America Land Of The Scared

Mushroom -- What I am saying is in no way "defending" this country.. if you think that, then you don't read any of my posts on this forum.

However I will not succumb to and allow the blatant biased opinions of one person dictate the discussion. You either want a real discussion about the real problems in America, or you can follow your own irrational logic and we can instead bicker back and forth because you accept nothing unless it is "America is weak and afraid"...

I agree fully with Intrepid -- it is not terrorist that we fear, but for the most part, our own government.. Dems, Reps, Indy's, its all the same, they all think the other is out to get them.

And I agree 100% with road.. its not that we are so afraid that this is happening to us --- its instead, we are not afraid enough, we don't feel our selves in enough danger to make a change.

And maybe it is because we really are not in that great of danger.. instead, we balance on the edge of a cliff, with few decisions dictating which way we go.. the cliff is a flat surface, everything is fine, we will manage, but one wrong move, one move ALLOWED by the people, by the free states of this union, and we fall from flat solid ground into the abyss with incredible blinding speed that will have its impact in every section of society, and with it the demise of the current age in which America resides. It is the prevention of the inevitable fall that we should strive for, to keep the status quo. To think America right now is a police state, or near one is laughable, those who think George is a dictator have never seen tyranny.. and one false move, America could very well land in that path..

I am not defending this nation because I refuse to go along with your biased liberal propaganda, fueled by the hate and lack of reason, lack of insight and a lack of will to actually understand the workings of America.

Everything should be viewed in a greater picture. Does America have problems? Of course. Is it as bad as you think? No. Can it be? Yes, and more so, rather easily at that.

But to say its a hell hole RIGHT NOW.. would be a lie, and unjust calculation of current events.

You may not like the conservative agenda, you may not like war, you may not like big businesses. Does that mean America is going to hell in a hand basket because you don't agree?

NO.

If I where you, I would stay away from the bandwagon.

I think you'll find that most Americans are not scared, nor are they especially brave; they're just people...no more, no less. Americans, at least the ones I know, and being an American, I know quite a few , just want to go to work, feed their kids, go on the occasional trip, etc...

We are no more trusting of our gov't. than any other nationality, in fact I'd say we're rather less than most. Yes, there are a noisy lot out there that would have you furriner types believe otherwise, but seriously...any country with politicians like Mr. Nixon, Spiro Agnew, Mr. Clinton, Mr. Bush, Mr. Carter, and many, many others past and present will not have a population that is especially trusting of its gov't. Just my humble opinion...

Rock as usual full of name calling and when did I say America was a hell hole. Lets just face it its you who cannot debate my points not the other way round.

The purpose of this thread was to ask Americans to think and comment on what I posted and you sir wish to turn it into a circus of hate, name calling and ignorance, you put words in my mouth that I have not uttered and your only concern is that some one is saying things you dont want to hear, well jam them thingers in real hard.

You have not taken any single point I have raised and discussed it in any detail but choose name calling and insults, well you know what that proves to me, you are scared, really scared, scared of facing the truth of what is happening to your country and its people.

But some are not and are willing to discuss these matters as it is of concern to them.

America: Land of the Free, Home of the Brave.

In the last 5 to 10 years though it seems we are also the home of the tired. Tired of being the worlds policeman, doctor, etc... It's a role we've never been comfortable with as a whole. Truth to tell, most of us would just as soon it have been someone else...

Given that, is it any wonder that we might appear scared? Paranoid? Whatever? I never, in my wildest nightmares, dreamed I'd ever say this. I'm tired of everything being America's fault, whether or not it actually is or not. It will be, whatever we say or do. It gets old...and hey if someone wants the blasted job...step up and take the damned thing away from us. Then we can sit on the sideline and point out all the mistakes you make. But there isn't anyone to do it, and if there is, China comes to mind, they'll be even worse at it than we are...

Seagull would you say America should have followed its isolationist policies, you see the reason I ask these questions as being a member of what was the Worlds greatest Empire I was brought up on it and was proud to be British to feel superior to all others then I realised that it was all gained through war, suffering murder and mayhem. Countries robbed of their rights, their way of life, we were like a disease that made people sick.

People hated us for what we did to them and many still do, I can understand all that and one can only make bridges to those who we treated so badly. Yes time is a healer but do we stop others from treading the same path or do we just sit back.

Its a world full of clowns and sad freak shows for which we dont need to pay an admission to see.
Its a pathetic world as a whole full of lies and deception. I dont know which way is up anymore. Or down.

The whole world is involved in this and i'm with Seagull, it definatly is not all our fault. Its the world's fault. Everything is screwed up and filled with non-caring, non-feeling governments, people and plots.

As for myself, i think we are self destructing ourselves and nobody seems to want PEACE. I havent heard that word mentioned in a long time. Oh, to have some peace!!!

The Antichrist needs to step up to the plate right about now. No wonder he will be most welcome.

Bush instigates the middle east, the middle east instigates us. Russia is salivating over our demise, China wants to be numero uno, yada yada, yada....Its happened before, but not to this extreme. This world is truly fecked up and unless a miracle happens, i dont know whats going to become of us.

Its a comedy of horrors. :shk:

In no way do I, or would I, advocate isolationism. The world is too small...it was 100 years ago and it certainly is now. What I do advocate is the strength we have, tempered with an idealism we seem to have lost, that all men are created equal, but sometimes need help. We help, then move along, before gratitude turns to disdain turns to hatred.

Speaking as an American I have to add my two cents to what other americans are saying. Let me preface this by saying that I associate with a variety of people that fit a good portion of the traditional population demographics. What I've found is pretty frightening.

First off the people that are financially stable and reasonably well educated... These people will NOT ever give their true opinion of their take on world events in anything but one on one conversation. If confronted later in front of a group of people they will vocally deny anything they said previously. These people are scared to death, a good portion of them are so scared they feel they need to conceal their actual opinions about world events.

Next is the low to mid income high school to mid college educated people who are struggling to get by. They are afraid too, but not about the world at large. They are scared of what happens if they lose their job or miss another utility payment. When asked about the world at large they give a hopeless shrug and tiredly tell you they haven't had a real vacation since the early 90's.

I could continue to list the various demographics but i won't waste time doing it. In my opinion and in the opinions of those I know who aren't too tired to care, YES the US is a hellhole.

A good portion of the population is so close to fiscal medical or residential disaster in the US that they literally cannot spare the energy to worry about the state of our freedoms etc. And that should have people worried. As should the rapidly dissolving middle class and the disintegrating educational system we are faced with.

America has major problems and it is getting worse quickly. But please don't insinuate that our unwillingness to let go of our guns is a sign of them! THat is the ONE good thing left in america. It is not our fault that the european governments have succeeded in disarming your civilian populations. Has it stopped gun violence ? you can't LIE and say it has stopped crime Us stupid americans know better

This may be a bit long winded but bear with me....for this is my first indepth post.

I'm not going to come out swinging, because its not neccessary. None of the Americans I know are "scared". That is preposterous, I admit there is a sesspool of deceit, lies, and greed in our political system. Granted is that not the case in most other governments?


As an American with a gun, I do not have one in the event to protect my family in lieu of "fear" of a terrorist organization. I am not only excercising my freedom to have one, but to draw arms in need of the neccessary situation (n.w.o. "alien" invasion ect. ect. ) but that is my own personal right and opinion to do so...


I remember reading one of you stating, ( I may be mistaken I have been working on this rebuttal for a few minutes. ) the French aide to America
but no mention of American aide to not only France but all of Europe

One example being: The Marshall Plan

The Marshall Plan (from its enactment, officially the European Recovery Programme [ERP]) was the primary plan of the United States for rebuilding and creating a stronger foundation for the allied countries of Europe, and repelling communism after World War II. The initiative was named for United States Secretary of State George Marshall and was largely the creation of State Department officials, especially William L. Clayton and George F. Kennan.

for more information wikipedia "marshall plan"

Joint Franco-American Communique

Joint Franco-American Communique, Additional United States Aid for France and Indochina, September 30, 1953, Department of State Bulletin, October 12, 1953, p. 486:

These are two examples off the top of my head with research c/o google search & wikipedia.

I'm not here to form a bias against, any foreign nations, I was born and raised in America, although I have family abroad. But, let me ask,...and correct me if I'm wrong, corruption is also looming in your nation right?

A good portion of the population is so close to fiscal medical or residential disaster in the US that they literally cannot spare the energy to worry about the state of our freedoms etc. And that should have people worried. As should the rapidly dissolving middle class and the disintegrating educational system we are faced with.

roughtechie, I agree with this whole heartedly... but there is one part I don't. I believe that these people ( for which I am a part of ) I am concerned with all facets of these issues, I may not speak for a large association of people. Although, the ones I do associate with, despite their own economical, & residential disasters. Do concern themselves with the issues of their freedoms being attacked, raped, pillaged, burned and left for dead. I

n response to anyone saying this is purely an American problem should look out their own windows. UK is on the verge of being under a "marshall" law of sorts with stop and search being considered to be re-instated. I think this is a worldwide epidemic, afraid I think not but I believe we should ALL be CONCERNED.

Rock as usual full of name calling and when did I say America was a hell hole.

From your description it could only be assumed .. no? .. but then again, you have never stepped foot in America.

Lets just face it its you who cannot debate my points not the other way round.

I debate your points while you attack me personally. Whos the fool here? Me. Because I bothered to respond to this crap.

The purpose of this thread was to ask Americans to think and comment on what I posted

............................... and I gave you a rather detailed response of an American's point of view. however, it was apparently not up to your standards.

and you sir wish to turn it into a circus of hate, name calling and ignorance, you put words in my mouth that I have not uttered

Your agenda, is worn on your sleeve my friend. Blatant, and open, it is visible for all to see.

and your only concern is that some one is saying things you dont want to hear

And you apparently never actually read my post, just know my name.

well jam them thingers in real hard.

K. Bout the dumbest thing I have heard in a while. Are you what? 13?

You have not taken any single point I have raised and discussed

You did not "discuss" anything at all. you gave your points, I objected to open ignorance to a person professing to know more then something he obviously only hears about through BBC, and you find this. mm... against the thread?

but choose name calling and insults,

This thread alone is insult enough, I was not needed, trust me, like your other threads, its all the same man.

well you know what that proves to me, you are scared

You don;t know me at all fool, not at all. But being a Brit I suppose that you do, like you know all about this country and her people huh?

really scared, scared of facing the truth of what is happening to your country and its people.

Again, you never read a damn thing I said, your head is so far up your own backside you don't even bother.

But some are not and are willing to discuss these matters as it is of concern to them.

Is this of concern to you?

Notice all those who "fear" the "tyranny of America" are all the opposing political party. Has nothing to do with it huh?

Your a waste of my time, I am done with you and both of your pathetic hate threads.






Get an education, and Ill give you a debate, until then.

There are just enough brave Americans left Always are, always will be. For a nation just over 200 years old we have not done bad. Only real power in the world, and if we fail McDonalds will kill you all with heart disease....Your welcome.

Originally posted by TXMACHINEGUNDLR
Only real power in the world...

Well that's the problem right there. Americas obsession with power and control. America needs to grow up, the world isn't the high school playground.

But of course this power you talk about only benefits the few, that are already wealthy and powerful, at the expense of the many.
What good has your power done to help the worlds real problems, poverty, starvation, etc..., let alone problems in your own country? Yes America does help these things, it helps perpetuate them!

One day of war in Iraq would feed 8,000,000 children for a year.

Source

The Iraq war costs American taxpayers $195 million per day. For the cost of fighting the war in Iraq one day, we could...Provide 3.97 million households with an emergency readiness kit. Close the financing gap for interoperable communications in 41 small cities...

The real cost of the war in Iraq

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed."-President Dwight D. Eisenhower April 16, 1953

America has been hijacked by those not of the freedom loving type.

Whether you want to accept this or not, it is reality.

The same has happened in every other country in the world.

Wake the # up!

A lyric from Immortal Technique, "the 4th Branch" of the government aka the media.

"This is the information that they hold back from Peter Jennings
Cause Condoleeza Rice is just a new age Sally Hemmings
I break it down with critical language and spiritual anguish
The Judas I hang with, the guilt of betraying Christ
You murdered and stole his religion, and painting him white
Translated in psychologically tainted philosophy
Conservative political right wing, ideology
Glued together sloppily, the blasphemy of a nation
Got my back to the wall, cause I'm facing assassination
Guantanamo Bay, federal incarceration
How could this be, the land of the free, home of the brave?
Indigenous holocaust, and the home of the slaves
Corporate America, dancing offbeat to the rhythm
You really think this country, never sponsored terrorism?
Human rights violations, we continue the saga
El Salvador and the Contras in Nicaragua
And on top of that, you still wanna take me to prison
Just cause I won't trade humanity for patriotism"