speaking solely for myself, I could care less what your sexual preferences are. If you're into the same sex, who in the heck am I to judge you by it? It's not my cup of tea, but those who are gay have the right to enjoy the EXACT same rights that I do.



posted on Jun, 1 2007 @ 08:40 PM
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Originally posted by DCFusion
It's a shame we don't have the 'stars' in BTS, you surely would have gotten all five from me.


I believe this is the first time I have ever quoted myself. Anyway, now there are stars (sheesh, could swear there were no stars earlier). Anyhow, I clicked on the 'five stars' for ya!



posted on Jun, 1 2007 @ 09:35 PM
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Originally posted by lombozo
It amazes me that a subject like this should even be relevant. Speaking solely for myself, I could care less what your sexual preferences are. If you're into the same sex, who in the heck am I to judge you by it? It's not my cup of tea, but those who are gay have the right to enjoy the EXACT same rights that I do.


coming from Lombozo, that should really speak volumes. He hates almost everything. Ants, sharks, you name it.

If he hasn't got anything against people thinkin they're so cool, marrying their buddy and stuff, nobody else should have a beef, right Lombozo?



posted on Jun, 2 2007 @ 09:52 PM
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man the whole gay "issue" annoys me! why does it matter what OTHER people do in the privacy of their own bedrooms???

gay people are still PEOPLE too just like the rest of us many are successful individuals who just happen to date the same sex. whhhhhhhhhhy oh why does it bother others so much??? well im sure the whole religion debacle but still why do others even care just mind your own damn buisness and let them live their lives just like the rest of us!

for a country that claims to be so free and modern we are still quite prudeish.


i dont see why they shouldnt get the same rights and benefits as heterosexual married couples. like i said they live and work just like the rest of us. ughhhh



posted on Jun, 3 2007 @ 03:01 PM
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I am going to sound like everyone else here and say there is nothing wrong with people of the same sex being together or getting married.

3/4 of my friends are gay, and i prefer them most times. I like clubbing in gay bars more than the ordinary bars.

As i say to any person no matter their sex, as long as you are not sucking the face off each other in my presence then i don't mind, but please " i am sitting here you know!!"

And i have no problem with it. But i also respect the views of people who do not agree with it. Everyone has their beliefs as long as they do not make another's life a misery then i do not have a problem with their way of thinking.

Against or For.

Oni x x



posted on Jun, 3 2007 @ 06:46 PM
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admited i use to be the most homophobic person around
but then again after talking to people here i seem to have droped that attitude,

maybe one person bugs me but thats more to do with the way he acts

anyhow they are human like us all and deserve the same rights and ect so some people need to get a life and not really meddle in those of others





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