Chinese writing '8,000 years old' found., page 1
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Topic started on 18-5-2007 @ 08:44 PM by mojo4sale
Chinese writing '8,000 years old'

If this writing is authenticated as such it would then predate Sumerian text as the earliest form of written communication.

bbc article

Chinese archaeologists studying ancient rock carvings say they have evidence that modern Chinese script is thousands of years older than previously thought.



xinhuanet link

The pictographs are on the rock carvings in Damaidi, at Beishan Mountain in northwest China's Ningxia Hui Autonomous Region, which covers about 450 square kilometers with more than 10,000 prehistoric rock carvings.
Paleographers claim that the pictographs may take the history of Chinese characters back to 7,000 to 8,000 years ago.


www.china.org link

Besides its large number, the rock art in Damaidi is also peculiar for its rich and varied subject matter, including mythological creatures, animals, symbolic designs, events and human figures, Zhou added.
Half of the cliff carvings were created during the Neolithic Age about 7,000 years ago, and the animal figures, such as sheep, horses, deer, dogs and tigers, were the dominant images in the petroglyphs of that time, according to Li Xiangshi, a researcher with the Cliff Carving Research Center of the No 2 Northwest College of Nationalities.


There was also this discovery of an earlier written text found in Pakistan which would also predate Sumerian and Egyptian text. Though this discovery was made a number of years ago.

bbc link

So-called 'plant-like' and 'trident-shaped' markings have been found on fragments of pottery dating back 5500 years.
They were found at a site called Harappa in the region where the great Harappan or Indus civilisation flourished four and a half thousand years ago.


"It's a big question as to if we can call what we have found true writing," he told BBC News Online, "but we have found symbols that have similarities to what became Indus script.


It is interesting that as more and more discovery's take place that the 'accepted view' of human history is getting pushed further back.
'Established facts' are often being put forth by authoritive historians as arguments against alternative historical view points being expressed, yet when the goal posts are regularly being moved it seems illogical to not at least consider some of the alternative views being tendered.

I've often felt that our view of ancient history is no where near as accurate as some claim and that there will continue to be some amazing discoveries.

Perhaps even the discovery of older civilisations previously unknown to modern man. We can only hope. Your thoughts?

cheers mojo.


reply posted on 21-5-2007 @ 05:45 PM by apollyon_uk

The links provided in the opening post are at least from archaeologists/researchers, what have you offered other than opinion.

I think you need to re-read these reports with a little dose of scepticism and not accept anything you see written in the news as gospel
the claims for the 8000 year old date come from one man
Zhou Xinghua, member of the International Cliff Painting Committee

who is neither a researcher or an archaeologist
he is the former curator of the Ningxia regional museum
in other words hes an administrator
Ningxia regional museum is an institution that makes all its revenue from these particular paintings
so its a bit like the curator of the natural history museum in london claiming that they have discovered something so far unknown to science in the museum basement and are planning to show it to the public (for a small fee)
they are making out like this date has been confirmed
it hasn't
and that these paintings have been proven as writing
they haven't
and that this source is proven reliable
it isn't

so until they actually present some solid evidence I really don't see how I have to debunk anything
because so far
all we've got is the word of one man who has a clear ulterior motive for saying this

most of the unbiased reports I have read on this also say
Similar carvings have been discovered in Greece and Austria.

none of whom are claiming anything like this at all
actually similar carvings have pretty well been discovered world wide

in future you should wait and see what later analysis says before jumping in to support a wild claim like this so vociferously
you're hanging your ass out in the wind and inviting people to kick it really which would be a real shame imo






reply posted on 21-5-2007 @ 07:13 PM by mojo4sale
Mate, maybe you need to read whats being posted, firstly in the OP i said,

originally posted by mojo4saleIf this writing is authenticated


And then i asked,

originally posted by mojo4saleYour thoughts?


Where exactly have i jumped in to support a wild claim, i even linked to a site where differing views were expressed. No where have i determined this to be definitive evidence. I stated IF and then i asked for comments from members, hoping for some discussion on the finds, what have you offered so far in the way of a meaningful contribution to the discussion.

From the second link.

said Li Xiangshi, a cliff carving expert at the North University of Nationalities based in Yinchuan, capital of Ningxia.


said Liu Jingyun, an expert on ancient Oracle Bone characters.


From the third link.

said Chen Zhaofu, an expert of ancient rock art with the Central University of Nationalities.


Li and his colleague Shu Xihong presented a report concerning Damaidi rock art at a seminar held in Beijing.


The third link contains differing opinions as to the age of the discoveries, so i'm not trying to push an agenda there.

Bold is my emphasis

Zhou Xinghua from Ningxia Museum argued that the earliest rock art in Damaidi dates back to the Paleolithic Age.
The conclusion was reached by analyzing the content, style, technique, colour and preservation status of the cliff carvings, and by comparing them with other excavated relics, Zhou explained.
But Chen Zhaofu argued that most of the carvings would be about 3,000-year-old.
Because they mostly reflected the culture of the Xiongnu or the nomadic Hun people during the 3rd and 2nd centuries BC, Chen explained.
He also stressed that all the arguments needed to be proved by modern technology and in-depth research.


There are quotes from at least 5 individuals, not just one man as you state, and 1 of the individuals quoted suggests caution when reviewing these claims. So are you interested in contributing to the thread or are you just trolling. Either offer constructive criticism or discussion or go and annoy someone else cause i'm done with explaining myself to self styled authority's who cant be bothered reading. Btw this is a discussion forum which is why i posted this article to start with because i found it interesting.

For those who may be interested,
Could these characters, if that is what they are, be the precursors to the language found on the Shang oracle bones.

Link

The inscriptions on these bones tell us that by 1200 BC Chinese writing was already a highly developed writing system which was used to record a language fairly similar to classical Chinese. Such a complex and sophisticated script certainly has a history but so far we found no traces of its predecessors.



The Jiahu script dates to roughly the same time frame as the Damaidi rock art , so may also be related. Though the Jiahu script is mostly symbols that appear singly and are not thought to be writing they could be the precursor to what eventually became Chinese writing. These date to around 6500bc.

bbc link

The archaeologists say they bear similarities to written characters used thousands of years later during the Shang dynasty, which lasted from 1700-1100 BC.


But Professor Keightley did say the signs appeared to be highly "schematised" or stylised. This is a feature of Chinese written characters.


cheers mojo.



[edit on 21/5/07 by mojo4sale]

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