Originally posted by Muaddib
That is the history of "small autonomous communities/tribes", which is one of the reasons why we created large societies. In large societies everyone has to abide by the same laws if they want to be part of such large communities.

But who has the morale right to tell me and you what laws we should abide by and live under?

me and you both have different views on how we should live our lives, a government shouldn't be telling us what is morality and acceptable. A universal view on how a society should live is not democratic.

regarding Chavez....

He may not be a socialist or communist, but he is apart of the authoritarian left. I have many friends who declare themselves apart of that dogma. It's belief in a "perfect society" and control from the center.

I am confused as to why anyone would want to align themselves with the likes of Chaves, or Castro, I wonder what Glover or Sheehan are thinking?

The chickens will come home to roost.

Originally posted by pepsi78

The 2 economical sistems have bad parts and good parts.
Capitalism has bad points just as much as Socialism does, want me to argue on that?

Yes Capitalism has is flaws too, I never said it doesn't, but Capitalism is a whole lot better than Communism, or true Socialism.

Originally posted by pepsi78
You should wach that movie made by michael moore called "roger and me"
It's a story about a town called flynt, the town turns and looks like a zombie, like a dead man.

Please don't insult my intelligence by asking me to watch one of "Moore's Lier-dramas".... Moore is just out to make a buck with exagerations and lies. Nothing more, nothing less.

Originally posted by pepsi78
In my opinion capitalism is good as long as there is the spirit of fair play, but 100% capitalism will bring down every one except big corportations.
Since you depend on big corporations that eat small corporations you become a corporate slave, this is the future, because except big corporations there will be nothing else, they will rule your life or you will starve if you're not slave corpotate.

Big corporations can be a problem, but that is why there is a need of a representative Republic, such as the U.S., or some government which has representatives for the people.

Now, the people themselves need to get more involved with their representatives, which is the biggest problem we have had for a while now. People are too complacent and don't want to spent any time having to do anything with the government, or you have some people which have the defeatist mentality, claiming talking to your representatives will do nothing. That's where people are wrong, YES YOU CAN DO SOMETHING. GET YOUR BUTT OFF THAT COUCH IN FRONT OF THAT TV SET, AND GET MORE INVOLVED WITH THE GOVERNMENT, IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH WHAT IS GOING ON.

What a lot of people these days do is they go to a bar, or talk to a friend or even respond in forums and vent their frustration there... That is not going to solve anything.

I am not saying it is not good to talk to people, and discuss different ideas and such, but if you want something done in society, or by the government, you have to get involved.

[edit on 29-5-2007 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
I am confused as to why anyone would want to align themselves with the likes of Chaves, or Castro, I wonder what Glover or Sheehan are thinking?

The chickens will come home to roost.

No one likes chaves but there is more to this, it's about the super heroes asigned by bush coming to the rescue the venesuelans.
People just don't like propaganda, and people will seem that they are taking sides with chaves which of course is not true.
No one likes chaves , and also no one seems to like super heroes any more, if some one is going to take down chaves let it be the venesuelans.

Originally posted by infinite

But who has the morale right to tell me and you what laws we should abide by and live under?

me and you both have different views on how we should live our lives, a government shouldn't be telling us what is morality and acceptable. A universal view on how a society should live is not democratic.

Then you are pretty much advocating going back to having small tribes, and resolving all our problems by stealing from the neighbors when our resources are low, or waging small raids/battles to fight for resources.

It has been tried and done for thousands of years.

Originally posted by infinite
regarding Chavez....

He may not be a socialist or communist, but he is apart of the authoritarian left. I have many friends who declare themselves apart of that dogma. It's belief in a "perfect society" and control from the center.

There is no such thing as a "perfect society". Utopias are just an idea which will never exist. There is no such thing as a "perfect man", hence there will never be an "utopia".

We all have different opinions because we are all different people.

Small autonomous communities, if they are only a few will work. But in large scales it does not work because conflicts/wars will arise as each community claims resources that they need to survive.

Chavez is a perfect example of a true Socialist/Communist. Socialism, true Socialism that is, is the first step towards Communism, be thankful that your country, and some others decided just to take somethings from Socialism, and didn't transform all the way into a Communist system.

[edit on 29-5-2007 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by pepsi78
No one likes chaves but there is more to this, it's about the super heroes asigned by bush coming to the rescue the venesuelans.
People just don't like propaganda, and people will seem that they are taking sides with chaves which of course is not true.
No one likes chaves , and also no one seems to like super heroes any more, if some one is going to take down chaves let it be the venesuelans.

American superheroes?....

What are you talking about?

Chavez makes many claims that are just lies... He is shutting down every communication media in Venezuela that has criticized him, claiming they were promoting his assassination, when there is no proof of such a claim...

That is what Chavez tells the world, but if you look at the new laws put in by the Chavistas, no Venezuelan can even criticize Chavez, or other Chavistas in power.

Chavez is making sure all oposition is silenced before more and more Venezuelans realize what has happened. Even though probably half of the population already know and oppose this.

[edit on 29-5-2007 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
I am confused as to why anyone would want to align themselves with the likes of Chaves, or Castro, I wonder what Glover or Sheehan are thinking?

The chickens will come home to roost.

Well interesting you should bring up Sheehan, she was on the news today bellyaching about being broke, she said she's quiting the activist role, she said she's broke, her kids hate her, it cost her marriage, so now she quit's. I dont know about Glover he never was a relavant voice IMHO anyway.

These people are long on wind, but short on substance. if your going to listen to hollywood on these issues, you might as well consider everyother source as well what about Pat Robertson remember what he said?? he called for Hogo Chavez to be taken out...............Hummmmm

he called for Hogo Chavez to be taken out...............Hummmmm

OH, he did, didn't he?

The Venezuelan's should have seen this coming, wouldn't you think?

Originally posted by Stormdancer777

he called for Hogo Chavez to be taken out...............Hummmmm

OH, he did, didn't he?

The Venezuelan's should have seen this coming, wouldn't you think?

Yes I would think so , anyway many people thought that Pat Robertson was way out of line for saying such a thing, myself included, but in hindsight maybe he was right, I mean many of the Venezuelan's might agree with Pat Robertson's assessment NOW! Scary huh.

I'm no Pat Robertson fan or anything just an observation that's all.

I wonder if Pat Robertson has seen the new dictatorship in the US?

Any mention of it?

Originally posted by dgtempe
I wonder if Pat Robertson has seen the new dictatorship in the US?

Any mention of it?

Toooouche' DG, I wonder why were not hearing anyone speak out on that one huh. the rich wont squak untill they start losing their money. you can bet on that.

Originally posted by Muaddib
Chavez is a perfect example of a true Socialist/Communist. Socialism, true Socialism that is, is the first step towards Communism, be thankful that your country, and some others decided just to take somethings from Socialism, and didn't transform all the way into a Communist system.

Marxism is the only form of socialism that advocates the transformation from a capitalist to a socialist then a communist system. Not all socialist believe in such a transformation.

Originally posted by pepsi78

Why don't you talk about the claims of Chavez, among some other revolutionary/Communists like yourself, who claim "the world will be destroyed because of Capitalism and hence Capitalism must be overthrowed"?...

I don't think Souljah is a comunist, you are begining to sound just like bush, labeling people as one.
So if your not 100% corporate slime you are a comunist I see.
I don't think you have learned alot on all this time that you spent in the US.
You have an old mentality imprinted in you, you refuse other views, you your self sound just like a comunist.
Of course for you there is only one type of democracy in the world for you, and when people disagree with you, you call them comunists.

Muaddib is pointing out the fact that Venezuela/Souljah is the pot calling the kettle black. Why don't you address that issue instead of attacking Muaddib for his strong beliefs?

It's so ironic - people always want to point the finger back at the US when a claim of wrongdoing is made against another nation. But when the same is done to them, they resort to ad hominem attacks.

Originally posted by sbob
I think if foreign influence/funds were being used on the now closed tv station, then the closing down could be justified.

Al Jazeera now has broadcast rights inside the US. Should they be closed down?

Let's not stop there... how about the BBC? Why should they be allowed to broadcast on our airwaves?

Communications Minister Willian Lara said Globovision had called for the death of Mr Chavez by airing footage of the 1981 assassination attempt against Pope John Paul II with the song "This Does Not Stop Here" sung by Ruben Blades, now Panama's tourism minister.

"The conclusion of the specialists ... is that (in this segment) they are inciting the assassination of the president of Venezuela," Mr Lara said, as he filed a lawsuit against the news network at the state prosecutor's office.

From previous post source.

I do not really see the connection right off the top of my head, but who knows what will come about in the court of law.

BBC is a publicly funded broadcast corporation, just like the new one that has been opened. And if you did not read, RCTV will still actually be available on cable, so the station was not actually shut down, simply denied its public broadcast license. They are not the same.

Well as far as I know, what is happening right now in Venezuela is simply a period of Anrachy as the country switches into a new form of government. Happens all the time in Africa.

We can only know how it turns out by waiting a few years and seeing what happens.

[edit on 5/30/2007 by DYepes]

He's even threatening to seize the CNN assets there and throw them out of the country.

Since he's taking American company's assets there, can't the U.S. seize Citgo assets owned by Venezuela in this country? I think that should be looked into.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Since he's taking American company's assets there, can't the U.S. seize Citgo assets owned by Venezuela in this country? I think that should be looked into.

I think you are correct,

but I doubt it will be a wise move to lower your standards to the level of Chavez.