4th Astute finally ordered

The MOD have finally given the go ahead for the 4th Astute class.

She is to be called HMS Audacious!

www.gnn.gov.uk...

i guess they needed something to fill the space once HMS Astute is launched in a fourtnights time.

P.A.

How many more are the Brits buying? You guys have 7 Trafalgar, so maybe 7 Astute class subs. The next name should be HMS Ambitious.

WOW Deltaboy. Some humour at last.

I think it should be called HMS Ludicrous because the way this Labour government has treated our Royal Navy, is exactly that, ludicrous.

We Brits live on an island, for Christ's sake. We are an island nation that needs a modern navy.

So half a dozen Type 45 Frigates and 4 Astute class subs, do not a navy make.

We've also not heard a dickybird about the 2 carriers. Does anybody know or have proof that the hulls have even been laid down yet? I think once Brown gets in to No 10, he'll cancell the carriers and cut defence even more.

It is well known that Gordon Brown does not like defence and has slashed spending to the bone, whilst trumpeting that he has found 'extra' money to prosecute two major wars when in fact, all he has done is told defence chiefs to find it from next year's budget.

Here is a link worth looking at:

www.publications.parliament.uk...

Very interesting to say the least. Especially if you read this page:

www.publications.parliament.uk...

It shows the total cost of the two wars to date, and also illustrates just how short the defence budget actually is.

[edit on 22-5-2007 by fritz]

Originally posted by fritz
I think once Brown gets in to No 10, he'll cancell the carriers and cut defence even more.
[edit on 22-5-2007 by fritz]

That bad huh?!

I am afraid Daedalus3 that it is far worse. In regards to the Future Carrier programme, please read the House of Commons report about the same:

www.publications.parliament.uk...

I just love the following:

He told us that 'we are now at the stage of due diligence.…making sure that we really do understand the proposition which is on the table and that we actually understand and believe the numbers'.[58]

What the is that all about? 'Now at a stage of due diligence'. God, these people make Attic Greek look straight forward.

PaperplaneUK,

This new post of your's caused me to go back and look up the specifications on the Astute class boats and to look more in detail.
I realized the Gross weight on this boat was some 7800 plus tons.
In addition I did not realize that it was a six torpedo tube boat.
I have only seen one six tube boat and it had six tubes horizontal. This caused me to think about what the torpedo tube lay out was on this Astute class. One cannot exactly tell from the photos in the Barrow in Furnace BAE yard. THe computer cut away diagram shows six tubes vertical.
This also made me consider what kind of torpedo eject system was being used...but we shall desist as this point.

This is a heaver boat than the Los Angeles class at some 6500 tons verses the 7800 for this Astute. With a torpedo load out of some 36 weapons that means a larger torpedo room than most boats. A bit bigger around in the hull diameter.

Also of intrest was the crew compliment at less than a Hundred sailors. This tells me that she is fitted out with modern electronics and monitoring equipment allowing more crew reduction. Not as many watch standers or roving watchs needed as in the olde days. More equipment can be computer monitored and alarmed. This is the face of designs to come. Not as many roving watchs needed as in the olde days. Alot of the olde hand written paper logs arer done now days on computer too..and from one location. Compare this new Astute class boat to about 125 crew compliment on a LA class boat.

I had to chuckle to myself at the photo of the pressure bulkhead or what we call the elliptical bulkheads. Ive spent many a night working on fitting equipment and valves to these pressure hulls.

News to me that they have laid out the funds for early work on the fourth boat. Good for you Brits.

It burns my backside when a government spends huge amounts of moneys on social programs to keep politicians elected and re elected but the military of a country has to make do with olde equipment. This is happening alot here on this side of the pond...but with you Brits it seems to be more common. You folks have been caught several times in conflicts with olde equipment or not enough of the equipment you currently have..or both. And you have paid the price for it too with your finest blood while keeping politicians in office. This kind of thing just browns my backside.

Agree with Fritz's sentiments on your need for a well equipped Navy. You folks more than us are an Island for goodness sake.

THanks for your post,
Orangetom

I've often wondered what our politicians would do if our defence chiefs plonked a map of the world down in front of them and said "It's twenty years in the future. China have cut off our shipping in the Indian Ocean, and Russia is threatening the Atlantic - using only the equipment you've given us so far... a handful of Astutes and Type 45s... get shipping running again." Remember the U-Boat peril, anyone?

Hopefully, after realising that they aren't adequately planning our national defence, they'd decide to invest more cash into the armed forces.

The new carriers were mentioned at PMQs today... Blair said they were "putting more resources" into the project (and the landing craft project).

Ste2652,

Dont waste your time waiting for a politician to acknowlege such a truth. They would rather play the blame game than admit they made a mistake.
Our history parallels yours in this buisness of politics.

Most peoples educated today on a diet of public education/a television education would hardly know what is the U boat peril or U boat menace.
This history is close to being back there with the dinosaurs to many today.

But I know about it in two world wars. Many have no idea how close the UK was to being totally cut off of its sea lane supplys. Within weeks in WW1.
Many here in the States even know how close the U boats were coming to our coastline and even sinking ships from the merchant fleets going to the UK and Russia. These boats came in very close to our shores..sometimes sinking ships within sight of land.

Thanks,
Orangetom

That's okay then Ste 2652.

Blair said they were "putting more resources" into the project (and the landing craft project).

Unfortunately, landing craft dump grotty Marines on foreign beaches and do not, by any stretch of the imagination, patrol british shores.

I am afraid Ste 2652, that all Blair was doing, was waffling. He admitted slashing the Type 45 programme from 32 ships to 25, then said in the same breath that Labour had increased the programme.

"We've also not heard a dickybird about the 2 carriers. Does anybody know or have proof that the hulls have even been laid down yet? I think once Brown gets in to No 10, he'll cancell the carriers and cut defence even more. "

I wish we had proof they had been layed down. The last development was last week when Vospers and Bae systems have said that they are finalising details to merge their shipbuilding arms into one massive company (80% of the Uk shipbuilding capacity, doesn't include barrow and the smaller yards i believe). This was the latest hurdle put in place to delay the programme by the government. Both companies have made it quite clear however that the merger will only go ahead when there is a firm order for the carriers. I remain hopeful that they will one day actually get round to ordering them.

Orangetom,

yes the Astute has 6 horizontal tubes i believe they will be in two banks of 3 all facing forward (they are aligned in a vertical V shape with the upper ones being further out). They will be armed with a mix of Spearfish torpedos and torpedo tube launched block IV tomahawks (using the adaption developed to allow the trafalgers to lauch the missiles horizontally, the US only fires them from vertical launch tubes, which we have never invested in). I believe the ejection system is pneumatic, but am not sure.

As for the crew numbers, it has been a driving force in british (and most western countries) naval design for many years to increase automation and reduce crew size (and hence major through life costs). We have been quite sucessful (try comparing US and UK surface ship crew sizes). As with most of the UK armed forces it is all about doing more with fewer people. A lot of UK research money has gone into automating naval systems.

The long lead items (i.e the nuclear reactor) for the fourth boat were ordered well over a year ago, however no long-lead items for boat 5 (if we get one) have yet been ordered.

[edit on 29-5-2007 by paperplane_uk]

if we put more into public interests (nhs/schools/prisions) i couldn't give a rats-ass about our militry, we can have rowing boats for all i care.

£40 billion on a new atom bomb won't benift me, but 40 billion buying new schools/more hospitals will.

i don't think our armed forces is all doom and gloom though as people are making out, we still have the 2nd biggest naval in the world rusting or not.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
if we put more into public interests (nhs/schools/prisions) i couldn't give a rats-ass about our militry, we can have rowing boats for all i care.

£40 billion on a new atom bomb won't benift me, but 40 billion buying new schools/more hospitals will.

i don't think our armed forces is all doom and gloom though as people are making out, we still have the 2nd biggest naval in the world rusting or not.

Actually st3v_o it will, if the doom merchants are to be believed.

Everybody is entitled to their opinions, but you'rs is a little lopsided, to say the least.

This Labour government, led by President Blair, is the most repressive, the most intrusive, spin led government that the UK has ever seen.

You bleat about the NHS. Well if Labour is to be believed, the current budget for the NHS's (period April 2007-March 31st 08) is £104B. I think that's twice the cost of the proposed Trident replacement.

You also bleat about Education. Again, if Labour is to be believed, they have spent £8,282B this financial year rising to £8,500B next financial year.

As to your bleating about prisons and the lack of money therein, one can only assume that you are referring to bricks and mortar.

There is absolutely no reason to build any more prisons for the criminal fraternity. Prisoners are imprisoned for punishment, not live in 3 or 4 * accomodation.

If there are insufficient beds, they should be made to 'hot bunk'. Whilst other inmates are chained together picking up litter or digging new roads, their friends can go to sleep in their mate's bunks. Problem solved.

So st3ve_o. You don't give a rat's ass about our military, do you? Well my friend as I said in the beginning of my post, everybody is entitled to their opinion.

Just remember mate that you are only allowed to express such sentiments because members of our armed forces fought a long drawn out war that enables you to hold those views.

People have shed blood and died for you to exercise your right to free speach. And don't you ever forget it!

Paperplane - regarding the carriers, please read my reply - about 5 posts above yours. Cheers.

[edit on 30-5-2007 by fritz]

Originally posted by fritz
Paperplane - regarding the carriers, please read my reply - about 5 posts above yours. Cheers.

I did do, note the defence select commitee report you quote is from the end of last year and there has been some movement on the subject since then. Detailed design work and risk reduction are ongoing. The future of Naval shipbuilding in this country seems to have been just about sorted out(a prerequisite for getting the order). The biggest thorn in the projects side at the moment seems to be how (or if) we are going to share the build work with the french (aparently they want 30% of the building work for all three carriers (2 for us, 1 for the french) to go to DCN. This will seriously affect the projects current structure. Also the French seem to be very firm that their timetable for a new carrier should not slip, which could lead to our vessels being numbers 2 and 3 in the class with the french getting the first one (that'll go down like a lead balloon).

We have yet to see what will happen once Brown takes office, though i don't yet think he will have the nerve to cancel the project (remember the shipyards due to build it are in his constituency!). All we can do is wait and see!



[edit on 30-5-2007 by paperplane_uk]

fritz, i didn't mean it as bad as you was making out.

if you read back on my posts you'll see i'm a very patriotic brit, love my country and love anything 'british'...i'm the first one to reply when new british ucav/uavs/ships are talked about.

nhs, i'm big on the nhs - as much as it gets pulled down i think its a national treasure...ive already saved $10's thousands$ by our country having an nhs due to the surgerys ive had over the years (only minor) but never the less if i lived in america i would have had to suffer through it.

one thing in our country that is shi-te though and i wish we took a leaf out of americas book on this is our justice system, when we read newspaper reports about peadofiles getting let out on the tag because our prisons is full is (how can i put it) shiity!

a kid local to me as just served 1 year for punching and killing a landlord (manslaughter), hes out now drinking in the same pub (new owners) :/

even then prison is luxery a m8 of mine served 6 months for GBH, when i asked him what it was like he said it was great (skytv, pool, 3 meals a day, gym).

in america, they get locked up stiring at 4 walls all day (or out doing hard labour), eating the shi-ttest food, thats how it should be.

us improving on public services (more nurses/fire service/hospital/schools) etc making them 'the best' would make our country the envy of the world, more so than having a new atom bomb and a few new ships so we can all sing RULE BRITANNIA.

ps:- forgive the spelling been up since 5 working and i'm knackered.

[edit on 30-5-2007 by st3ve_o]

Originally posted by st3ve_o
us improving on public services (more nurses/fire service/hospital/schools) etc making them 'the best' would make our country the envy of the world, more so than having a new atom bomb and a few new ships so we can all sing RULE BRITANNIA.

ps:- forgive the spelling been up since 5 working and i'm knackered.

[edit on 30-5-2007 by st3ve_o]

A few new ships? How about having SOME ships to start with....but never mind the old tommy has been slapped by more than a few people who think that diplomacy works everytime and that we have nothing to fear from our neighbors.....and funny enough they've always said : "I told you so" at the end of it.
Looks like not all of us learned from world war two huh...