Bush Plan: Amnesty for Millions of Illegals in the US

Yeah, the more I think about this the madder I get - in fact, for all of you government snoops and spooks watching me on the interenet, I am MADDER THAN HELL!!! In fact, I'm just mad enough that when the armed revolution begins, you can count on my being a part of it!

Now I hear news that Harry Reid is going to attempt a cloture on the Bill AFTER normal hours in an attempt to silence debate on the issue! Hmmmmm, sounds a bit like a death wish to me! Folks this may well be the last straw for the public. There is virtually no support for this bill outside of the illegal immigrant community and select few bleeding heart liberals (You folks in Berkely with me on this?). In fact, joe average is in polar opposition to what is being rammed down our throats.

Keep it up politicians! Keep openly flouting the will of the masses. Our day will come - yours are numbered!

I'm not a big fan of all the calls for revolution that I see here, but this case is different. There has been no polling for the public opinion on this, no public debate, no publishing of the entire proposal for the time necessary to read it and understand all of its' implications. As I mentioned in an earlier post, a cloture vote is scheduled for sometime after 5:30PM today.

This bill has the potential to change the demographics of the US permanently, and not for the better. I cannot believe that the illegals have so easily managed to overtake our country. I cannot believe that our most senior politicians has have stumbled over each other in an effort to hand it over to them on a silver platter.

This should be considered political suicide for every politician that supports this bill, including John McCain who stated that he was proud to be a part of it. This should effectively end his bid for the presidency in 2008 and beyond.

It is currently being debated on C-SPAN2, fyi.

jsobecky... I understand your discomfort with the threat of revolution. I, too am disconcerted by the mere thought of it. However, I understand the Constitution well enough to know that once the document has been abrogated it is our RESPONSIBILITY to dissolve the government and begin anew.

I firmly believe that any politician that votes in favor of this Bill should be thrown out of office and no confidence votes demanded by the constituents immediately! They took an oath to uphold the Constitution and to provide for the security of our great nation - they are failing miserably and they are in direct violation of their oaths. They MUST be held accountable by the public or the Republic is over - finished!

Maybe I wasn't clear, Kozmo. I generally disagree with calls for revolution, but this case is different. I agree with your recommendation to throw the jackballs out of office immediately! We must do whatever is necessary to hold them acountable for selling us and our country out.

The vote for cloture on S 1348 has passed, 69 to 23. We have been sold out.

Viva la North American Union on the road to a 3rd world slavedome utopia.

The middle class's death blow has been struck and China is laughing too.



[edit on 21-5-2007 by Regenmacher]

Originally posted by jsobecky

Keep on blaming Bush if it makes you feel better

It does make me feel better to blame Bush, I dont know why, it just feels right to blame Bush.

I honestly do not blame Bush for much, I feel bad for him man. I can relate to him, like I know he was just a good ol American kid who has been corrupted and used by his father and pop's evil friends. I wish I could have hung out with him before all that, but I wasnt born yet.

To the rest of this I say, NAU here we come. I cannot wait. Its like our parents got to live through a major world life changing event, and I wish we all could too, and we will. It sure is going to be a fun ride fellas. Frankly I cant wait to make all these new friends from around the world again. It'll be a gas.

Well I know that I am not the only one upset about the pushing of amnesty by this congress, so I did what any other legal American voter can do right now as by our rights, E-mail your congressman and tell them how you feel and I found out that many of my friends has done just the same.

So everyday at least a few times a day it will be nice to inundate them with e-mails in opposition to this bill, tell your friends to do the same.

The thing that bother me the most is that American people do not want amnesty but we have been ignored.

One thing is sure, we'll need a LOT of rope when the people get back their government. A LOT. And a lot of trees.

I will not accept any NAU, will not accept a new constitution, they try to enforce it, we'll riot until they back down, if they shoot or refuse, we'll have to consider the last hope, the armed revolution as stated in the constitution. Jefferson was talking about a revolution every 20 years to keep the government in line... We didn't listen to him, we end up with a pretty bad thing.

And DYPES, you are kidding right? If you don't like the constitution, move to somewhere we're you'll like it, like in China or North Korea.

How exactly is this Amnesty again?

They have to pay 5,000 dollars, no small fee for the working poor, and they have to go back to their country and reapply. Its actually just short of mass deportation, at least their giving them a chance to come back...

The thing with Americans is: Americans think that Americans are the only people that really matter in the end. THAT IS NOT TRUE.

These people are coming to create a better life for themselves and their families, they are here to work and contribute. This bill is not even Amnesty, and what is wrong with Amnesty anyways? Have you people no hearts? Do you care only for yourselves, you couldnt give a damn whether poor spanish people need to come to America to survive?

Do you know whats happening in Central America? Its turmoil over there. The corruption is so bad over there, people are suffering. They are starving, theyre being killed in the streets, especially in Mexico with the revolution and drug cartels (funded and protected by Washington, thats why theyre not doing anything about it). Of course your gonna have masses of people rush over here. So what are you gonna do? Turn them away? Force them back to their country to DIE?

If we really cared for each other like were supposed to, we would let them in here, give them aid and comfort, let them work here to support themselves, as we speak out against the corrupt governments who are responsible for all this. If our governments did what their supposed to do, they would work to end the corruption and evil of the Mexican government and others, and help raise the standard of living, so THAT THE ILLEGALS HERE NOW CAN GO BACK TO THEIR COUNTRY, AND NOT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT DYING. We are in Iraq, supposedly, to help the people from corrupt government, right? Well what about right next door in Mexico? They need our help more than the Iraqis, the Iraqis want us out of there. If you really cared for other countries, and for your own for that matter, youd end the corruption in Mexico first, and not worry about ending it in Iraq, which doesnt effect you.

I havent heard anyone here or in Washington speak out against the corruption of the Mexican government, and all the countries in Latin America, these people are being raped by their governments, forced into slave labour where they work for pennies a day. Of course theyre gonna rush over here. But I dont hear anyone speaking out against the sweat shops, and drug cartels, and all of that. Instead, they speak out against the poor victims of all this, the poor people who only come here to work and survive. Its so heartless, you people should be ashamed of yourselves.

For those who dont agree with this bill, I ask you this: What is the alternative???

It seems to me that anything that is not mass deportation will be called Amnesty. YOU CANT MASS DEPORT 20 MILLION PEOPLE OUT OF THE ECONOMY, YOUR COUNTRY WILL FALL IN RUINS AROUND YOU. You cant, its just not realistic, in fact its very dangerous to your livelihood. And whos gonna pay for it? YOU ARE! The taxpayers will have to pay for the finding, and rounding up, detaining, prosecutions, and deportations of these people, all 20 million of them, cuz thats the real number. You cant afford that. The worst part is, once you deport them, theyre still gonna come back anyways! They always do! Youll have the same problems to complain about all over again.

Its not realistic to deport these people, it just isnt. They are here, you mays well find a way to integrate them. This is NOT Amnesty anyways, Amnesty is giving them a blank sheet, saying "oh you can be a citizen, have a nice day" thats not how it is. These people have to pay large fines, I dont think I could even pay a 5000 fine, Id go in debt. They have to go back to their country and reapply, at the "back of the line" as it says. They can apply for temporary visas that expire after 2 years, where then theyll have to go through the process. This is not Amnesty at all, in fact, it seems to me this is just short of total deportation, again, at least theyll have the chance to come back...

So, grow hearts people. Have sympathy for these poor families who only want to live in peace, and support their families, and live a comfortable lives. That is the right of every human being, and all the great Masters have told us, we are responsible for each others welfare. We are all one human family, so we all have a responsibility to take care of each other. But we dont, we bomb each other, kill each other, hate each other, show complete apathy to each other, and are so selfish we only care for our well being, the hell with everyone else. I think its time for a change.


[edit on 22-5-2007 by LightWorker13]

Yes I do agree that by deporting the masses of illegales out of the country would be bad for the economy, but it will also put the heat on Washington and the leaders of the country to actually do something.
There is another part of the bill that is not stated here, and I think all of you will be interested. If this bill passes, then non of the guest workers will be required to pay any Taxes. So what that means is that a highly educated immigrant who does not want to pay taxes, can apply and get a guest visa and then after that go home for a few weeks and come back. Well if that happens why can't we all apply for that same guest visa and not have to pay taxes?

The so call working poor is already legal american citizens trying to live up the dream, now our own elected government wants to push more poor to the already dying middle class group on this nation to support the new wave of unemployed.

People that has not money to pay the 5,000 dollars will stay here as illegals, and still more illegals will come in, because the bill is just putting a bandage to the wound.

The ones that would affort to pay their fine will end up wanting to enjoy the benefits of social welfare and will join the ranks of burden to a system that is already to the braking point as more middle class lose their american dreams.

Most immigrants have not school and many can not even read or write what we are suppouse to do with them?

Put them on welfare? This bill is the biggest slap to the face of every hard working American in this nation.

[edit on 22-5-2007 by marg6043]

Well I suggest you watch America Freedom to Fascism, great documentary by Aaron Russo, where youll see just how fraudulent taxes are anyways.

America Freedom to Fascism

There is no law that says we have to pay federal income taxes, and has been proven in the Supreme Court over and over? Really, I bet most people didnt know that...check that video, theres a reason this film won so many awards.

The banks print the money from their presses, out of NOTHING. Literally, trees and ink are all you need to create money. The idea that the government needs to take money from the people to support themselves, is ludicrous. The banks can print as much, or as little, money as they want. The idea is to keep YOU DOWN, it to use the money they STEAL from you to do things that dont even help you.

Did you know the word "tax" comes from a word that meant "to steal"? In slang, when you "tax" someone, it means you stole something from them. This is no accident, taxes are illegal and immoral, even Jesus said that, so you should really think about it.

But I guess this is another subject for another time I guess.

The Illegals are not the problem with America. The problem with America, and the problem all around the world, is corporate greed and government corruption all tied in together. In fact, they work as a team, to supress you. Doesnt that make you feel good? Did you know that is the fundamental definition of Fascism? Benito Mussolini even said, Fascism should be called Corporatism, where the governments and corporations work together to centralize power in their hands, and suppress the people. That is whats happening in America.

The War on the Middle Class is being waged by YOUR GOVERNMENT and your CORPORATIONS who people seem to defend so much. They are your real enemies, cant you recognize that? Its not Al Queda, its not Arabs, its certainly not poor mexican families trying to better their lives no, its your Establishment, they are your real enemies.

So instead of fighting the illegals, fight the corruption of the governments and corporations that cause all this mess in the first place. If they did what theyre supposed to do, people would be living in peace and harmony. Its completely opposite of that, and you know why, because they DO NOT DESIRE PEACE NOR HARMONY. They desire division, chaos, conflict, they seek to divide and rule, cuz they get more power out of it.

Illegal immigrants coming here to survive are not the people you should be worried about. Your government and corporations are the real war mongerers, fighting a war on you, with terror, fear, making you poor, and keeping your mind thinking they are the good guys. Wake up.

well Lightworker13... I agree with you on every point - except illegal immigration. Kick them out - deport them now! How would it have a negative effect on the economy? So a few fat-cat business owners lose some profit because they lose slave labor? Pffffft! I can live with that! I can also live with my apples, oranges and tomotos costing a dime more each to pay REAL LEGAL AMERICANS to do the work!

They are here ILLEGALLY! There is nothing more to discuss. When you break the law, you pay the consequence. What you fail to understand is that the government has never followed the letter of the law on this or they would have been deported IMMEDIATELY save the instances of safe harbor.

I doubt any reasonable person has a problem with someone immigrating to the US for a better life. All 4 of my grandparents did it - LEGALLY! Know what - THOUSANDS of other people do it legally every single year!

The problem is that US is NOT the world's safe haven! It shouldn't be my responsibility to provide food, shelter, welfare, medical and education for ILLEGAL aliens. But they come here, break the law - many laws in fact, and then demand the same rights as people who have waited years to become LEGAL US residents. Then, to add insult to injury, they refuse to learn English or assimilate in any manner and instead talk about "Conquista" and "La Raza" and taking back their land.

WAKE UP! This is an invasion - armed, unarmed or otherwise! We are being invaded and the politicans in office are fiddling while Rome burns. The is ZERO political will to secure the borders. There is zero political will to protect the citizenry. There is zero political will to uphold their oaths to defend the Constitution and serve the people! And I, for one, am beyond furious over this!

I am a born American citizen, and I do not mind this at all. And Vitch sorry buddy, but whatever your planning you will fail, and there will not be anyone to take your place as you hope. I enjoy some parts of our constitution, and disagree with some parts. The Ameircan constitution is not the Holy Grail, Fountain of Youth, the Ark or whatever. America as we kow it will not last forever, and niether will Canada. Its all part of the cycle of humanity.

I understand you are afraid of change, especially because it will bring a complete merger of cultures, but it is not something to fight. People only suffer when you start fighting. If you just let it pass, you will still have the same job, and opportunity to get a better one if you wish. You will still have the same channels on TV, the same consumer goods in the store, the same food on the shelves. The same neighbors, the same schools for your kids. Your neighborhoods will not suddenly combust into flames, and your vehicles will not all of a sudden be burglarized out of nowhere.

Just take a chill, and give it a shot. All your fears are based on paranoid opinions by other conspiracy theorists, and not the law as it is written.

Its an invasion!!

Why dont you go to a Aztec, or Apache, or a Navajo reserve and ask them about invasions, your forefathers raped and killed their forefathers in a real invasion. So dont talk about invasions, this isnt even your land to begin with..

Second, yea, taking 20 million people out of the work force will cause havoc to your economy.

For those people who think that the hiring of illegals is driving down your wages, please explain your argument because it makes no sense. If an American was hired for the same job, theyd be paying them MORE than theyre paying the illegals. So if Americans were working instead of illegals, your wages would be dropping even more. Theres no basis at all for that argument.

Its like the Gas companies saying its terrorists in Sudan that are responsible for the raise in prices, I mean that is just ridiculous. Its corporations that are responsible for wages, workers are not paid their fair share from the wealth they generate anyways, the only thing dropping wages, the only thing ruining America is corporate greed and government corruption, its actually two fronts of the same force, waging a war on you, the people.

They are here illegally? Why because they cant wait 5 6 years to go through the immigration system so they have to come over the fence? These people are desperate, its only logical. Theres no food where you live, in America theres food, so you go. Its not rocket science.

These people cant wait, they need money, they need to work. If you wanna solve the illegal immigration problem, fix your slow and inadequate immigration system, which has a backlog of millions.

I personally dont even agree with borders or nationalism, I think these have been tools used by our Elite to divide and rule the population of the human race, but thats just me...and again, how are you gonna deport 20 million people?

As for the La Raza and the Conquistas, those are funded by Washington anyways! Bush and his corporate buddies even funded the rallies, and supplied all the Mexican flags. These are being used to make you think there is an invasion, and to clamour for stronger governmental control to fix it. Stronger security, more laws, more cameras, more police, more this more that.

I suggest you go read FEMAs executive orders, and see just how UNLAWFUL your governments and their departments really are.

FEMA executive orders

And another thing...

If this really is an "invasion" as its labeled to be, well what are you guys doing off across the world invading other countries?

While your off invading Iraq and Afghanistan to bring "freedom" to the people, right at home, your being invaded by these foreigners who are destroying your way of life, apparently.

So while your being invaded, your off invading instead of protecting the homeland as they say? While you pour billions and billions of dollars overseas in some war, you leave the borders at home wide open for these "invaders"? I mean how illogical is that...how stupid is that...what is your government thinking??


[edit on 24-5-2007 by LightWorker13]

in the beginning of the movie Apocalypto, there was a quote they stated that went along the lines of:

A civilization cannot be conquered from without, until they have destroyed themselves from within

I do not really know what relevance that holds to this topic, but it certainly makes sense to me. You know in Europe the average person knows at least the basics of two foreign languages. Here in America the youth barely know their own English language, let alone Spanish. I think a cultural merger would do well to help our people learn a different language.

It is better to live together in harmony, than to be apprehensive and isolated in repugnance.