Gravy's "Ground Zeros" (ATS VIDEO TEST)

The secret of a long-standing "ATS top-secret skunkworks" project can now be revealed... our very own video player (BETA V0.2). Talented admin ZeddicusZulZorander has been providing the Flash expertise for this early trial edition.

An important aspect of video on ATS will be thread-integreation, and we're providing a preliminary test video so that we can further test and enhance our custom programming for integrating video. The below video has been provided by permission, and is sure to spark conversation.



This video highlights much of the 9/11 conspiracy debate that happens right here on ATS. A dedicated and passionate "conspiracy debunker" documents his encounters with the New York 9/11 Truth group, on the scene at Ground Zero in Manhattan.

CAUTION: Video contains extreme anti-conspiracy opinions.

As is our style on ATS, we encourage all sides of the debate on the topics we examine as a methodology to understand important issues. This video represents a degree of "extreme conspiracy skepticism" not often encountered here, and will certainly be a valuable piece of information as we continue to examine the facts we believe point to conspiracies.



Please use this thread to discuss the content of the video, and start a new Board Questions thread if you want to know more about our plans for video on ATS, BTS, and AbovePolitics.



[edit on 27/5/2007 by SkepticOverlord]

Great!!! I hope to tune in to WATS-TV a lot, on many subjects. The future is looking better and better.

And kudos to those involved in this project. Seems to be a first class job.

Wish I could give you each and all some reward!

Nice shiny new video player!

AS far as the video itself, bleh, not really a whole lot of information contained in it 1st of all...! Mostly bickering and

"He started it"!

and...

"NO HE started IT!"

You'll have extremists on both sides of the fence...

At least the truthers as they call it in the video produce some points that people can debate on, this video however produced no evidence, statements or video news footage clip etc. However pretty slick music!

Seems like a retribution video to me...

[edit on 27-5-2007 by greatlakes]

[edit on 27-5-2007 by greatlakes]

Ooooooooooooo.....nice vid player!
Top shelf job, people.

The video really didn't add anything to the debate.
I thought it was pretty funny, though, and did a pretty good job of
making those "truther" guys look silly.

Can you be the one video player provider that has the ability to download videos??!! Of course it would be disclaimered as being for research reasons only...

It's just a pain to use all of these outside scripts to try and grab a video for analysis etc...

I must give credit where it's due. He did do a great job of making those people look like idiots. More importantly, they probably are idiots.

I come on here 3-4 times a week for an hour or two and I could answer his questions more thoroughly than those who supposedly devote their life to it.

Also, while he does a great job critiquing others, I didn't see the part where he displays his facts. That would have made for a much more interesting video. Videos of a guy walking around with a camera being a jerk to people are pretty much common place on the internet. Come up with a new idea please.

Oh, and the new MP is pretty boss.

Oh do you want to see some of Gravy's facts?

It isn't like this is his only contribution to debunking the 9/11 conspiracy industry.

Here ya go--

wtc7lies.googlepages.com...

My problem with Gravy and people like him (I won't mention any names) is that it seams like they get their jollies off by "debunking" any and all 9/11 related issues. What drives these people to be so "viscous" when it comes to 9/11? What drives someone to take the time to make videos/create websites etc. to "debunk" conspiracies? They believe that these conspiracies are all "crazy" and we are part of a "cult" but yet they are driven (by something) to spend their time "debunking" something they feel is crazy and part of cultish behavior? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Originally posted by Griff
My problem with Gravy and people like him (I won't mention any names) is that it seams like they get their jollies off by "debunking" any and all 9/11 related issues. What drives these people to be so "viscous" when it comes to 9/11? What drives someone to take the time to make videos/create websites etc. to "debunk" conspiracies? They believe that these conspiracies are all "crazy" and we are part of a "cult" but yet they are driven (by something) to spend their time "debunking" something they feel is crazy and part of cultish behavior? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Because 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists aren't just "asking Questions" they are trying to actively convert people to their views.. erronious, ill concieved views that are based on lies and half-truths.

Dangerous views that relieve culpability from the Middle-eastern radicals, and place it on the USA. Sounds like a mindset that could have only been the goal of Al-Queda in the first place. How do I know if the conspiracy zealots aren't actually Al-Queda operatives using the internet to wound America further? Or fringe groups in America that support Al-Queda, Hezzbolla, and Hamas, and posting this Anti-American propaganda WORLDWIDE, to not only drum up support for their cause but to rally support against the USA ?

You accuse my brothers and sisters of Mass murder, you had best have an airtight case. Not just a couple of-- "Gee that looks funny" or "Never before in history--yadda, yadda"

Well IMO this video just shows one man badgering the 911 truth guys. It seems very juvenile to put up signs that have no thought put into them or reason behind them other than to piss these guys off. Oh yeah, if you want to make a serious point in a video don't fill it with audio clips from looney toons, it makes the whole video seem like a joke. This guy just seems like a jerk who has little or nothing to do in his life but ridicule others' points of view rather than coming up with his own facts.

For information and discussion of the new AboveTopSecret.com video player only, please see this discussion...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Griff
My problem with Gravy and people like him (I won't mention any names) is that it seams like they get their jollies off by "debunking" any and all 9/11 related issues. What drives these people to be so "viscous" when it comes to 9/11?

(My personal opinion)


They can't accept that the government would do such a thing.

They are led by their denial.

Wow, these videos are chalk FULL of copyrighted material.... Music and Samples All from a wide range of Huge companies willing to go after and sue the pants off any person who violates their copyrights.

I'm surprised!

It seems more provacative than anything. Perhaps thats the whole point. Provocation. Make these paticular 9/11 truthers look like complete raving idiots. Which really isn't that hard to do in these guys case.

Sure, the 9/11 truth movement has gone off the rails of a crazy train and is now filled with alot of left wing extremists like Ward Churchill and other assorted scum. Alot of half baked nonsense theories have found their way in. So have alot of thinly veiled anti-American agendas.

That does not discount evidence of a 9/11 conspiracy in general. The 9/11 truthers can muddy the waters, and the debunkers can have a field day with some of their more nonsensical claims. It doesn't change the undisputed facts about 9/11 that make you go "huh?"

BTW, is this the launch of new ATS internet TV?

I am actually surprised to see these types of videos on ATS. For a while I figured that ATS had been completely engulfed by 911 truthers or whatever they want to be called. I don't have a problem with anyone who wants to debate 911 but we see these same bullying tactics here on a message board also.

Originally posted by GwionX

You accuse my brothers and sisters of Mass murder, you had best have an airtight case. Not just a couple of-- "Gee that looks funny" or "Never before in history--yadda, yadda"

So GwionX would you apply this level of scrutiny "airtight case" to the notion Islamofacists working completely independently pulled off 911?

Is that case airtight? No anomilies to speak of? Everything is easily explained using Occams Razor? Nothing more to see now, just move along and don't ask questions, right?

Sometimes I'm baffled by what you post here, do you want to know the truth?

mark accuses les of taking down a sign.
what gives mark the right to the space? does HE own it? he implies that once his sign is up, it becomes a landMARK. misdirection: a hallmark of good disinfo.

i hate gravy. it's just fat and flour. it's not good for you.

worst video ever, slower than a turtle in molasses. and i'm only a (wasted) ten minutes into it.

as my civic duty, i'm going to watch the whole thing.

*EDIT* :



okay, no i'm not. i just downloaded the pdf of fathead's 'logic', and it turns out i couldn't get past page one on that, either.
fatty bin laden is not the real bin laden, and even his 'better' views CLEARLY show it's not the same guy.

any decent artist could tell you. different skull, different beard coloration.

so, i proved him wrong on his first point, and anything else is just MORE FAT.




[edit on 27-5-2007 by billybob]

Originally posted by GwionX
Because 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists aren't just "asking Questions" they are trying to actively convert people to their views.. erronious, ill concieved views that are based on lies and half-truths.

Dangerous views that relieve culpability from the Middle-eastern radicals, and place it on the USA. Sounds like a mindset that could have only been the goal of Al-Queda in the first place. How do I know if the conspiracy zealots aren't actually Al-Queda operatives using the internet to wound America further? Or fringe groups in America that support Al-Queda, Hezzbolla, and Hamas, and posting this Anti-American propaganda WORLDWIDE, to not only drum up support for their cause but to rally support against the USA ?

WOW and here I thought that the human race was full of people with their blinders on, or just brain washed, and here you come along...

You are absolutely right...this is exactly as I see it too***...

***This is not a sarcastic post***



Dude/Dudette I'm going to give you a WATS just for that post...

Ok...what did you guys do with the WATS link ???



[edit on 27-5-2007 by Jedi_Master]

Originally posted by GwionX
erronious, ill concieved views that are based on lies and half-truths.

Bull crap. The de-bunkers, nor NIST, can even account for the simple physics problems with the official version of how the towers collapsed.
The tilting and rotating of WTC2, the lack of resistance from undamaged structural eliments, the pulverising of concrete etc...

If you can I'd love to hear it...Just a simple explanation with no spin or dancing around the point.

Anything you can't answer for becomes lies and half-truths, or is just ignored.

[edit on 27/5/2007 by ANOK]

Originally posted by ANOK
The tilting and rotating of WTC2,

Here's a decent video that shows a close-up...