Kilgoretrout that is the best response I've had all day.I found this site last night and could not sleep because of the images in my head and wondering if it had been posted here or not.All we have been shown here in North America is that these are evil people hell bent on taking us out whatever way possible. We are never shown exactly the atrocities that they live with daily since the war began.While of course I believe their may be terrorist there that could pose a threat, I do not believe this is the way to deal with it.I suppose people can't relate to something until they get a wake up call that hits close to home.If over 80% of Americans believe 911 was an inside job, while are they still gung ho over killing Iraqi people? You have to look at this from their perspective.You can't blame them really for fighting back anyway they can.OOOOps! Will I be labelled a terrorist for that remark. Probably.

Originally posted by AccessDenied
well then RWPBR- I can assume you would be more than willing to pick up a gun and go fight in Iraq .You sound very anxious to kick some al Qaida butt. So go ahead and sign up.But first have you done your homework on the number of soldiers killed and mamed since the war started? Do you want that to be you?BTW I find it comical that you must reduce yourself to insulting my gender to make a point. I try my best to be politically correct with everyone, and allow each there own opinion without verbal attack against their person. The motto of ATS if you must be reminded is "DENY IGNORANCE".If you refer to my initial post on this thread, I wasn't sure if I should even post it.However it was my belief that many were not aware of what it is like over there other than the filtered 6:00 news version. I felt this had to be put out there, for people to be made aware. Are you so disconnected from the fact that these are human beings? Do you feel as if they are beneath you?I am trying to understand your justification for killing innocent children, abroad and at home.

Diasgreeing with you is not a verbal attack. Denying ignorance does not mean drinking whatever Kool-Aid is being served at the time.

I am well aware of what is going on over there as both my Son and Daughter are in the Navy and deployed in harms way. I also served my Country in the Coast Guard. What was your service again ?

Better their children than mine. Better their children than yours. If those were pictures of American children the Moslems would be dancing in the streets like they did on 9/11 (forgot that huh?)
You cant make things better by hiding your head in the sand and hoping the bad men go away.

There is a lot of people out there who are close to views against muslims as Hitler was against the jews. Hitler made out the Jews attacked them, they were the terrorists of the 40's to German people. Later we found out Hitler staged all this, for his own sick mind. It's like history repeating over again, people have got in their minds that muslims = terrorists, due to all the propaganda and scare tactics the media have produced.

Just because a hand full of disillusioned people kill in the name of islam, doesn't make the 1.2 Billion muslims on this planet terrorists living in a backward society. The world is a crazy place, people get manipulated and people die, maybe one day into the future we can learn to get along. Leave a country to evolve like our own, just look at people's views in the UK, USA a 100 years ago? Black people had no rights just because of the colour of their skin. To judge a whole race of people because of the stage their thinking is at is wrong. One day women will have just as many rights as men in the middle east, we can push it by diplomacy. But using it as a excuse to go to war leads to a even worse situation.

You have to understand why a small minority of people want to attack us, is it because of our way of life? i say not really because they have want they want in their own region. Is it because they are constantly bombed, manipulated, sanctioned by secret agencies like MI5 and CIA, over the past few decades? There must be a reason for hate and anger that gets produce, war only leads to more of it.

[edit on 21-5-2007 by estar]

Originally posted by AccessDenied
At the risk of getting a warning over this reply-

What about the Islamists who say things far worse than anything Kacen said? What about Freedom of Speech? Why dont you post some links to picture of US soldiers who have been abducted and mutliated by the Islamists? I dont care if we dropped nuclear weapons on the Middle east it does not justify mutiltating and torturing people like Serial Killers do. The things they do make films like Hostel and Saw look tame. Thats reality. Instead of picking and choosing who to have sympathy for you need to look at the whole picture.

AccessDenied you Terrorist!!!

Actually I am probably going to be labeled an Evil-republican-warhawk cause I do support the war.

I saw way to many oppertunities for the war to have not happend... I saw a president spend a year and a half trying diplomacy... I also saw the atrocities being commited by the old government against it's own people... Maybe for the wrong reasons as far as wars go but Hussein had to go.

It took 7-years and 355,000 troops to quell Japan after WW2. But it was done through brute force in some ways and in others through communication to the populace that we are not there to stay... Those same communications are going on today. It takes time and it will get harder if the badguys in Iraq now indeed ARE getting help from Syria and Iran.

Far as WP being used I've heard that alot and every picture I have been shown had a fatal flaw in it much like the fact that clothes are not burned or a portion of skin is not burned away.

DP as far as I can see shows little to no radioactivity since it is "depleted" it's main impact is from the fact that it is such a DENSE metal... Correct that Tungsten could be used but it is much more brittle a material and is also more expensive. I would want to see more paper/bloodwork on all those kids before I think even for a second that it was caused by use of DP in the first and now the second Gulf wars. Like I said before it takes a long time for mutations to really start to show... The mention that Chernobyl caused the fall of the USSR I think is very ignorant thinking indeed...

Kindred thank you for adding the links.The more info the better.As for the last two posters, I believe we need to just agree to disagree.Iam all for freedom of speech and freedom of opinion.I was trying to understand the other point of view.My post to Kacen was made out of anger and frustration.I will never see that as my point of view.As for RWPBR, I definitely felt verbally attacked by you for voicing my own opinion.Apparently you proudly serve you country as do your children and I hope they come home safe to you.IMHO it would be better that no children be subjected to this.If I wanted to bury my head in the sand, I never would have joined ATS or posted this thread.

No offense meant but the reason that not many are posting is because this has been done to death ( no pun intended) and there is nothing we can do about it.
In my opinion they maim and kill more of themselves INTENTIONALLY than we do by mistake.
These people cant even send their kid to the market for some tea or whatever because of the fear that one of these fanatics will blow these people up.
Where is the outrage on this? where is the worldwide muslim attention to this matter?
This is just as big of a problem as the accidental casualties suffered by the Police or Military.

Originally posted by Terran Blue
I would hazard a guess that the reason that there is so little by way of reply to this thread is that the usual warhawks havent figured a way to do any discrediting. That or they simply do not care.

Either way though, great thread, and I hope more people will view this and realise what the hell is REALLY going down, and not buy into this "for the good of the world" BS.

[edit on 5/21/2007 by Kr0n0s]

I agree that war is horrible, and it's heartbreaking that innocent children
suffer, but some of the knee-jerk reactions I'm seeing are IMO naive and ignorant.


The U.S.A. isnt perfect, but the U.S. still provides the most help to the world's needy. I could post 20 pages outlining America's efforts to aid the Asian tsunami victims of 2004, as but one example of America's good deeds.
(And the U.N.'s Jan Egeland criticized America for being "stingy".)

For those ashamed to be American because of the link regarding victimized Iraqi children...your rage may be better directed at Middle-Eastern, African and Asian dictators who have killed millions upon millions of innocent children. A few names that come to mind are Idi Amin, Pol Pot and Slobodan Milosevic.

Wise words lw2525. If I had any above top secret awards to give, I would.

You see, I myself don't condone war with any nation, lest it being over nuclear stores which could be used for world destruction. (But we'd never know if that truly was the case, seeing how most governments lie and the media helps them keep that lie going.)

But I don't appreciate using weapons such as cluster bombs or DU weapons which maims and destroy innocent lives. Last time I checked, a standard bullet killed just as good. We need to worry about what we are doing to the future generations who'll be occupying the very lands we use "dirty" weapons against. For an example, this war in Iraq.

Wars will always be fought, it's in our nature. (However unfortunate.) Its the manner in which we fight those wars we should be concerned with. Less civilian casualties and more confirmed enemy kills.

As lw2525 said, we should also take a look at some other countries and how they deal with war. Shoot, they treat their own kind worse in some cases. (Korea, China to name a few.)

America has done many great deeds throughout history. It's also done a few deeds which it shouldn't have. But no country is perfect.

I guess the point I'm trying to put out (and sorry for rambling, it's 2:40am here and I'm tired) is that we need to start thinking about consequences. Every action has a reaction, and we need to make sure the reaction isn't going to maim the innocent. No matter which country or which war we are talking about.

Peace,
FK

Originally posted by AccessDenied
As for RWPBR, I definitely felt verbally attacked by you for voicing my own opinion..

This is a discussion forum. When you voice your opinion somebody is going to disagree with it, else why would we be here ?

Originally posted by AbitTweaked
DP as far as I can see shows little to no radioactivity since it is "depleted" it's main impact is from the fact that it is such a DENSE metal... Correct that Tungsten could be used but it is much more brittle a material and is also more expensive.

It is "depleted" because it no longer has any U-235 in it, the isotope necessary for making a nuclear bomb. Unfortunately that doesn't make it radiation free. If you have enough DU to make 238 grams (sorry if you don't like metric, but it makes the maths a hell of a lot easier) it will decay approximately 2.95 million times a second, most of that in the form of alpha particles.

And with Tungsten, couldn't it be alloyed to make it less brittle? Also, with the defence budget of the US I'm surprised that money can come into it.

I cant believe there are people who can somehow justify these atrocities, claiming "well better their kids than mine" I mean that just sickens me...

Dropping Depleted Uranium that is banned by the UN, which causes utter devastation and has a 4 billion year half life, is a WAR CRIME. It is CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY under the UN Charter. Wheres the outrage? Wheres the sympathy for the poor little children dying when they had nothing to do with any of this?

If the muslims hate you, they have a right to, after the years you have spent massacring and brutalizing them. Remember the Gulf war? What about the sanctions imposed after, killing 500 000 at least Iraqi children over 10 years? What about all this crap with WMDs and Iraq-911 links, and the rest of the nonsense sold to us to bait us into accepting this war? What about the fact that your government was complicit in the attacks and ensuing coverup? What about the fact that, even if it was arab terrorists who did the attack which it wasnt, that was still stimulated by your evil foreign policies which have caused utter devastation all over the arab world.

So before you go on a ego trip, think again: AMERICANS ARE NOT THE ONLY ONES THAT MATTER. Period. AMERICANS ARE NOT FAULTLESS, YOU HAVE YOUR SHARE OF THE BLAME FOR THIS TOO. Period. Get your head out of the sand before the Truth kicks you in the ass. Wake up and realize that WAR IS TERRORISM. Period. You wanna end terrorism, you want the arabs to stop hating you, stop blowing them up and killing them then!!


[edit on 22-5-2007 by LightWorker13]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and contributions to this thread. When I posted this I was only trying to make others aware of the types of weapons being used and the after effects as such.I was not trying to debate the war itself, although I suppose you can't debate one without the other, and you never know which direction a thread will go in depending on the posts.I have come to the conclusion that obviously some are pro-war and some are anti-war, and debating the two will never end.My only hope is that the use of these weapons does not come back around to haunt the troops after they return home.It is horrible what they have done in Iraq.Please remember that our men and women are there too, and these weapons could have the same effects on them and their children.Surely there are different ways to go about the war than this.

Originally posted by Kacen
Children who will grow up to become sexist, conservative, closed-minded, anti-homosexual Muslims; I have no sympathies, in fact I find it kinda fascinating, deformities and such.
Also napalmed communists =

Those deformities make me loose my appettite so I can't look at them for long. I believe the war on terror is controling the population and decreasing the numbers of new-born terrorists. Imagine if we just left them alone, and allowed them to breed new generations of hateful and fanatical terrorists? The stakes would only be higher than what they're right now. Anyway 5 stars.

Wow, what are we doing to ourselves (as a race)

This truly is one of the 'untouchable' subjects for our media. It is something that I have brought up many times in discussions (not on ATS) and people just laugh at me and call me crazy.

No, it is NOT just focused on the innocent civilians. It will impact the soldiers that are mislead to fight this war. They STILL honestly believe they are there because of 911. This is sickening and disheartening to see.

The media is sure doing their snowjob of villainizing these people. I mean, when I talk to people they start going off on the Muslims and how evil they are. They never take that step back to think for one second that we are the same. They have families, children, mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, and so on. Just like us. They laugh, they smile, and in many cases they live a much simpler life than us here in the U.S. Yet, they have been portrayed in an evil light in order to justify these unjust actions against human beings.

I read a report recently where our government is stating that terrorist actions are on the rise and not declining like thought. Hmmm, I wonder why.

Just look at the results of the war on terror and you can understand why.

Thank you for bringing this to the forefront on ATS. A tough subject. Then again, I have been involved in many tough subjects on this site. However, probably none as important as this one.

Originally posted by laiguana

Originally posted by Kacen
Children who will grow up to become sexist, conservative, closed-minded, anti-homosexual Muslims; I have no sympathies, in fact I find it kinda fascinating, deformities and such.
Also napalmed communists =

Those deformities make me loose my appettite so I can't look at them for long. I believe the war on terror is controling the population and decreasing the numbers of new-born terrorists. Imagine if we just left them alone, and allowed them to breed new generations of hateful and fanatical terrorists? The stakes would only be higher than what they're right now. Anyway 5 stars.

What kills me is that you both seem to have completely swallowed this 'war on terror' fiasco without really researching its creative source. Maybe you will change your minds later on when you finally realize that it is NOT human nature to do evil against each other. These people never intended to do harm to anyone. It is the FEW that are brainwashed and hired by the grossly arrogant wealthy that have caused this. I fear for your future because it appears it will be bleak. Maybe you will be enlightened one day.

I can at least hope for the both of you.