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Drug War Conspiracy... (Part 1)

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posted on May, 23 2007 @ 10:13 AM
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I am unsure where to post this, but this does deal with economic/political conspiracy... I wrote an email to Michael Savage, talk radio host, but the only email addy I could find was no longer valid. So I post it here:


Dear Michael,

I was listening to a rebroadcast of one of your shows with my four-year-old -- and as you might guess, with the four-year-old, I missed details through distraction. What I heard you to say was that there was some study (missed who did it) that related marijuana to some mental disorder and that it was a high probability that if I smoke it I will develop the problem. Along with having listened to what you have said in the past about marijuana, I might suspect that you are not as well educated on the subject as you think you are.

No reputable study has linked marijuana to violent behavior (users tend to be less violent than “sober” people). And, in fact, in all the thousands of studies that have been done over the last 50 years, none made note of issues with mental disorders in their marijuana-smoking test subjects (there have been studies specifically looking for mental disorders that show a higher percentage of users with overall signs of depression than in the population at large, but concluding that the drug is necessarily creating the problem, without considering the possibility that people with depression are more likely to treat it, is poor statistical analysis). If marijuana is so likely to cause mental issues, you would think the studies, some fair percentage of them, would note this issue somewhere in their observations.

So I have to think the report you are quoting is from the same faction that gave us Reefer Madness, which told the American public that smoking marijuana turned one criminally insane. This is the faction that saw hemp as a threat to petro-oil investments (containing excellent hydrocarbons, hemp oil can run cars (Henry Ford made a car that ran on hemp oil), make plastics, and all other functions that petro-oil fills), paper-forest investments (W.R. Hearst was heavily invested in paper forests and made up stories of horrors in his effort to rid himself of the threat of hemp), pharmaceutical investments, beer and spirit manufacturers, textile manufacturers (e.g., cotton), pesticide companies (hemp requires little or no pesticide to grow unlike cotton), and more recently, prison-industrial complex investors. Conceivably even diet supplement and health food manufacturers might fall into the faction (since hemp seed provides an optimal balance of Omega-3 and -6 oils, protein and other healthful phytochemicals and could be seen to threaten their investments).

The faction also includes agencies of our government that use the black market created by the prohibitional laws to generate undocumented funds for their Black Ops.

The laws, in their prohibitionary nature, also create sanctioned excuses for the government to initiate, at no citizen’s request, invasions of privacy, and has suspended our right to hold our property until we have been proven in a court of law to have a debt owed (80% of people who have had property seized, on suspicion of drug involvement alone, are never charged with a crime).

Given the above, I might suspect that a lot of money is going into keeping marijuana illegal, and would include the money to issue a “study” engineered to misinform the public.

Meanwhile, reputable institutions worldwide are finding rather awesome benefits. Recently it has been discovered that, contrary to previous belief, the human brain is capable of building new neurons. Getting smarter, one must presume. Out of the University of Saskatchewan:

Most so-called drugs of abuse -- such as alcohol or coc aine -- inhibit the growth of new neurons, according to Xia Zhang, M.D., Ph.D., of the University of Saskatchewan.

"Only marijuana promotes neurogenesis," Dr. Zhang said. (Reported in the Journal of Clinical Investigation)

(...continued next post)



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posted on May, 23 2007 @ 10:14 AM
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For years the fact that smoking it does NOT deteriorate the lungs has been known. (See the Kaiser Permanente study - "Marijuana Use and Mortality" April 1997 American Journal of Public Health and a UCLA study in Volume 155 of the American Journal of Respiratory and Critical Care Medicine 1997.)

THC, the active ingredient in marijuana, has been shown to fight cancer in rats. The probability that the same is true in humans is quite high and the probability that the THC exacerbates cancer in humans is approaching nil. (CANADA: Pot Doesn't Cause Lung Cancer, Researcher Says: Toronto Star, 12 June 2001; New 126-Page Study, 'NTP Technical Report On The Toxicology And Carcinogenesis Studies Of 1-Trans-Delta-9-Tetrahydrocannabinol, CAS No. 1972-08-3, In F344/N Rats And B6C3F(1) Mice, Gavage Studies': February 1999 from AIDSNEWS.) This rather makes the Public “Service” Announcements about the threat of increased amounts of THC in “today’s marijuana” seem a bit disingenuous, eh?

The list of diseases that are seen to be treatable with marijuana, relieving symptoms or helping in prevention, currently includes:

• Stress
• Pain
• Depression
• Nausea
• Insomnia
• Anorexia
• Glaucoma
• Alzheimer’s
• Multiple Sclerosis
• Cancer (?)

Though novice users deteriorate in performance tests, experienced users actually increase in their scores on such tests (See Weil, AT, Norman & Nelson J.M. “Clinical & Psychological Effects of Marijuana in Man.” in Science. Vol. 162. 1968. p. 1234).

For decades we have known that experienced users score marginally BETTER on driving tests than their “sober” counterparts (See the State of Washington Department of Motor Vehicles study, Crancer, Alfred, et al. “Comparison of the Effects of Marihuana & Alcohol on Simulated Driving Performance.” in Science. Vol. 164. 1969. pp. 851-854). Further testing has shown this is indeed the case, and the whys (whatever they may be) do not change the end manifestation.

Not a single death has been attributed to marijuana use in the history of humankind. (Though, if it is found along with other substances in any media-profiled cases, it will surely be mentioned with implication that it contributed…)

There is quite a bit more I could go into, but I think you are getting the picture.

Given that America now has the highest per capita incarceration rate -- with only one twentieth of the world’s population, we are the proud incarcerator of over one quarter of the world’s jailed individuals -- I must think we are not “The Land of the Free.” And given that 70% or so of our incarcerated individuals are “in” for drug related charges, and that most of those charges stemmed from possession/sale of marijuana, I suspect that Prohibition is not healthy for the American Way (we discovered that with alcohol; you’d think we would learn).

We are locking up our productive citizens, taking on the responsibility and cost of their lives (not to mention the costs of hunting, capturing, processing, and trying them) while robbing society of the production they could be offering. We then use them as slaves in the prison-industrial system to the profit of the owners. In fact, it would seem that we are robbing our citizens of their freedom so that some amongst us can make money (protect their investments).

Is this ethical? From my perspective, this is one of the most vile, evil, and heinous immoralities a society could choose.

So do you contribute to the problem of locking up citizenry for profit by supporting the lies, distortions and disinformation spread by those with money to gain? I would say yes.

In case you’re wondering, yes. I do smoke marijuana, have for decades, and have had no issues. It relaxes me, allows me to bring forth patience with my child, promotes deeper thought, and enhances some of the finite moments of my life -- something I think I have a right to do as long as I hurt no one. And it seems I am not a threat to anyone while medicated with marijuana.


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posted on May, 23 2007 @ 10:15 AM
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And in fact, I know a plethora of users -- heavy users -- and none show mental disorders. They are all relatively happy and productive citizens.

Given that an estimated 25 million of us use marijuana daily (and most driving daily), and given that 25 million of us are not creating a mental health, or any other, crisis in our society -- in fact, aside from the issue of illegality and its attendant problems, 25 million of us are not creating any issues in society -- I again suspect you are promoting tainted data.

Thank you for taking the time to read what I offer. I do appreciate it.

Sincerely,

Amaterasu



posted on May, 23 2007 @ 01:04 PM
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Amaterasu,, great ppost, I'm flagging it. You put it very succinctly and backed it all up with alot of sources.
I agree with absolutely everything you say. I know many people who have derived medical benefits from the Gentle Weed, including myself and with not one negative side effect. Nor is it physically addictive, there are no withdrawal symptoms, even if you've smoked 25 joints a day for 50 years, still there are no withdrawal symptoms, not one.



posted on May, 23 2007 @ 06:47 PM
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I agree with basically all of it - although I have some heavy smoker friends who HAVE gone a bit doo-lally. Basically, it is IMO quite dangerous for developing minds, and I would never recommend starting before 17 or so. All those I know it messed up were smoking bongs at the age of 14.

About addiction, although it is technically not physically addictive, it certainly is mentally addictive, and although I have never experienced it myself some friends of mine claim to experience withdrawal symptoms (may be exagurated).


I liked the driving under the influence part (obviously true). Nearby my house a car driven by a "stoned" someone resulted in somebodies death, and the media lashed out at cannabis something chronic. Ignorance is truly everywhere.



posted on May, 23 2007 @ 07:03 PM
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Awesome post. Flagged.


You forgot to mention how two heavily used legal products, tobacco and alcohol, result in the deaths of hundreds of thousands each year. We really do live in a country gone mad when we promote products that encourage addiction, are extremely unhealthy, and ultimately lead to death. Meanwhile we take billions from taxpayers to criminalize a plant that has incredible benefits.

I find the main problem in this situation is that the general public is totally uneducated about the real science behind marijuana. The government as well as various corporate entities have embarked on a major disinformation campaign to confuse the public about the real facts.

The only way to change things is to spread the truth. Sending a letter like this is a great idea, and perhaps it should be sent to congress personnel and major media figures.

Personally I have come to love the plant and its endless benefits. Even as I write this I am high.



posted on May, 23 2007 @ 11:58 PM
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Great post

I to smoke weed, but only not heavly, i quit recently because i was hearing a bunch of stuff about how bad it was for you. I saw a video on the effects of coc aine, and there were holes in the brain where there wasnt blood reaching it. They also showed images of people that smoked marijuana and they were the same effects but not as badly, im kinda caught up in between your evidence and the videos evidence. I realize the studies were done by universities, but im wondering if its all propaganda. After all it is Canada, and alot of people do it here. I dont know what to think



posted on May, 24 2007 @ 12:50 AM
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I think this is a good thread, a place I've always found to be good when looking for real info on drugs, the expected "effect" and long term effect is erowid.

Here's an article on it that pretty much echoes what Amaterasu said:
www.erowid.org...

Good stuff! I've been a user of it for a long time (10 years or so) and I definitely can see the gap between experienced users vs new experiencers.



posted on May, 24 2007 @ 04:25 AM
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Marijuana definitely has withdrawal symptoms and can cause serious mental problems.

I've been a problem smoker (Quarter of a an ounce a week). And whilst I still smoke quite regularly when I did stop for a few week there was withdrawal symptoms. Anxiety, weird dreams etc.

Nowhere near as bad as heroin, Of course people have withdrawal symptoms from stopping drinking coke.

I've had friends who have gone loopy "Drug psychosis" who were only stoners.

There is definitely good things as well, but to totally discount any of the bad things is a little dangerous. All the info should be out there and let people make up there mind.

It's all about moderation.



posted on May, 24 2007 @ 04:31 AM
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Like many western countries, at a Federal level, Australia has a tough stance on MJ...On a state to state basis the law relating to possession vary, small quantities tend to get you a caution in most states

However, our Federal government, quite hypocritically has made a point of demonising it over the last 10 years...And of course, at the same time they're quite happy to rake in the tax dollars from excise on alcohol and tobacco which kill 10's of thousands of Australians every year

This has never made sense to me...

Legalisation of possession of up to an ounce of MJ, and allowing the cultivation of up to 3 plants will not cause MJ use to rise over a period of a number of years...

Sure in the first year or so people may use more than in the past due to the sheer novelty value of being able to grow your own or not having to get busted buying from your local dealer...But over a number of years, usage trends would end up staying pretty much as they are now, if places like the Netherlands are anything to go by...

As the OP mentioned, MJ and hemp have the potential to take money away from the Industrialists, so little wonder our politicians wont change the status quo

Thanks for posting Amaterasu, great topic



posted on May, 24 2007 @ 08:24 AM
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Nice opening posts.

Since when was it alright for the government to declare "war" on its own citizens, the very ones that elected them in the first place. Whether a drug user or not, your still a citizen. And the cops busting the drug dealers are doing it themselves, and some are making money off of it on the side.

Meanwhile, all these "terrible" pot smokers and sellers are sitting in prisons, rotting, and going through those government regulated mind control classes called therapy, while the tax payers are footing the bills.

Marijuana grows naturally, and has been around and used for 1000's of years. And suddenly, within the last 100 yrs or so, those with higher (no pun) authority have decided we can't grow it, smoke it, or even look at it. What's next, tomatoes? In the land of the free, your only free if you conform. Blah



posted on May, 24 2007 @ 09:15 AM
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To the OP, very nice


There really is no argument. Hemp should definatly be legal, and the psychoactive variety should also be legal IMO.. anyone who can think for themselves should recognise the war being waged on Cannabis.

One thing you didn't mention, which i think you should have included, is the "grit weed", or contaminated Cannabis that is floating around. People spraying the plants with silicone/glass to make it weigh more/thus more profit. This problem has gotten worse, with even smaller particles now being used, which are near impossible to detect.. is this just dealers trying to make a bigger buck? Or is the government involved in this? Personally i would not put it past our government to do such things, considering that the CIA/MI6 are known drug smugglers themselves!

But again, fantastic post




Originally posted by Krahzeef_Ukhar
Marijuana definitely has withdrawal symptoms and can cause serious mental problems.


Ive never experienced any withdrawal symptoms, and niether has anyone i've ever known whos smoked it. The most its done to me when i've stopped smoking is increase my appetite.. stopping is not a problem, unless you have no discipline. I can easily go without it for weeks, and even months... its just a case of whether you can keep your sanity when sober..the real world is full of crap and boredom. Smoking makes even the mundane things interesting lol.


Originally posted by Krahzeef_Ukhar
I've been a problem smoker (Quarter of a an ounce a week). And whilst I still smoke quite regularly when I did stop for a few week there was withdrawal symptoms. Anxiety, weird dreams etc.

It's all about moderation.


A quarter a week is not healthy, although i will admit i used to be the same (until i realised i was abusing it, and not using it productively).

This is not the fault of Cannabis, but of the user. As you said, its all about moderation.. some people will continue to abuse it, and it will come back at them eventually, but everyone makes mistakes, and hopefully they learn from them.

Part of the problem of abuse of Cannabis, especially in younger people, is due to the fact that life is mundane. Young people drink and do drugs because they are more consciously active than their conforming-to-society parents, there is nothing else there to occupy there boredom.

You can only goto the cinema or goto youth clubs for so long before you become bored of it, due to our fast pace hyperactive society no less, and also due to financial costs. Two kids could goto the cinema, or they could put their money together and buy some Cannabis which would last them more than 2 hours worth of film..



posted on May, 24 2007 @ 09:15 AM
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Originally posted by stompk


Marijuana grows naturally, and has been around and used for 1000's of years. And suddenly, within the last 100 yrs or so, those with higher (no pun) authority have decided we can't grow it, smoke it, or even look at it. What's next, tomatoes? In the land of the free, your only free if you conform. Blah



AMEN!!!



posted on May, 24 2007 @ 10:03 AM
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Originally posted by shrunkensimonOne thing you didn't mention, which i think you should have included, is the "grit weed", or contaminated Cannabis that is floating around. People spraying the plants with silicone/glass to make it weigh more/thus more profit.

You can only goto the cinema or goto youth clubs for so long before you become bored of it, due to our fast pace hyperactive society no less, and also due to financial costs. Two kids could goto the cinema, or they could put their money together and buy some Cannabis which would last them more than 2 hours worth of film..


Yeah, all true. This gritty sh** is horrible, and is most likely dangerous. Anyone like the idea of inhaling melted silicon glass? It's becoming so bad that the only way is to know an organic dealer...

It's also stupid that a night at the pub would cost the same as some skunk which would last 3 times as long. Life is boring, MJ makes it barable.



posted on May, 24 2007 @ 10:27 AM
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Excellent post, thanks for bringing these things up.

I, myself, do not smoke cannabis at the moment, but this is because I just don't have any right now.


However, after being a regular smoker of tobacco from my "teens" and cannabis for about twenty years, I would much rather have a joint. After a joint, I do not need a cigarette.


Also, cannabis, in my opinion, is illegal because it is one drug (I use that term loosely) that has more benefits than drawbacks. Therefore if it was legal, many people I imagine would not consider things like alcohol, coc aine or synthetic prescribed and non prescribes drugs which contribute vastly to decreasing the population, funding pharmecutical companies, stuffing the coffers of "black ops", funding real crime and the like.

I have always thought that it is the mind you do it "to", and not what you "do" to that mind.

Cannabis smoked by a person with mental problems and/or insecurities to begin with, is bound to have a bad time. Paranoia is the result of those insecurities and existing problems, not a result of "pot" smoking.

I will be interested in your opinions here, will flag this thread, and keep reading your posts.

Well done.




[edit on 24/5/2007 by nerbot]

[edit on 24/5/2007 by nerbot]



posted on May, 24 2007 @ 10:38 AM
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Great post! 5 stars for you!

I've been a casual smoker for 15 years or so. I recently got married and my wife had not had interaction with many such substances (isn't that crazy in this day and age?), so it became a real issue for a while.

It began with her spouting different kinds of non-sense propaganda about addiction and health issues, all of which I took without arguement until she was finished. I simply told her that she's been taught these things over the years and that most of the points she made simply were not true. I urged her to research the information herself. She argued that she had and she had even written papers on it in college. I told her to double check her sources to make sure they were creditable. I didn't deny that marijuana use does carry a mental addiction with it that can sometimes carry over into psychologically-created physical attributes, but that every case is unique and subject to one's use.

I cut back extremely on my intake. But, while doing so, I began sustituting with other substances that helped with my back pain. They were a substitution for the release and in a form that was not easily detectable. This went on for a couple months until she found where I kept these items. I told her what I'd been doing and agreed to stop (and glad to — I was throwing away a fortune on those worthless things).

I take it that she'd reseached marijuana in the meantime because there have been no other arguements about the side effects of smoking. Though there were issues of finances. After discussing the cost of such "luxury" items, I've decided to quit smoking cigarettes, which I had been trying to do for about a year. We're both in total agreement that cigarettes are a worthless form of addiction - I had come to that conclusion long before I'd met my wife, yet hadn't a reason to quit. And I've also agreed to cut back on my alcohol consumption — on average we drink a six pack every few days. These cut backs in other "luxury" items allow me to contiune smoking, though she's still not real keen on the idea.

The moral here is that my wife did the research. She couldn't come up with creditable evidence that smoking causes kids to shoot each other while playing with guns or that it may cause you to run kids over while going through a drive-thru. So, I've become a "closet" smoker. I don't do it around her. I usually wait until she goes to bed, or when I know she will not return home for a while. We're on a "don't ask, don't tell" policy. I guess the point I'm trying to relate is that though she's anti drug-use, she's able to accept that marijuana isn't the devil that it's made out to be. Though, she prefers not to be around it, she allows me to have one of the very few luxuries that I enjoy in this life. One that allows me not to pay out a cut to "the man" (some would argue) and make a statement of "the establishment is screwed" at the same time.

By the way, I'm an advocate for rehabilitation of harmful drug addictions. I believe it's a waste of tax dollars to throw drug-related, non-violent "criminals" into jail or prison. There needs to be a restructing of how we deal with these cases, whether it be a re-hab plan, or another way ... it's just not right for someone who sold a pound, or grew a field of marijuana to be in prison with cold-blooded murderers, rapist and bank robbers. How did the two ever get associated other than they were both "crimes?"

[edit on 24-5-2007 by tyranny22]



posted on May, 24 2007 @ 01:21 PM
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amaterasu-great post--but don't waste your time on Michael Savege for christ sakes. If there ever was a crazy bastard that needed a toke--it's Michael.

I never even saw pot until I was 31 and my first time resulted in the best sex I ever had. I also found myself toking before important meetings and speeches and for a fact, I blew people away with my insight--promotions folllowed. Maybe not everyone is affected this way, but I became less introverted and better at articulating myself.

I don't often smoke it anymore because of the unbelieveable legal consequences in my state--but every once in awhile I visit friends in L.A.



posted on May, 24 2007 @ 01:58 PM
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I use maryjane for chronic pain along with Tramacet, a non addictive new class of pain killer.
My chronic px is from a spinal cord injury and from three herniated discs.
I got the herniations in Nov 06
Pot Brownies are a God send
Much more powerful then smoking and taste and smells better too.



posted on May, 24 2007 @ 02:19 PM
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Originally posted by junglelord
I use maryjane for chronic pain along with Tramacet, a non addictive new class of pain killer.
My chronic px is from a spinal cord injury and from three herniated discs.
I got the herniations in Nov 06
Pot Brownies are a God send
Much more powerful then smoking and taste and smells better too.


you may want to ask your doctor about Marinol. It's basically a legal pot pill. I've never seen a strain of marijuana that could come close to what this pharmaceutical is capable of. It's not exactly prescribed for pain, but if you claim that marijuana helps you, this may be a better suit for you. I know that pain pills can make you nauseous and that's one of the reason that this pharmaceutical is prescribed. Plus it's 100% leagl.

one of the dislaimers on the site is:

MARINOL is not marijuana. MARINOL does not contain the additional chemicals and impurities associated with marijuana.

but, it might as well be. It does the EXACT same thing, only much, much more exffectively.

[edit on 24-5-2007 by tyranny22]



posted on May, 24 2007 @ 02:23 PM
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yeah we have gone through that.
He is all for it, unfortuneatly the canadian government is really only prescribing it for cancer patients.
The paper work is a bother and its not likely to be granted for my condition...although there is good evidence it helps with Neurological pain for example in MS
My psychologist gave me three to try, and they helped but not like my brownies so i guess I am doing ok, but thanks for the heads up in case I was not aware and great point to further compliment the thread.





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