Honestly, this just shows where his loyalties REALLY lie; with the oil moguls and other elitists. I'm sure the soldiers, upon hearing about this, won't be happy, since they don't make very much as it is. As has been mentioned already, they have the hardest job on Earth. Why don't we pay them like they do?? To me, something is wrong with that picture.

TheBorg

Originally posted by TheBorg
I'm sure the soldiers, upon hearing about this, won't be happy, since they don't make very much as it is.

No foolin'
Even during the time of my hitch (late 1980's), military pay was still 11% below the "Poor" category...Ever since the Corps have been shuffling American jobs overseas, hiring illegals & lower pay while kicking out American employees & the Government still (illegally) taxing the hell out of everybody, I'd be willing to bet that the military-to-civilian pay-discrepancy has only widened since then!


[edit on 18-5-2007 by MidnightDStroyer]

This is absolutely irresponsible and unreasonable.

One. The United States is the wealthiest nation on earth with a GNP over 11 trillion dollars.

Two. The United States Defense Budget is Annually higher than what the rest of the entire Planet Earth combined spends on their Defense Annually over 400 billion.
Sometimes people dont understand what that means. That means China, Russa, all of NATO, India, Japan, and everyone else on Earth combined dont freaking spend as much as we do in a year on our military. Another way of looking at it: we spend more than China and Russia on our military than what they spend in their total Government Budgets combined.

Three. Our active duty military is not the largest in the world. Our total active duty forces come in under 2 million.

Four. The average soldier makes less than 20 thousand US dollars a year. Soldiers often draw food stamps to suppliment their income and do other part time work to support their families.

This angers me to no end. Military personnel sacrifice their freedoms, rights, often marriages and health. They sacrifice their lives for our future and we can't pay them properly.

The Military-Industrial Complex lines its pockets with our Defense budget.
Over 80 billion sunk into the Commanche program then cancelled. The Crusader program canceled with billions down the drain. The M-8 Assault rifle canceled. The UCAV,Unmanned Combat Air Vehicle, program canceled after Billions wasted. The THEL, Tactical High Energy Laser, program canceled after Billions wasted.

All that money on projects and programs that were canceled is waste. We could of been putting more money in the Program that is backbone of the military: The People.

so this is how the worlds largest current super power treats its own forces
what a joke

they have 400+ billion yet a simple pay rise is going to make they go broke, im supprised americans in general support their troops yet support a president who just sees them as pawns that he can do as he pleases

Originally posted by bodrul
so this is how the worlds largest current super power treats its own forces
what a joke

they have 400+ billion yet a simple pay rise is going to make they go broke, im supprised americans in general support their troops yet support a president who just sees them as pawns that he can do as he pleases

It is embarassing and humiliating. If people really supported the military they would be demanding that the military get paid fairly.

The problem is most people beyond flag waving and yellow ribbons don't really care. They use the military as an excuse to gripe at Bush. They claim they support the troops and tell Bush to bring them home, but they could care less about what happens after they would be brought back.

Both parties are at fault. Most politicians and corporate executives look down upon the military as uneducated and coming from poor families.
That is far from the truth. If you expect to get promoted above E-5 you have to have at least an Associates degree, above E-6 it gets worse. You cant get promoted with out college period. Most soldiers come from Middle income families.

I guess though if everyone in your family has multiple master's degrees and are multimillionaires then most people from your point of view not only in the military but the country are uneducated and poor.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
I guess though if everyone in your family has multiple master's degrees and are multimillionaires then most people from your point of view not only in the military but the country are uneducated and poor.

Chances are that if these people you spoke of actually had those multiple Master's Degrees and multi millions of dollars, they wouldn't be in the military anyway. They'd actually be the children of the corrupt politicians and other elitists. Only they are privy to that kind of lifestyle apparently.

TheBorg

Originally posted by TheBorg

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
I guess though if everyone in your family has multiple master's degrees and are multimillionaires then most people from your point of view not only in the military but the country are uneducated and poor.

Chances are that if these people you spoke of actually had those multiple Master's Degrees and multi millions of dollars, they wouldn't be in the military anyway. They'd actually be the children of the corrupt politicians and other elitists. Only they are privy to that kind of lifestyle apparently.

TheBorg

Thats my point. When a politician like Sen John Kerry says something along the lines of military personnel being dumb and poor, he is in effect saying all of America is dumb and poor from his point of view.

Just before he started this ill concieved war, he tried to slash veterans benefits and to reduce hazardous duty pay. The man has no shame.

Typical Democrat politics. Instead of showing support for the troops by funding their mission, they are arguing with the Commander in Chief over a 1/2 % pay raise. It's called "over-compensating". America knows Democrats are weak when it comes to supporting the troops, so they throw out a 1/2 percent pay raise over what the President recommended, knowing it will never happen. But as always with Democrats...It's the thought that counts.

Originally posted by RRconservative
Typical Democrat politics. Instead of showing support for the troops by funding their mission, they are arguing with the Commander in Chief over a 1/2 % pay raise. It's called "over-compensating". America knows Democrats are weak when it comes to supporting the troops, so they throw out a 1/2 percent pay raise over what the President recommended, knowing it will never happen. But as always with Democrats...It's the thought that counts.

Irregardless of politics. I cant really stand either party. I believe the military should get equal pay to federal empoyees.

Originally posted by RRconservative
Typical Democrat politics. Instead of showing support for the troops by funding their mission, they are arguing with the Commander in Chief over a 1/2 % pay raise. It's called "over-compensating". America knows Democrats are weak when it comes to supporting the troops, so they throw out a 1/2 percent pay raise over what the President recommended, knowing it will never happen. But as always with Democrats...It's the thought that counts.

Have you ever served? Do you have any idea the piss ant pay they get in the military?

Support the troops by funding their misguided and ill concieived mission? Support the president is what you mean... in case you have not noticed... the surge is not working and our people are dying and bleeding more than before.


Currently the rate of pay for E-1 is $1301 a month...E-2 is $1458... E-3 $1729 and those rates do not change regardless of how long you have been in for those 3 ranks, which are BTW that standard for your average 4 year enlistment... for E-4 which is the beginning of the petty officer rank it starts at $1786 and increases with duration.

In case you haven't noticed it is not exactly great pay.

[edit on 19-5-2007 by grover]

Originally posted by grover

Have you ever served? Do you have any idea the piss ant pay they get in the military?

Currently the rate of pay for E-1 is $1301 a month...E-2 is $1458... E-3 $1729 and those rates do not change regardless of how long you have been in for those 3 ranks, which are BTW that standard for your average 4 year enlistment... for E-4 which is the beginning of the petty officer rank it starts at $1786 and increases with duration.

In case you haven't noticed it is not exactly great pay.

[edit on 19-5-2007 by grover]

Yes I served in the U.S. Army from 1987-1990. Never had to pay for health care, rent, food, and I also went to college and the Army paid for that also! I also was serving my country, and there is no price you can put on that.

Not bad once you add up all the benefits!

Arguing over a 1/2% pay raise is pure politics.

Perhaps you might feel differently if your life were actually on the line for $1400 a month. And before you ask yes I am a veteran.

The service personal deserve a hell of a lot more than they are given... think about it bud, how much they actually value your patriotism that they won't even pay the average grunt, the one who bleeds and dies a decent wage.

1/2%...100% doesn't matter they deserve it. Especially when they are dying in a war sold on lies.

[edit on 19-5-2007 by grover]

I served from 1999-2007 and the money is not enough to support a family on. Its fine for a single soldier who lives in a barracks, doesnt have to pay at the chow hall, etc. A family though usually has to pay for a home. Sometimes there may be a vacancy in on post housing but normally there isnt and there is a long waiting period to get one. I have seen numerous soldiers have to get food stamps to support their family. If you have more than one child and are E-4 or below it will be a struggle for a family living off post.

The medical care isnt great. Its free but I have seen people get various problems after surgeries. One person getting a nerve damaged in her face after wisdom teeth removal which left her face with a permanent droop. I have seen soldiers get misdiagnosed quite often and end up seeking care off post after repeated mistakes. The majority of the time soldiers see a Physician's assistant instead of a doctor, apparently there arnt many doctors in Medical command. The few I have seen are guys who have been in awhile.


The medicine is free but they dont always have what you need or give you the wrong medication. I had pneumonia and they didnt have the right antibiotics to prescribe me, in fact the only thing they had was an antibiotic to treat Anthrax. Luckily I had a civilian doctor employed by the military. She did her best to help me. Another incident was when I was at Fort Hood and some soldiers who worked in the pharmacy gave out the wrong medication due to the fact they had not had any sleep and used various illegal drugs throughout the night before work. Luckily they got caught and were punished.

The dental care is free but they dont do great work either. They have gotten better though. When I first came in I went for a cleaning and some soldier picked at a few of my teeth for about thirty seconds and then said okay were done. When I went to my next duty station I told them about it and they said that was completely wrong. Since then almost all of the dentists and hygienists I have seen are civilians employed by the military. Their work is much higher quality than the military personnel and the same goes for civilian medical personnel.

Then you have the struggle between the Medical personnel and you unit. Your unit especially if its combat arms or military police is not going to want you to go what the army calls "sick call". People in your chain of the command will make descisions concerning your health based on gut instincts. We had a guy in my company who got sick and the unit thought he was malingering. They kept interfering with him seeking medical care. Come to find out the guy had severe cancer. He was hopspitalized as his condition worsened and eventually he died. I dont know if he could of been saved if he had care sooner but well never know. Another great example is the treatment of pregnant soldiers. These females are often placed around hazardous and toxic materials even though the medical personnel order against it. Then the unit will act dishonest about it if confronted. What kind of crap is that? We had a female who had just had a C section. She was on medical leave. The unit pulled her off leave after two weeks. The first day back she was doing PT with us and doing Unarmed Self Defense with the unit. The medics in the unit knew better and didnt say anything. Its a miracle she wasn't hurt.

Now for college. Its not free. They help you pay for it and some fees are waived. If you on active duty some classes and tests are free. The problem with this is your unit who doesnt like to let people go to classes. You may be able to get one class if time permits. If you hope to get a degree while on active duty it takes a long time. One of my platoon sgts had been working on a Bachelors for 8 years.

Again I'm not a democrat or republican. I hate politics. I just think military personnel put up with too much Bull Manure to not get adquate raises.


[edit on 19/5/07 by MikeboydUS]