Can they do this legally?

Ok so I am watching my news and they tell about how this resident of a county refused to allow the fire department to go on his property and then the police was called the man refused to leave his house, at some point the police kicked in his door and brought a canine officer with them, the man's dog attacked the cops canine so they shot the man's dog and arrested him.

This was the first report I heard on this. There was no mention of a warrant, so I am not sure one way or the other if they had one.

I would post the story as it is short but I am not sure about copyright issues, here is the link and if anyone can figure out if it can be posted without getting anyone in trouble then please post story.
Here is the link

www.tricities.com...


[edit on 21-5-2007 by goose]

I'm sure our members can go to that link, instead of posting it here.

In any event, it is interesting to me that something like this actually happened. It is true though that if the authorities have reasonable suspicion, they can enter without asking. What bothers me is the reasons for doing so. They said there were reports of "smoke in the area". That's awfully vague. And besides, wouldn't you think that they would have seen the smoke when they got there? Kind of hard to hide the smoke, now don't ya think?

I wonder what the real motive was behind this.

TheBorg

It's all a little bit bizarre this one.

Why did he refuse the F.D. access? why are the cops banging the door down? Why is he letting his dog attack people? why why why...

There is more to this one than meets the eye.

My guess is that this guy knows a firemans wife a little too well!

Well to be fair, this man shouldn't have to put up with the "law" banging his door down just because they're investigating a report of smoke in the area. If you enter someone's home unannounced, don't be surprised to find the barrel of a gun stuck in your face. It's called trespassing, whether committed by the authorities or not.

The law's the law, and these people are supposed to have sworn to uphold and protect it, not break it whenever they feel like it. I'm going to hold my true thoughts on this until I hear the other side on it though.

TheBorg

Yes, they can. Since 2001 they can do pretty much everything they please. If you support the Constitution you may end on FBI terrorist suspect list. Nice, eh?

they wouldn't be allowed on the premises without a warrant though...i'm gonna have to agree with chikeymonkey and say that there's more to this than we're being told

the police can't just barge into his house for no legitimate reason, especially when the man denies them permission. either we're not being told the whole story or someone's gettin sued

Yes they can, all they have to do is LIE and say they were suspicious you were harboring terrorists or felons. They came into my apartment on a noise violation because we were having a party, no warrant and I refused to let them in because my friend was underage and drinking at the time. Needless to say, they came in and wrote a ticket to my roommate, tracked mud all over my carpet.

I was pissed, and they said they had the right to enter without a warrent because of the Patriot Act.

Here is an article with much more info

Guns, moonshine, drugs retrieved following Erwin standoff

[Jason Gouge] reportedly approached Unicoi Volunteer Fire Department agents with a gun when they responded to a report of smoke at his residence. It turned out Gouge was just spinning his tires.

...

Sheriff Kent Harris said Gouge, 30, pointed the gun at the firefighters and threatened to kill them.

...

After his initial confrontation with firefighters, Gouge retreated to his house.

...

Eventually, three deputies of the sheriff’s department kicked in the door to Gouge’s house and were confronted by Gouge’s dog, who tried to attack Sgt. Gary, a K-9 who was with the officers. The K-9 returned the aggression toward Gouge’s dog, which was shot by Deputy Kevin Pate, Harris said. The dog died before the department could get it to a veterinarian.

After all that they found eight rifles, three shotguns, three handguns, several hundred rounds of ammunition, seven jars of moonshine, and marijuana.

Originally posted by Umbrax
After all that they found eight rifles, three shotguns, three handguns, several hundred rounds of ammunition, seven jars of moonshine, and marijuana.

So, was all of that worth what they found? I hardly think so. To do what they did, to deprive a man of his pet like they did, and not repay him for their negligent actions, speaks loudly to their true opinions.

Although, I'm still awaiting a response from the department as to what REALLY happened. I don't think what's been stated so far is sufficient enough to make a clear judgment on.

TheBorg

there was a similar case in New Zealand where a man asked Police to leave his property. They refused and arrested him for obstruction. The Courts found the Police were in the wrong.

Originally posted by TheBorg

So, was all of that worth what they found? I hardly think so. To do what they did, to deprive a man of his pet like they did, and not repay him for their negligent actions, speaks loudly to their true opinions.

?!
Did you just read what I wrote and not the article I quoted?
They went there to find anything. The fire department was responding to smoke reports. When they got there they guy pulled his guns out on them. Does that sound like a normal reaction to firefighters?
Naturally they call the cops in. When they arrived his dog attacks their K-9. When a dog attacks a cop it gets shot. This is nothing new.

Here is another article.

www.timesnews.net...

Adams said the first truck to arrive was a fire department brush truck followed by an engine and rescue truck. When the man threatened them with a gun, they called 911 and asked for law enforcement officers to arrive quickly, he said.

Officers from the sheriff’s department, including its Special Weapons and Tactics Team, and the Erwin Police Department arrived soon. Harris and Gouge’s father, Steve, negotiated with Jason Gouge by phone in the early going. Those negotiations were still in progress around 9 p.m. by which time even more officers from the sheriff’s department had arrived.

[edit on 7/6/2007 by Umbrax]

First of all, his actions are a little suspect. That doesn't mean however that they were unwarranted. If the fire department just strolled onto his property without asking, then he has every right to ask them to leave. Did he need the gun to do that? No, not likely. But the point should be driven home here that a person has the right to defend their home from any intruder, be they criminal or "law enforcement", unless there's probable cause. I believe that seeing the man home would have been enough to tell the firemen that there was nothing wrong. Maybe I'm wrong, but I wasn't there. I'm merely taking the local law news media's word on all of this.

To clarify though, I wouldn't have pulled a gun on them. I would have gone down there and offered them a cup of coffee and an apology for their having to come out for nothing.

TheBorg

If my property is entered unlawfully, I will defend it with whatever means necessary. If this means weilding a gun in MY home, then so be it. They entered his house because a man refused entry to the fire department. So what? The fire department does not need to enter the home to investigate, they can simply ask the person if they are ok. If the person tells them "yes" and something is in fact wrong and the house or complex burns, then they will be responsible for lying to the department. Without a warrant, nobody can enter your home without your consent. If the police come to my house for a noise disturbance or whatever, rather than opening the door and inviting them in, I step out onto the porch and close the door behind me. If somebody decides to bust my door down and come after me with their dog, I might just shoot them. I have the right to refuse any unlawful entr of my home until sufficient warrants or documentation of matters of personal safety are brought to light. And if you shot my dog, you bet I'd be super pissed.

here's the full story:

www.timesnews.net...

[edit on 8-6-2007 by Eyeofhorus]

The bloke over reacted, would that of been any thing to do with the moonshine?!

He at least should have controlled his animal. He may not of recognised the fire dept. But when the police officers arrived that is a different issue. They would of very clearly identified them selves, 3.5 hour stand off is enough even for a very drunk person (do not know how intoxicated this man was - just pointing out) to figure out what’s goin on.

The police dog is just that a POLICE dog, an officer, afforded the protection the job requires. Would any one object to a dog being shot if it attacked a human officer (judging by some replies on this thread maybe I shouldn't ask). The bloke was a loon; he is the one responsible for the escalation that led to his animal's death.

I mean what are the police gonna do "No, he's taken his gun and barricaded him self in. We'd better go before he gets more upset!"

I sympathise with the people who feel authorities are taking liberties, but you seriously picked the wrong case to forward your argument with this one. Careful lest you take two giant leaps backwards!

The article says he was spinning his wheels and that was causing smoke so they came out to his property to investigate. I live a few hours from this guy and people here burn trash all of the time, several farmers burn off entire fields and the fire department has not shown up, and this guy spins his wheels and here comes the fire department.

This smells almost as bad as the trash fire my neighbor started the other night and threw a large stuffed animal into the fire that smoked for hours and smelled so bad I had to close my windows, but no fire department showed up to investigate the large amount of smoke at the edge of the woods, though they are right down the road.

When a police department makes a drug bust and gets a conviction, they get to keep all of the booty, (houses, cars, anything of value on the property) they also get more money from the gov., each time they make an arrest for drugs. This is all well and good until a police department gets greedy and starts breaking laws themselves to go after anyone they just suspect or someone with some valuable property.

There was a case where a land owner proved this happened to him (he had to act as his own attorney), and it took him years to prove it, but eventually he got his property back, and was able to keep from going to jail. Here is a link, not much there, I can't seem to find much on this case. If anyone can find more please post (TIA), and yes I know how to use a search engine.

www.aetv.com...


[edit on 8-6-2007 by goose]

I wonder wich of his nieghbors called the F.D., they were probably watching hysterically untill it got violent. Bad move for them I woulda just called the cops from the start.

We got some new neighbors and the Dad got a gocart for himself...never saw a youngster get a chance to ride it... but the dad was riding up and down the street repeatedly so we called the cops on him. ironically hes a F.D.geek who abuses his little siren every chance.