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Was 'Dulce' a nuclear waste dumping ground?

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posted on May, 17 2007 @ 11:27 PM
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Dulce, New Mexico Revisited - Mysteries Still Remain !

or, Was Dulce a nuclear waste dumping ground?

with final comments by Norio Hayakawa May 17, 2007


There is no substantial, irrefutable, physical evidence whatsoever that there is or has ever been an underground base below the Archuleta Mesa, next to Dulce, New Mexico. The rumors are based on hearsay. I revisited Dulce in late March of this year, 2007, and even then I did not come up with any concrete evidence for it., although my trip's purpose was not to go atop the mesa and look for it. Moreover, I was not logistically prepared for it. Nevertheless I did gather some fascinating anecdotes from the locals this time, as you can read in my March 28, 2007 Report to Jeff Rense:


Dulce New Mexico Revisited - Mysteries Still Remain !!
www.rense.com...


After reading my initial report above, please be sure to read the following important item and my final comments below:


Some researchers have been on the mesa. Here is one report from a well-known researcher who had camped overnight on the Mesa:


"I have been researching the alleged UFO incident near Aztec, New Mexico for almost 20 years. Aztec, New Mexico is only a few hours drive to Dulce, and I decided to see if I could find anything to the 'Dulce Mystery'. In over 176 trips to the Four Corners area from my home in North Carolina, I have had two occasions to go to the top of the Archuleta peak and camp overnight.


I have also found entrances as to where there had been some tunneling done and covered over with gahnite (spray concrete). After doing some research with J. Andy Kissner who at the time was a State Representative for New Mexico, we did find evidence that a mining operation took place in the late '40's that was connected to the Manhattan Project.


Apparently the Atomic Energy Commission was looking for a place to store "waste material" and to hollow out the mountain was a cheaper option than storing it in Los Alamos. The mining operation stopped after a disagreement between State and Federal funding. That's the story we got and I have given you the very condensed version.


Small narrow gauge railroad rails are still left behind as evidence to the mining operation. The tunnel entrances can still be seen on the western slope of the mesa. As you arrive in town, turn left toward the old Gambling Casino. This is before you would make the "s" turn heading toward the Best Western Hotel. Drive down that "new" looking two lane road to where it comes to a "t". You will cross a bridge and an old railroad bridge will be on your right. On your left is the old water tower for the steam engines. Down along the bank is another old bridge that is lying on the banks of the Navajo River. At the "t" in the road, go right and follow the river which will be on your right side. Go to the remains of the old bridge pillars (on your right and an old bridge that goes nowhere). Look up to the north and you can see the old entrance.


Be extremely careful as that land is property of the Jicarilla Apache Reservation and they WILL FINE you up to $10,000 for trespassing. The best way around this is to purchase a fishing license at the Best Western Hotel and will be "safe" to be around the river. Purchase some fishing poles and some bait. The fishin gis great.


I was detained for about 20 minutes back in early 2000. The Police Officers that detained me were Caucasian, not Indian. They were very interested as to why we were walking around the river and taking pictures. We were released after a brief warning.


To get to the top is rather tricky. As you follow the road along the river, you will find a road on your left that will take you toward the top, but the road has washed away. You must bear to the right and cut up through a valley and by-pass the washed out road. This trip is only possible with not only four wheel drive, but a high center vehicle as well. The Hertz Car Rental at the Farmington Airport has high center four wheel drive vehicles.


Once you are on the summit, you are no longer on Indian Reservation. The top of the mesa is owned by the BLM (Bureau of Land Management). It's getting to the top is a little tricky. Please note that at one point you will be crossing over the Southern Ute Reservation. They DO NOT ISSUE crossing permits. You will be trespassing for about 1, 200 feet. This is about the 3/4 mark to get to the top. You will actually cross into Colorado at one point.


Once at the summit, you will see the remains of some mining equipment that was left behind. I don't know or would guess as to a "UFO base". But they sure are sensitive as to who is out walking around there. Mabe the Atomic Energy Commission got their way and they did store nuclear waste in the mountain at one point".


I also recommend you to read the following article:


MORE BIZARRE HISTORY BEHIND DULCE, NEW MEXICO
www.hometown.aol.com...


The following is also a MUST READ:


An interesting background on Hoyt Velarde, former Police Chief of Dulce, New Mexico
www.hometown.aol.com...


And finally,
I, too, leave it open the possiblity (even if it's a remote possiblity) that perhaps the Jicarilla Apache Tribe had been receiving financial compensation for allowing the dumping of nuclear waste in some other possible additional artificial caverns near Dulce, aside from the Archuleta Mesa.


(Check out the Project Gasbuggy of 1967 whereby the U.S. Government did conduct an experimental nuclear explosion about 2 miles under an area about 25 miles south of Dulce, allegedly to ease the flow of natural gas in the area).


This may sound far out, but I have been entertaining the thought that the 'rumors' of Dulce underground 'alien' base may even have been intentionally created as a 'cover story' (perhaps even by the very Jicarilla Apache Tribe themselves) to discredit any public scrutiny into the area.


It is important to bring out the fact that the biggest problem and headache for the military's so-called "Black Projects" programs (various classified special weapons Research, Development and Testing programs) is not the projects themselves but the problem of how to dispose, dump and conceal inevitably high volume of toxic waste products (including nuclear waste materials as well as other highly toxic chemicals and substances). This has always been the biggest headache faced by specific defense contractors involved in such special programs. Within the past decade or so, civilian watchdog agencies such as the Federation of American Scientists have uncovered several illegal dumping incidents of highly toxic chemical materials by some of those programs, including one at Area 51. The question is how widespread is the military's dumping of waste products in remote locations? Were rumors of "underground bases" convenient cover stories concocted to conceal such problems?


Norio Hayakawa



posted on May, 18 2007 @ 04:30 AM
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Hmm,

Good Theory Mr. Hayakawa! I have been following up the toxic waste burning scandle at Groom Lake. I remember the old waste incineration trenches at Area 51. These were phased out of use following the deaths of Robert Frost and Wally Kaza that were dew to toxic exposure. Once they stopped burning the waste, they had to find a secure site to store this waste. It's a good possability that they may have a secret dump site near Dulce New Mexico.

I don't believe there is an ET/UFO base there. However, some kind of toxic waste storage facility sounds reasonable.

Tim


[edit on 5/18/2007 by Ghost01]



posted on May, 18 2007 @ 07:34 AM
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The problem is that first, one has to establish the existance of substantial underground areas to dump any waste, and AFAIK no proof has been presented to substantiate any caverns large or deep enough to put any such waste.

Once that is done then the whole question of Dulce in all its entities can be progressed



posted on May, 19 2007 @ 10:27 PM
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Originally posted by Ghost01
Hmm,

Good Theory Mr. Hayakawa! I have been following up the toxic waste burning scandle at Groom Lake. I remember the old waste incineration trenches at Area 51. These were phased out of use following the deaths of Robert Frost and Wally Kaza that were dew to toxic exposure. Once they stopped burning the waste, they had to find a secure site to store this waste. It's a good possability that they may have a secret dump site near Dulce New Mexico.

I don't believe there is an ET/UFO base there. However, some kind of toxic waste storage facility sounds reasonable.

Tim



Thanks, Tim, for your comments.
I was very hesitant to post this item because it does sound too much of a stretch to hypothesize this scenario.
It's probably my imagination running wild, LOL !!

My main point was, whether Dulce has anything to do with it or not, that the biggest problem or headache with some of the military's Black Projects program has always been the question of how to dispose (dump and conceal, too) the inevitably high volume of toxic chemicals and substances arising from R & D and testing.
Perhaps there may be nothing to the Dulce story.

But here is an interesting news (a 1998 ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL news item) item that I found.
It may have little to do with what we're talking about, but, nevertheless, I found it curious:

LEAKING CHEMICALS SPUR EVACUATION OF FAMILIES - DULCE, NEW MEXICO
www.accessmylibrary.com...

I couldn't access the rest of the article.



posted on May, 20 2007 @ 08:29 AM
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You should take a look at Porton Down in the UK. It manages to dispose of its waste. I think they use very high temperature furnaces for the majority of the stuff and any nuclear waste is disposed of along with the waste from the normal nuclear reactors, which I think is melted into glass units and buried.



posted on May, 20 2007 @ 09:33 AM
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Originally posted by Norio Hayakawa
Thanks, Tim, for your comments.
I was very hesitant to post this item because it does sound too much of a stretch to hypothesize this scenario.
It's probably my imagination running wild, LOL !!


Thank You Mr. Hayakawa! Based on my own research into black projects, it doesn't seem as much of a streach as you might think.

It a well known fact that the Defense Department is one of the biggest producers of Toxic Waste in the USA. Area 51 isn't the only facility that generates toxic materials. Think of other defense related places like the Nevada Test Site, Aberdeen Proving Grounds in Maryland, Rocky Flats and many others where weapons research is done. All of this stuff has to go somewhere!

Tim



posted on May, 25 2007 @ 05:42 PM
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Its very possible, the Waste Isolation Pilot Plant calls for an underground facility simular to Dulce to be created. From the information on the site I cannot find if the facility was ever constructed, but it is rather simular...

Sorry about taking so long...heres the WIPP underground research labs. The site links to various programs and does seem to be rather simular to Dulce in design.

[edit on 25-5-2007 by StandAloneComplex]



posted on May, 26 2007 @ 02:18 PM
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Originally posted by StandAloneComplex
Its very possible, the Waste Isolation Pilot Plant calls for an underground facility simular to Dulce to be created. From the information on the site I cannot find if the facility was ever constructed, but it is rather simular...

Sorry about taking so long...heres the WIPP underground research labs. The site links to various programs and does seem to be rather simular to Dulce in design.

[edit on 25-5-2007 by StandAloneComplex]


What Dulce design?



posted on May, 28 2007 @ 06:30 PM
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Sorry for being a bit brief in my last post, What i ment when I said the base was simular to Dulce in design was that the WIPP underground facility was a multi-layered underground complex. Although this may not be too surprising, I found this while reading through the facilities web-site and found this . The picture on this page shows the basic outline of what the complex looks like. Even if this is completely unrelated to Dulce a few basic things stand out...

1. The fact that the WIPP facility does exist shows that the United States government does have an interest in multi-leveled underground bases.

2. It is possible to build such complexes with current technology. The website also mentions the ablility to use nuclear weapons as mining tools, although it is very unlikely to have occured, Dulce could have been mined out with nuclear weapons and then cleaned out using excavation devices such as large drills.

Even though I do not have any solid proof of Dulce's existance, I think that this facility shows how it could have been made...



posted on May, 29 2007 @ 04:43 AM
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Originally posted by StandAloneComplex
Sorry for being a bit brief in my last post, What i ment when I said the base was simular to Dulce in design was that the WIPP underground facility was a multi-layered underground complex. Although this may not be too surprising, I found this while reading through the facilities web-site and found this . The picture on this page shows the basic outline of what the complex looks like. Even if this is completely unrelated to Dulce a few basic things stand out...

1. The fact that the WIPP facility does exist shows that the United States government does have an interest in multi-leveled underground bases.

2. It is possible to build such complexes with current technology. The website also mentions the ablility to use nuclear weapons as mining tools, although it is very unlikely to have occured, Dulce could have been mined out with nuclear weapons and then cleaned out using excavation devices such as large drills.

Even though I do not have any solid proof of Dulce's existance, I think that this facility shows how it could have been made...


It 'could' have been made very very easily. Underground tunnelling and formation of living working areas is old hat. The point being is WHY? they would wish to build any 'secret base' when there are other, far more secure areas relatively closeby.

I hope to visit the place sometime and take a good look around. I have emailed some people for any info they have but they seem somehow reluctant to even reply, let alone help so one must assume they have no information whatsoever despite what they post.



posted on May, 29 2007 @ 06:25 PM
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The only reason I brought up the difficulty in creating Dulce was due to the size of the base that has been mentioned several times before. Supposidly the base is gigantic and conventional means could not have made it. For this reason I feel that the WIPP projects test of using nuclear weapons to excavate could be a possible explaination for Dulce.


I look forward to hearing any replies you get after E-mailing those in charge of the WIPP project



posted on May, 30 2007 @ 03:28 AM
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Originally posted by StandAloneComplex
The only reason I brought up the difficulty in creating Dulce was due to the size of the base that has been mentioned several times before. Supposidly the base is gigantic and conventional means could not have made it. For this reason I feel that the WIPP projects test of using nuclear weapons to excavate could be a possible explaination for Dulce.


I look forward to hearing any replies you get after E-mailing those in charge of the WIPP project


'The base is gigantic and conventional means could not have made it"??
What on earth makes you say that? Once you have a basic underground shaft or tunnel, it is relatively easy to run stopes etc off of that, by blasting with conventioanl explosives, Ampho or the like.
Ive been in goldmines where there are huge spaces underground. The only problem is getting rid of the spoil. There is also the problem, with underground nuclear explosions of the residual radiation and damage done to the surrounding area.
BUT that isnt the question. The questions is how did all of the weird ideas come about in the beginning.
Taking that it is Indian country I dont think you need to look far to find the origins of any rumours, which could easily have been expanded by the Earhquake, the Nuclear explosion south of Dulce and the underground Natural gas working, add it all up, throw in a few people on certain substances, Add a disgruntled worker from the gas installation that wants to make some money, throw into the pot an old Aviator with a fetid imagination and HEY we have an underground alien base full of weird aliens that eat people !
There is NO evidence of any Alien base.


[edit on 30/5/07 by realyweely]



posted on May, 31 2007 @ 01:57 PM
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Being from Dulce (yes, I grew up there and am a member of the tribe), I can tell a few stories about lights in the sky myself.

If you're wondering where the Jicarilla get the funding for buildings you have to look no further than jicarillaonline.net. We make a lot of money from the oil wells on our land.

When I worked as the business manager for the Dulce School system (feel free to research it) I requested numerous financial docs from the tribe. Tribal members can also request any financial statement from the main offices as it really is 'our money'. Government subsidies from a nuclear waste dump would have definitely stood out.



posted on Jun, 1 2007 @ 03:12 AM
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This is just a thought, but has anyone tried using scanners to pick up any radio signals up there, maybe get some leads?

I'm going up to the SanJuan to do some fishing in June -really I'm going to be fishing, but my curisity is up on this subject. I've got a scanner bank set-up in my vehicle and might make a side trip to see what I can find in Dulce. Any suggestions. I've definetly got the vehicle for the trek to the top of the mesa.

Mr. Hayakawa from one North Carolinian to another, do you think it would be feasible or to my advantage if I used a guilly suit and spent a day or two trying to "scout" out something while having the advantage of concealment - would this even be any advantage for this particular area?

realyweely, if you do a little in depth research not all but some of the nuclear waste from the UK, particularly the weapons are brought over to the US for "Disposal" to a particular NM base



posted on Jun, 1 2007 @ 04:34 AM
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Originally posted by Sloane
realyweely, if you do a little in depth research not all but some of the nuclear waste from the UK, particularly the weapons are brought over to the US for "Disposal" to a particular NM base


Sorry I dont need to do any research. We have sufficient Nuclear reprocessing capability in the UK in that we actually take in Nuclear waste for reprocessing from other countries.
Maybe the old Nuclear weapons were sent to the US as thats probably where the warheads were originally bought from, but we reprocess all our own Nuclear reactor waste as well as that from other countries.



posted on Jun, 4 2007 @ 05:09 AM
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Originally posted by StandAloneComplex
Sorry for being a bit brief in my last post, What i ment when I said the base was simular to Dulce in design was that the WIPP underground facility was a multi-layered underground complex. Although this may not be too surprising, I found this while reading through the facilities web-site and found this . The picture on this page shows the basic outline of what the complex looks like. Even if this is completely unrelated to Dulce a few basic things stand out...

1. The fact that the WIPP facility does exist shows that the United States government does have an interest in multi-leveled underground bases.

2. It is possible to build such complexes with current technology. The website also mentions the ablility to use nuclear weapons as mining tools, although it is very unlikely to have occured, Dulce could have been mined out with nuclear weapons and then cleaned out using excavation devices such as large drills.



Sorry, no trophy for this one!

There a big difference between a multi-level military or defense facility and a toxic waste dumping ground. One (the military base) is meant to be inhabited and defended. It requires a lot of logicstic to maintain and run a military base, do you even have a clue what kind of support staff is required in addition to the soldures?

Second, they don't use nukes for mining! Try dynomite!

Tim



posted on Jun, 4 2007 @ 05:27 PM
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Originally posted by Ghost01
Second, they don't use nukes for mining! Try dynomite!

Tim


Actually the US government did look into the use of nuclear weapons for mining. Project Plowshare was actually conducted during the timeframe that Dulce was constructed...


Even though I do awknowlege the how irrational it would be for the WIPP facility to in fact be the Dulce Facility, I do still believe that the information from WIPP's site is valuable in showing that there is some interest in underground research facilities.

The only difficulty I see in WIPP is the timeframe, the proposial to create the National Underground Science Laboratory occured in 2001. Source

In the end I assume that Project Plowshare is the only thing that could possibly connected to Dulce, even though this base does show some research on underground bases has occured...



posted on Jun, 5 2007 @ 02:28 AM
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I also think there is a valuable place for underground facilities of any kind.

But some people, when they cant see something or are told 'No you cant go down and see whats there', begin, for some reason unknown to me, to make up weird ideas about what goes on underground.

There are a lot of underground bases and research facilities here in the UK, and like Dulce we have the weirdo's who begin to invent "Alien research facilities" then go even further and start inventing 'Greys walking around' and 'Genetic modification of humans' without the slightest proof.

Though after having a poke around it would seem that these people have a financial interest in continuing these wild theories as they sell their videos and books and charge rather high sums to lecture to the 'believers'

One such place in the UK is Peasemore, which a sad chappie called Barry King tells everyone is a joint NSA/Reptilian base, without the slightest shred of proof. He also tells people he has been sent forwards in time.

Its a shame Margaret Thatcher closed down a lot of the Mental Hospitals here in the UK. Care in the community just isnt working.




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