Originally posted by johnlear
Much of the anti-Billy Meier stuff on the web in unsigned and unattributed.

This is what I wanted to hear from you John.

The obvious fake photos that are attributed to Billy are not actually Billy's. This is what I believe. The photos that are the subject of so much scrutiny here at ATS are not Billy's. This is my opinion.

That raises the question of why Billy didn't say something. Well, I believe he's either been paid off or threatened to keep his mouth shut. It's as simple as that people.

Peace

Originally posted by Dr Love


The obvious fake photos that are attributed to Billy are not actually Billy's. This is what I believe. The photos that are the subject of so much scrutiny here at ATS are not Billy's. This is my opinion.

What about the not so obvious fakes then, the ones that took some time to figure out.. Saying that everything that is fake, is not from Billy is taking the very easy way out of the situation.. Everything published on the web is claimed to be real and authentic footage from Meier, he is the one who released the pictures, not the people who find the problems on them. Maybe Meier should just pull all pictures of the web if he can't guaranty they are real.

[edit on 20/5/2007 by Cygnific]

See, this is why I wanted to keep this thread on topic, It has already been shown in the other thread that Meier has indeed touted some pictures as real,(dinosaurs, Asket and Nera, outer space pictures). I'll say that again because some people like to ignore that.


BILLY MEIER SAID THOSE PICTURES WERE REAL AND THE PICTURES HE TOOK. HE ONLY CHANGED HIS STORY WHEN IT WAS DISCOVERED THEY WERE FAKES.


Gaz, I still have not gotten a reply.... How did you do that. And how does a FIGU Member not know who their authorized rep is?

This is getting stinkier and stinkier.

Originally posted by Tiloke
See, this is why I wanted to keep this thread on topic, It has already been shown in the other thread that Meier has indeed touted some pictures as real,(dinosaurs, Asket and Nera, outer space pictures). I'll say that again because some people like to ignore that.

Well, it is a noble effort on your part trying to keep this thread on topic. You'd think with over 1,000 posts on the other thread that beat this issue to death that both proponents and detractors of Meier could figure out that this thread is not about the truth of the Meier stuff. Is it reeally that intellectually challenging to keep this point in mind?

Whether MH is an authorized representative of Meier is independent of the 'truth' of Meier. It is an interesting issue even if the Meier stuff is 100% true.

I have absolutely no interest in arguing whether or not Billy Meier is a fraud or not, and I won't voice my opinion here because this thread IS NOT ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT BILLY IS FOR REAL.

that said; the Michael Horn thing is pretty damn curious. How can Figu not know who their own US rep is? he HAS gone all over the place claiming to be Billy Meier's rep, and spoken for him numerous times on talk shows; you'd think if nothing else, they'd at least be AWARE of the guy. this is all very very fishy.

Tiloke, about the wikipedia page... I checked the internet archive project ( www.archive.org )and I couldn't find any archived wikipedia pages on Michael Horn, so if the page ever DID exist, then it wasn't up for very long. maybe you were reading about Horn on another wiki somewhere?

I also find it interesting that in Billy Meier's Wikipedia page, they have one brief mention of Michael Horn, and the reference cited that he is Meier's US rep is Michael's own website, and nothing else.

Curiouser and curiouser...

[edit on 20/5/2007 by Nick Nightstalker]

Originally posted by DarkCyrus
I'm extremely appalled and distressed by Tiloke's many responses....I'm offended and I commend everyone of light and the freedom of information act, the constitution amendments for their peaceful good will and intention's for that I thank you.

OK, so you are appalled, distressed, and offended. I don't think the fact that you are reporting this reaction is going to carry much weight around here. I'm also kind of puzzled over the constitutional amendment bit. It's not parsing for me, I'm afraid.

But please try to understand the situation. Tiloke thinks he may be on to something. That something is the claim by Mr. Horn that he is the "authorized American representative" of Billy Meier's group. Due to his research he thinks it is possible Mr. Horn does not quite hold that position. He has put forth some reasoning why this might be true. It is just a theory at this point. He's not saying it's proven true and he is seeking more information in an attempt to find out while soliciting input here. He may find out this amounts to nothing and I believe he acknowledges the possibility.

But look what has happened. Many people have decided to express their views that the Billy Meier story is True. This is regardless of the fact that the truth or falsehood of the Meier information is not at issue here. Tiloke is trying to keep the thread on topic, i.e.: Directed at the issue of Mr. Horn's representation. He's being frustrated in his attempt to do so because so many people are turning this into a typical "Meier is Right" thread. They are not paying attention to the title of the thread. They are, in essence, hijacking the thread for their own purposes. Since the owner/moderator says this is okay, we just have to live with it.

But if anyone should feel appalled, distressed, and offended it is Tiloke, not you. Of course, I'm not suggesting you feel any way at all. Feel any way you want to, but if you'd like to feel even more appalled, distressed and offended, jump on over to the Billy Meier ray gun thread and read those 1,000+ posts. I guarantee you'll feel more distressed if you get through those, where all this has been debated at length before.

Exactly, Shuyler.

The thread is about Michael Horn, not about Billy Meier.

I still don't understand why Horn was so enthusiastic in his defence of Meier??? Horn does gain financially from the Meier story, right? Which is in obvious motive for him to keep the argument going.

Keep digging and see where the links and loose ends take us with Horn's relationship to Meier.

Thank you all so much for your support, it came at a time when it was needed.

Based on the information available, we have to assume that Horn does indeed profit from the story. All of his sites sales links go not to FIGU or BillyMeier.com, but to his own sales site. His prices are dramatically lower then Meiers group charges, for reasons only known by him. If he was connected to the group and was their rep. in America, wouldn't he link to their sites? How come Billies own site tells people in America that want more info to contact Scott Whitney and not their authorized rep?

The page I saw may not have been on Wikipedia but it was a Wiki page. A current google search finds nothing and I can't find a way to recover my browser history. (anyone know anything about firefox?)

I have also been unable to find a picture of Horn at Meiers farm or holding the "ray gun", if anyone knows where I can find those pictures I would appreciate it.

If I ask Springer if I can talk about ATS on a German news station message board while I am in Germany, and he says yes, does that make me an "authorized media representative of ATS in Germany"? Technically , yes, but using those words make it seem like I am in constant contact and receiving instructions from ATS, when in fact I am not. I think Mr. Horn is doing something like that.
-----------------------------------EDIT FOR GAZROK------------------------

I checked my "screened mail" folder and theres nothing from them in there either. Maybe I should not have sent a link to the 2 active threads concerning Meier and Horn and told them who I was in my e-mail...........

However, it may be for the best. Having the information come from a moderator is better than it coming from the person making accusations.

Here's another can of worms, how do we know an e-mail you get is from the person you think its from? It's possible to make it seem like your e-mailing from the oval office if you know what your doing.. Maybe some ATS'ers will know how to protect against that.


[edit on 20-5-2007 by Tiloke]

Gaz, I still have not gotten a reply.... How did you do that. And how does a FIGU Member not know who their authorized rep is?

Be sure to check your junk mail folder, as you may have it set to exclusive. Your second question is one I asked myself...and is curious.

I also received an e-mail from Mr. Horn, so even though I believe he was banned (hadn't really checked this yet), I know he's aware of the inquiry, and hopefully, assuming he is the authorized rep, he can speed along a confirmation. As I said, I'd find it surprising if he somehow wasn't, but it was certainly a valid and important question.

Here's another can of worms, how do we know an e-mail you get is from the person you think its from? It's possible to make it seem like your e-mailing from the oval office if you know what your doing.. Maybe some ATS'ers will know how to protect against that.

True, but since I originally solicited the e-mail, and got a reply next day from that domain, I'm fairly confident it's from FIGU.

[edit on 20-5-2007 by Gazrok]

Its funny this thread popped up because i was speaking to a Meier researcher who will be traveling to met Meier later on this year. When i brought the words "Micheal Horn" he told me "I want nothing to do with the man, he just spreads disinformation on the case. After all he does not even speak German and all the contact notes are."

I have also had my mates ask other FIGU members if Micheal really holds the title he claims.

[edit on 20-5-2007 by helium3]

Hi. Maybe slightly off-topic but I'm curious as about the following quote from the FIGU site:

"NOTE: The FIGU Los Angeles Study Group was
officially ended on December 31, 2005."

Does anyone know why this was disbanded? Thanks.

To my knowledge, Michael Horn is the authorised US media rep. I don't think Mr. Horn is that stupid to present himself as such when he isn't. I'm not sure that there is a written contract that can be showed, probably there's a verbal understanding/agreement. Such a thing is visible in articles dealing with Horn's predecessor, Randolph Winters.
I've also heard that a percentage of the sales earned by Horn goes back to Switzerland so that would suggest a business understanding. The new Meier site doesn't list Horn as a supporter but it has just been upgraded so maybe it will appear soon. Maybe, just maybe, there's some disagreement and Horn's name isn't listed. Nonetheless, this thread will mostlikely work to Horn's advantage who's known to take advantage of someone who's off balance. It happend before.

Despite my disagreement with the Meier case, I'm still fairly cordial with Mr. Horn in discussing the case, and I'll post his e-mail reply tomorrow. (going to bed now...so)

Here's the reply I said I'd post...

Originally posted by Gazrok
Here's the reply I said I'd post...

Michael Horn (Who thinks he's still the) Authorized American Media Representative.

Hehe, atleast he has some humor to it seems

Yep...

I'll admit, it is usually an enjoyable debate, but I suppose that somewhere in those 50+ pages of the Meier thread, he (Horn) violated the T&C enough to where he was eventually banned. (I didn't really see the exact exchange, as I wasn't part of that). In any case, I see nothing wrong with asking Horn himself to help clear up the matter....as it is an intriguing supposition... Still, it would be nice to see something from Billy's folks closing the matter, so we're still waiting I suppose.

The very simple fact that he needs to check if he still is the representative in the usa with billy speak volumes. It makes clear that if true it was just a verbal agreement and that he did it just to sell meier stuffs. Of course we already knew that, but he just confirmed with his own words. "I need to check with billy" He doesn't know?? wow!! lol
like everything else related with this .... that is pretty funny.
Maybe they decided to verbally remove him? because it's really funny that a person that claims to want to spread messages of peace from aliens?? gets so angry and start names calling and others non peaceful behavior. IRONY.

Tiloke-

Fantastic thread. This is MUCH more exciting than the tired old pictures and videos debate. Keep it up. I'll be watching for updates.

I wrote Mr. Horn request some clarification to a few of the issues being discussed. This is his reply.



Hi JK,

Thanks for the publicity. Answers inserted below.


Greetings Mr. Horn.

I am the person that started the thread on ATS about you. I was
hoping you would answer a few questions concerning some "loose
ends" to help clear up the confusion.

1. Why aren't you listed anywhere on Meiers site or FIGUs?

MH: The FIGU site was recently redone with FIGU USA now hosting it,
instead of the Swiss group. If you had seen the former site you would
have seen my name all over it, and the reference to my being their
rep. This will be put up on the new site in time,a s it is still
under construction.
>For clarification, on the old site , he was listed in one place only as a proponent,NOT an "authorized rep", with NO links to his site. I already covered this.

2. Why do your sales links go to different sites that both Meiers
and Figus?

MH: I'm not totally sure what you mean. The www.billymeier.com site
is NOT Meier's own site but rather some U.S. people who host it.
Confirmed, the site is owned by Steelmarkonline. However, did you notice how he avoided answering the question?

3. Why are your prices dramatically lower than both Meiers and FIGUs?

MH: I hope you're not complaining! Actually, I don't know. I don't
even know what products we carry in common that are differently
priced as I haven't looked at them. If you have some specific items
in mind please let me know.
A few simple clicks on his computer would easily tell him what products I am talking about. Misdirection to avoid answering the question.

4. How come FIGU members do not know who you are?

MH: I don't think that's actually the case. Maybe there's SOMEONE who
didn't know what my role is but if you visit the online FIGU Forum,
linked from www.theyfly.com, you'll see that I'm all over it.
Again, misdirection to avoid the question. I post all over ATS but that doesn't mean I represent ATS.

5. Have you personnaly met Meier? When , Where , pictures of you 2
together?

MH: Sure, this will be my 8th trip over. I may have a photo or two
around here but I'd have to look and, since I leave again for
Switzerland in the morning, it won't happen now. However, the new
film on the case that I'm producing has both of us in it.
"I'm to busy to prove it, buy my new video and you'll see."

5. How come FIGU tells people that want more info to go to Scott
Whitney and not their "authorized rep"?

MH: I think you may be referring to what's said on the new U.S. site
but, as I mentioned, they'll be linking to me and my site n the near
future. Some other people are also out of town so it might take a
little while.
Time will tell.

6. Is there a written contract between you and Meier or FIGU?

MH: Yes, there actually is. And we both agreed that my work would be
voluntary, uncompensated, free, etc. and that I also would not be
paying FIGU/Meier anything from my own lectures, etc. We deliberately
did it that way so that I'd be free to disagree (which I sometimes
do) write differing opinions (which I have) and basically keep it all
clean.
So , you have a contract, but theres nothing on it?

7. How much profit from your sales are sent to Meier, if any?

MH: See 6. above.
"See above" .... Thats a different way of saying,"I keep all the money I make off Meiers story."

Also, since you've not only started the thread but expressed interest
in knowing more about these matters(I did?!?!!? WHERE?), I am including below a few
photos that I didn't post at ATS. I also sent these privately to
XXXXX(edited to protect Mods name) at ATS so I'll include the same comments that I sent him:

Below are four of the "sunlight" shots (March 29, 1976), which have
some unique characteristics, i.e. notice blurred branches in front,
clearer ship and tree in distance, lack of so-called "horizontal
support" connecting UFO and tree, multiple trees which are clearly
not models (there's even a photo of the main tree - with a man
standing next to it - in Vol. 1 Contact from the Pleiades), etc.

You might better understand now why I'm kinda enjoying Ritzmann,
Biedney and others giving their very "educated" opinions about
models, etc. Of course they would try to say that these were models
too - but the accumulated evidence (including the existence of the
tree/man photo) eliminates the possibility.

As for the WCUFO "garbage can lid" theory, they would likewise
naturally claim that the photo of the bottom of the craft (at night)
must be a hair dryer or something that Meier attached!

Have fun, I am with lots more to come in the near future...at the
expense of our "esteemed" (and soon to be steamed) "experts".

Best,

MH
AAMR, etc.


Now, I was going to not post the advertising he sent me at the end, but decided to keep it in. I will not be posting the photos because one of the rules in the ATS T&C states:

1). Posting: You will not post any material that is knowingly false, misleading, or inaccurate.

However, I will tell you that the "UFO" in the pictures he sent me is the same one in the following computer enhanced picture being held up by a string. I'll post small snippet of one of the photos Michael sent me for comparison.



Since Mr. Horn himself assured me that it's not a model, I have to assume that the string is an emergency back-up so the Plejareans wont crash to Earth during a malfunction....

[edit on 22-5-2007 by Tiloke]

What an absolute snow-job of a reply by Horn. Misdirection and avoidance. The worst part is that it's so obvious. He hasn't perfected the technique to blend his answers, with his fiction, to create a response that might be credible!