Explanation as to why CSETI has no credible video/photographic evidence

Though Burkes suggests that the ETs themselves prevent the cameras from working it seems that isn't always the case.

One of the infamous CSETI photographs which is actually a still image from a Sony digtal camcorder shows an insect flying close to the lens. Greer has tried to claim it is of extraterrestrial origin and calls it an 'energy communication anchor'(it is also known as- Alien Energy Anchor, Light Anchor, Greer's Big Rod).

A brief video is available to view online and seems to be narrated by a CSETI rep. He states: (emphasis is mine)

"Ok, what we’re looking at here is an image that occupies three frames of a movie camera that one of the participants during that week had going. Out of the 33* people that were there, there were a whole bunch of cameras. In fact if you look at the back you can see the tripod legs of one of them. Anyway this is on 3 frames and it’s 30 frame per second – so it’s one tenth of a second.

This object came into our group over Greer’s right shoulder and in the movie camera you can actually see his head move to his right looking up and following it down. And er… he told us later he was just seeing stuff all of the time and he didn’t want to bore us by pointing a lot of them out.

And this is one of them. And it looks like an energy communication anchor that is exhibiting itself in a sine wave helix-type pattern and he thinks it is a way of them anchoring themselves into our frequency to communicate with us and interface with us. At least that’s one of his ideas and he’s been doing this for a long time, so he’s probably right on.

But I want to show you that not only was this… are these things seen by our third eye and our charkas but they’re capable of being recorded on the ccds in these, er… cameras, digital cameras that we now have. So there you go."

So Burkes is wrong, video cameras, indeed whole bunches of video cameras do work in the presence of CSETI's so-called 'extraterrestrial activity'. Burkes' hypothesis is no doubt an attempt to cover the fact that CSETI have no footage of value. It would seem that 'Greer's Big Rod' is likely the most dramatic image in the CSETI vaults and even that is now banished to CSETI's dungeon of shame.

It's also very condescending of Greer to choose not to point out other 'stuff' to the fee paying attendees in case it bored them! What did he think they were there for? Why does he think they handed over $800?

*33 people=$26400

What M. Burkes meant I think is that, no cameras would work if the footage taken would endanger the owner. Again, you are misinterpreting or let just say, you interpret so it works your agenda and belief.

After listening to you over these boards, I find you are one of the most biased posters on these forums and I feel that conversing with you gets very old and boring Torsion.

And I wonder sometimes, how many people think that all you do is complain all day long and accomplish nothing.

Originally posted by ETDisclosure
What M. Burkes meant I think is that, no cameras would work if the footage taken would endanger the owner. Again, you are misinterpreting or let just say, you interpret so it works your agenda and belief.

After listening to you over these boards, I find you are one of the most biased posters on these forums and I feel that conversing with you gets very old and boring Torsion.

And I wonder sometimes, how many people think that all you do is complain all day long and accomplish nothing.

May I ask how this adds to the topic?

Don't bother to answer, it was a rhetorical question.

Originally posted by ETDisclosure
What M. Burkes meant I think is that, no cameras would work if the footage taken would endanger the owner. Again, you are misinterpreting or let just say, you interpret so it works your agenda and belief.

Not possible. Anyone from Cult Greer with footage of ET will never be harmed. Remember, ET will force their enemies to drop guns and pick up guitars. There is no danger to any member of Cult Greer.

See, you believe part of the dogma, ETDisclosure and you have to believe it all. But, when you believe it all, it contradicts itself. Leader Greer claims that ET protects him, so Leader Greer can not then claim that he will be in any danger from anyone.

I wish I had a sound-byte of a Kool-Aid can being opened.

Originally posted by torsion

So Burkes is wrong, video cameras, indeed whole bunches of video cameras do work in the presence of CSETI's so-called 'extraterrestrial activity'. Burkes' hypothesis is no doubt an attempt to cover the fact that CSETI have no footage of value. It would seem that 'Greer's Big Rod' is likely the most dramatic image in the CSETI vaults and even that is now banished to CSETI's dungeon of shame.

CSETI evidently have the same sort of footage that everyone else has - the typical bright lights in the sky, going 1000s of mph, or hovering motionless, making sudden 180 degree turns, etc.

I think Burkes is correct - for whatever reason, the ETs are not yet willing to allow themselves to be photographed/filmed up close and personal. Remember, they are sentient, civilized beings just like us, so they likely have their own laws and policies that govern that sort of thing.

And if it is true that it is the ETs controlling this, then Greer and CSETI can't be blamed for not having the kind of spectacular footage that everyone wants.

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
CSETI evidently have the same sort of footage that everyone else has - the typical bright lights in the sky, going 1000s of mph, or hovering motionless, making sudden 180 degree turns, etc.

I think Burkes is correct - for whatever reason, the ETs are not yet willing to allow themselves to be photographed/filmed up close and personal. Remember, they are sentient, civilized beings just like us, so they likely have their own laws and policies that govern that sort of thing.

And if it is true that it is the ETs controlling this, then Greer and CSETI can't be blamed for not having the kind of spectacular footage that everyone wants.

That's the problem, people wants Startrek like footage, when we could be totally off-track regarding the ET crafts and the occupants.
People have preconceptions and can't get out of the box thinking, maybe they are WRONG! In other word, been close minded.

We got to open up a bit, think outside the box, try to see all this as a whole, think differently... That's how things will move forward.

Originally posted by tezzajw
Not possible. Anyone from Cult Greer with footage of ET will never be harmed. Remember, ET will force their enemies to drop guns and pick up guitars. There is no danger to any member of Cult Greer.

See, you believe part of the dogma, ETDisclosure and you have to believe it all. But, when you believe it all, it contradicts itself. Leader Greer claims that ET protects him, so Leader Greer can not then claim that he will be in any danger from anyone.

I wish I had a sound-byte of a Kool-Aid can being opened.

Another person with the attitude ALL or NOTHING. You guys have to stop doing that.

The difference between you and me is simple. You don't want to hear anything. No matter how much good the footage will come out of DP or CSETI. No matter who will come with the data. You are stubbornly opposed to Steven Greer and nothing will change that.
In fact, I don't even understand why we bother keeping this conversation going. Waste of time.

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
CSETI evidently have the same sort of footage that everyone else has - the typical bright lights in the sky, going 1000s of mph,

satellites?

or hovering motionless,

stars?

making sudden 180 degree turns, etc.

moths and other insects? yawn...

I think Burkes is correct - for whatever reason, the ETs are not yet willing to allow themselves to be photographed/filmed up close and personal.

Tell this to Greer's role model and inspiration, Billy Meier and all the other contactees who claim to have photographed ETs. Do you think Greer and his band of merry men are the only ones telling the truth and all the others are liars?

Remember, they are sentient, civilized beings just like us, so they likely have their own laws and policies that govern that sort of thing.

What do you mean, 'remember'? You speak as though you know them personally!

And if it is true that it is the ETs controlling this, then Greer and CSETI can't be blamed for not having the kind of spectacular footage that everyone wants.

Greer states that thousands of his followers have met extraterrestrails and taken photos and video footage. Out of the thousands of photos he claims to have access to he can only come up with his 'big rod' and a moth. I have yet to hear one of these 'thousands of people' admit to having met an ET.

Not one witness has come forward, not one valid image has been provided!

And didn't you say you were going to give up on Greer if the 'G7' contact he promised didn't take place this year?

Time is moving on!

Originally posted by torsion

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
CSETI evidently have the same sort of footage that everyone else has - the typical bright lights in the sky, going 1000s of mph,

satellites?

or hovering motionless,

stars?

making sudden 180 degree turns, etc.

moths and other insects? yawn...

Last time I checked, moths and insects still obey the laws of inertia and they can't make perfect 180 degree turns.

Satellites, stars, moths and insects may be able to do some of these things, but not all.

I think Burkes is correct - for whatever reason, the ETs are not yet willing to allow themselves to be photographed/filmed up close and personal.

Tell this to Greer's role model and inspiration, Billy Meier and all the other contactees who claim to have photographed ETs. Do you think Greer and his band of merry men are the only ones telling the truth and all the others are liars?

I don't know! That's why I keep talking about getting a rep out there to find out!

Remember, they are sentient, civilized beings just like us, so they likely have their own laws and policies that govern that sort of thing.

What do you mean, 'remember'? You speak as though you know them personally!

Well, that's coming from Cliff Stone. And other alleged contactees.

And if it is true that it is the ETs controlling this, then Greer and CSETI can't be blamed for not having the kind of spectacular footage that everyone wants.

Greer states that thousands of his followers have met extraterrestrails and taken photos and video footage. Out of the thousands of photos he claims to have access to he can only come up with his 'big rod' and a moth. I have yet to hear one of these 'thousands of people' admit to having met an ET.

So put all that brainpower of yours to work, and talk to them about it. See if you can get them to provide more evidence, or at least provide an explanation that makes sense as to why they haven't.

As for why the trainees don't publically talk about meeting ETs - maybe it's because they get treated like Richard did, if they do.

Will you talk to CSETI, torsion? Or only keep blasting away at them behind their backs? A couple of minutes to type out a brief email is all it takes.... and if you actually refuse to talk to them, that will look like you have some sort of agenda.

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
Will you talk to CSETI, torsion? Or only keep blasting away at them behind their backs? A couple of minutes to type out a brief email is all it takes.... and if you actually refuse to talk to them, that will look like you have some sort of agenda.

I'm not talking about them behind their backs because this is a public forum. Any CSETI rep can read what I say. Any CSETI rep can join in the discussion and challenge my opinions. However, their absence seems to suggest they don't want to talk in an open environment, one which they don't control.

If they had a public forum on their site I'd go there and debate things with them - but they restrict discussion to fee-paying members, if indeed, members are allowed to discuss anything.

You have emailed Debbie on several occasions - in what way did that communication benefit you? What did you learn from her replies?

Challenge your Opinion? Let me laugh.
You keep dodging questions and you are rude on top of that.
I don't see why people would want to bother with you.

Originally posted by ETDisclosure
The difference between you and me is simple. You don't want to hear anything. No matter how much good the footage will come out of DP or CSETI.

No, that's false. I am very satisfied with lots of credibile UFO cases and I do believe many of them. However, I have not seen ANYTHING come from Cult Greer, other than the request for money - and moths.

No matter who will come with the data. You are stubbornly opposed to Steven Greer and nothing will change that.
In fact, I don't even understand why we bother keeping this conversation going. Waste of time.

There have already been enough convincing cases for me to believe, no thanks to Leader Greer. He propogates lies at the cost of financial misfortune for his Cult.

Well, don't respond to me and the conversation won't keep going. Just because I won't drink the Kool-Aid, it doesn't mean that I can't have an opinion about it.

Originally posted by torsion

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
Will you talk to CSETI, torsion? Or only keep blasting away at them behind their backs? A couple of minutes to type out a brief email is all it takes.... and if you actually refuse to talk to them, that will look like you have some sort of agenda.

I'm not talking about them behind their backs because this is a public forum.

A public forum which they don't read and have no official representation on.... so it's essentially attacking and making fun of them behind their backs.

Any CSETI rep can read what I say. Any CSETI rep can join in the discussion and challenge my opinions. However, their absence seems to suggest they don't want to talk in an open environment, one which they don't control.

Well, you're implying that they're obligated to come here and talk to us and defend themselves, which isn't true at all. Again, the impression I get is that they have a lot on their plate and they don't have the time for such things, and they don't care if they are ridiculed and condemned on sites like this one.

However, that doesn't stop us from talking to them and asking them questions, and indeed Debbie usually wrote back to me within a day, sometimes within a few hours....

You have emailed Debbie on several occasions - in what way did that communication benefit you? What did you learn from her replies?

I've already shared all the information I got.

She admitted that they have the "Gulf Breeze" footage that Dr. Burkes speaks of. So either they are lying, or they really are sitting on footage and other evidence that they haven't made available on the internet. Neither possibility makes them look very good, of course....

When I expressed my exasperation about that, she reiterated what Dr. Greer always says, that they are really just this ragtag little band of volunteers with the weight of the world on their shoulders (not some lavish cult swimming in millions of dollars, as some on here would have you believe).

On the bright side, when I asked her about the possibility of a rep from ATS attending a training, she had no objections to that. And she told me that the NDA has to do with protecting the identities of all the trainees, and ensuring that CSETI has equal rights to any audio/video evidence produced. So CSETI trainees are free to talk and write about their experiences, and even share photos and video with permission.

Now, as to whether the ATS staff is cool with that, I don't know. They haven't commented on it either way, even though I requested that they make a public statement about it.

I still don't understand why CSETI don't post more of their evidence, if they admit to having it. Something weird is going on there. It could be, as Dr. Burkes suggested, that Greer has been ordered to lay low with CSETI and not make huge waves with it yet.

I'm kind of hesitant to get involved with this any more, as I already stuck my neck way out on this, but I was hoping you could try to get a real explanation from her as to why they don't post their evidence online....

If you decide to email her, make sure you're polite about it....

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
A public forum which they don't read and have no official representation on.... so it's essentially attacking and making fun of them behind their backs.

No, it's a public forum. Nothing goes on behind their backs. You don't need to be a registered member to read these forums, they are in the public domain. How do you know that Cult Greer has no official representation here? Do you know all of the Cultist's details and who they are? If you don't, then your speculation is unwarranted.

Well, you're implying that they're obligated to come here and talk to us and defend themselves, which isn't true at all. Again, the impression I get is that they have a lot on their plate and they don't have the time for such things, and they don't care if they are ridiculed and condemned on sites like this one.

They're not obligated to come here at all. The impression that I get is that Cult Greer is fraudulent. They won't come here, as they will be shot to pieces with evidence and facts, to which their lies and promises will always fail. Cult Greer has NOTHING on its plate, as it has done NOTHING in the past six years.

However, that doesn't stop us from talking to them and asking them questions, and indeed Debbie usually wrote back to me within a day, sometimes within a few hours....

Talking to them would give them a false sense of credibility. We don't want that, do we? Fake organisations, like Cult Greer, thrive on being associated with credible sources in the hope that some of it rubs off on to them. Sorry, no dealing with the dogmatic liars.

She admitted that they have the "Gulf Breeze" footage that Dr. Burkes speaks of. So either they are lying, or they really are sitting on footage and other evidence that they haven't made available on the internet. Neither possibility makes them look very good, of course....

Mouthpiece Debbie states they have proof, but they're not showing it. The Anti-Disclosure Project at its best.

When I expressed my exasperation about that, she reiterated what Dr. Greer always says, that they are really just this ragtag little band of volunteers with the weight of the world on their shoulders (not some lavish cult swimming in millions of dollars, as some on here would have you believe).

Of course the leadership group of the Cult is small. There is less cost that way and fewer people to take a share in dividing the profits. The weight of the world IS NOT on their shoulders. They are sanctioned and approved by ET to perform all of their Universal Peace Ambassadorial Activities. Cult Greer should be the most enlightened group on this planet, secure in the knowledge that mere prayers will result in ET forcing their enemies to play guitars instead of AK47s. See, there's too many contradictions for anyone to even try to take them seriously - except the zealots.

On the bright side, when I asked her about the possibility of a rep from ATS attending a training...

There is no bright side to Cult Greer. It is insidious, deceptive evil. Dark and twisted with dogmatic liars.

Neither possibility makes them look very good, of course....

I still don't understand why CSETI don't post more of their evidence, if they admit to having it. Something weird is going on there. It could be, as Dr. Burkes suggested, that Greer has been ordered to lay low with CSETI and not make huge waves with it yet.

You are on the right way MrdDstrbr, all that is missing now is to make the next logical step and draw a conclusion from what you observe. I think, that you'll have to admit, that there is a VERY strong possibility, that tezzajw and torsion are telling you the truth. Sure, none of us know for 100% what's behind the greerthing, so it's a question of probability and as it seems now, it doesn't look good for greer.

And let me ask one question again - why have the photos been removed so quick, if greer

don't care if they are ridiculed and condemned on sites like this one.

Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
A public forum which they don't read and have no official representation on.... so it's essentially attacking and making fun of them behind their backs.

No, it's a public forum. Nothing goes on behind their backs. You don't need to be a registered member to read these forums, they are in the public domain.

That doesn't mean that they actually take the time to read them.

How do you know that Cult Greer has no official representation here?

Because no one has ever popped up going "Hi ATS, this is Dr. Greer!" or "This is the CSETI coordinator!" or "Hi, I am a representative of CSETI!".

The ONLY CSETI trainee we had on here who stood up for Dr. Greer and CSETI.... got crucified. Hmmm...........

However, that doesn't stop us from talking to them and asking them questions, and indeed Debbie usually wrote back to me within a day, sometimes within a few hours....

Talking to them would give them a false sense of credibility. We don't want that, do we?

Well, no, evidently you, and certain others, DON'T want to give them any credibility. You attack and accuse and ridicule and condemn them behind their backs, but refuse to actually talk to them, ask them questions, negotiate with them....

HMMM............

Originally posted by Phil J. Fry

I still don't understand why CSETI don't post more of their evidence, if they admit to having it. Something weird is going on there. It could be, as Dr. Burkes suggested, that Greer has been ordered to lay low with CSETI and not make huge waves with it yet.

You are on the right way MrdDstrbr, all that is missing now is to make the next logical step and draw a conclusion from what you observe. I think, that you'll have to admit, that there is a VERY strong possibility, that tezzajw and torsion are telling you the truth. Sure, none of us know for 100% what's behind the greerthing, so it's a question of probability and as it seems now, it doesn't look good for greer.

Well, no, I think you, and tezzajw and torsion and many others, are too quick to jump to conclusions. Sure there's some negative and suspicious evidence surrounding Greer and his projects - but there's also a LOT of positive evidence!

A very bad habit that I see among many ATS members is that they have a predisposition and bias for "debunking". A little bit of negative evidence comes up and right away they go "Aha! HOAX! FRAUD! This person has been completely and thoroughly debunked!" - while totally ignoring all the positive evidence! Skeptics and "critical thinkers" are praised, while "believers" are ridiculed.

For me, there's just too much positive evidence surrounding Greer and his projects to just jump to the conclusion that it's all a giant lie....

And let me ask one question again - why have the photos been removed so quick, if greer

don't care if they are ridiculed and condemned on sites like this one.

Because I emailed the CSETI coordinator and told her they were being heavily ridiculed, and she took them down.

But her attitude was like "Oh well, to hell with you guys then!", and not "Uh-oh, they're on to us now, run away!"

*sigh* i thought i saw hope

but there's also a LOT of positive evidence!

Where ? Where is ONE piece of 100% evidence ? Come on, bring just ONE piece, that is not insect or hearsay or "orbs". The "evidence" greer showed so far is on par with the evidence, scientology brought for evil overlord xenu. Is greer about to start "scientology 2 - the love way" ?

A very bad habit that I see among many ATS members is that they have a predisposition and bias for "debunking".

To change a few words - a very bad habit that i see among many "believers" is that they have predisposition and bias for "wanting to believe, no matter what evidence shows"

Greerists have a faith which borders hard on religion, the "critical thinkers" are looking for the unbiased truth.

But her attitude was like "Oh well, to hell with you guys then!"

Aw, come on. You already said, that greerists don't give a damn about what's happening on ATS and now, they do care ? Did thay post the pictures only for us there ? What about the believers, that can't see the amazing evidence anymore ? Doesn't make any sense imo.

Originally posted by Phil J. Fry
*sigh* i thought i saw hope

but there's also a LOT of positive evidence!

Where ? Where is ONE piece of 100% evidence ? Come on, bring just ONE piece, that is not insect or hearsay or "orbs". The "evidence" greer showed so far is on par with the evidence, scientology brought for evil overlord xenu. Is greer about to start "scientology 2 - the love way" ?

*sigh*. I've been presenting the evidence for months now.

sparse video footage:

Early footage of Steven Greer/CSETI, wherein a news anchor accompanies them on an expedition, goes on NATIONAL TV and says "I DID see a UFO!"
2002 Triangle UFO footage

Written testimonials from Steven Greer, Shari Adamiak, Debbie Foch, Dr. Joe Burkes, Prof. Ted Loder and others (satisfied CSETI members)

Dr. Burkes' article which was the original subject of this thread

The complete lack of evidence of angry CSETI trainees who feel defrauded by Dr. Greer (go ahead and try to find some, I dare you!)

Article by the late Sarah McClendon, the famed White House correspondent

quotes of interest from the article:

"Dr. Steven Greer, an emergency room physician, who for eight years has briefed and been briefed by government and U.N. officials on the subject of unidentified objects in U.S. airspace"

"Dr. Greer is the International Director of the Center for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence and leads a working team of around 200 composed of CSETI members and associates, government employee witnesses, consultants and government contacts. Their hope is to get Congress to hold hearings and take testimony from witnesses. He has explained his conclusions to a number of Congressional members."

"Not publicized but true is that the Clinton administration, soon after coming to office, had many briefings on the subject. Laurence Rockefeller provided the information for the President and Mrs. Clinton. Others provided documents and verbal briefings to presidential advisors Jack Gibbons (science), Bruce Lindsay (personal), Anthony Lake (national security) and Vice President Albert Gore. About the same time a three hour briefing was given by Dr. Steven Greer to the sitting Director of the CIA, Admiral Woolsey."

Plus all the evidence from TDP, the fact that Greer has surrounded himself with credible officials, and high-profile credible people keep giving him props.

Then there's the CSETI Non-Disclosure Agreement, which ATS members have raged against for months, maybe YEARS: "The Disclosure Cult that makes you sign a Non-Disclosure Agreement! FRAUD!" - and yet, a simple two-minute email to the CSETI coordinator revealed that the NDA is not a problem and CSETI trainees are free to speak!

Then there's the fact that the CSETI coordinator had no objections to a rep from ATS attending a training, which indicates to me that they have nothing to hide.

A very bad habit that I see among many ATS members is that they have a predisposition and bias for "debunking".

To change a few words - a very bad habit that i see among many "believers" is that they have predisposition and bias for "wanting to believe, no matter what evidence shows"

And what's wrong with wanting to believe in incredible, wonderful new things?

While others see HOAXES and FRAUDS everywhere, I see possibility. It is extreme arrogance to think that we already know everything about the universe and all the different kinds of lifeforms and technology in it....


[edit on 20-6-2007 by MrdDstrbr]

I hereby proclaim, that i had dinner with Bigfoot !

Is that evidence for anything ?! Should i show some moth pictures to proof it ?

I already said, that the original DP has been the thing, that re-ignited my interest in ufo, but six years later it has become a joke, thanks to greer and his vectoring alien/ambassador of the universe b/s. He did a great job in discrediting the subjects to the public. Thank you for that, greer.

If the NDA is only meant to protect the "ambassadors", why does it say something different ? Do you really think, when getting sued, you can come up with "B-b-b-but Debbie said" ?

It is extreme arrogance to think that we already know everything about the universe and all the different kinds of lifeforms and technology in it....

But isn't this exactly what greer does ? As much as i know, in a sober state of mind, i never proclaimed myself to be an ambassador of the universe, being the one contact person for aliens.